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Should Ski Pole Straps be Used? - Page 7

post #181 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


I respectfully say that it's worked very well for me. YM varies... not unexpectedly though. 

If your DIN is set to industry standards, I agree that there should not be much to worry about. however, for those prefering retention over release,/pre-release, things are a bit different.
post #182 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OnSnow View Post


I understood you and I repeat, I respectfully disagree. The "tuck and roll" techniques are applicable to skiing. I am as expert in those techniques as I am in skiing. I've used them skiing, biking, football, baseball, volleyball, knitting, etc., etc., etc. They do work. Will they prevent all injuries in all situations? Of course not. But, I'm very glad to have those skills in my bag of tricks.
I never knew anyone that would initiate a roll with skis on. If you bindings don't come of then you are done for season. Not to mention how you are going to magage your ski poles with an intentional somersault. You would be putting yourself in a work of potential hurt and injury.


Have you never taken an unintentional tumble where nothing went way wrong? The poles are very manageable.

 

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree. :beercheer:

post #183 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OnSnow View Post


I understood you and I repeat, I respectfully disagree. The "tuck and roll" techniques are applicable to skiing. I am as expert in those techniques as I am in skiing. I've used them skiing, biking, football, baseball, volleyball, knitting, etc., etc., etc. They do work. Will they prevent all injuries in all situations? Of course not. But, I'm very glad to have those skills in my bag of tricks.
I never knew anyone that would initiate a roll with skis on. If you bindings don't come of then you are done for season. Not to mention how you are going to magage your ski poles with an intentional somersault. You would be putting yourself in a work of potential hurt and injury.


Been there, done that, skis did not come off, did two rolls, I remember it well.

 

Last run of the day, a gentleman with whom I was sharing the chair up were debating which run to take.  We finally decided to speed down the front run.  I agreed with him but added that we should make a left turn at the bottom swinging by the lineup just in case we could get a second "last run".   So as not to collide I carved over to skier's left on the far side of the lift.  When I approached the bottom, I thought the other gentleman would be already stopped, since I was skiing more distance (having swung over to other side of the run),  but I was wrong; as I begun my turn to the right I saw him in my peripheral vision on a collision course with me (I would have cut him off had I continued).  I went into full stop mode, and he went by just about a foot ahead of me.  My next thought is I can still make this turn, so I reset the edges and go for it.  However I had swapped to some softer tipped skis (P50 F1s) and I soon realized that instead of digging in, the tip had folded back enough to start losing grip.  I realized that if I continued with that plan I would have become one with the lift tower, but by the time I realized this, all I could do was bail to the outside of the turn.  I bailed, tuck and roll, and roll.  I did end up with some damaged ribs due to my ski pole having an impact, but knees, feet, legs were fine. 


Edited by Ghost - 6/11/15 at 3:05pm
post #184 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post

If your DIN is set to industry standards, I agree that there should not be much to worry about. however, for those prefering retention over release,/pre-release, things are a bit different.

Chart says 8, I ski din 10-13 depending... usually 11. I don't always roll forward. Depends on what's happening. Worst fall this past season was a full on facial body slam. No time to do much of anything when I actually went down. The tuck and roll works better on steep off piste. At certain speeds, you just hope for the best and try to control the slide if you can.
post #185 of 200

Tuck and roll clarification:

 

I had brought up the "tuck" and roll and was specifically referencing a diving forward move for which the tuck and roll has been widely derived. So, perhaps I should have written "dive, tuck and roll". It is also a well known move in football when a runner easily makes it into the end zone absent of defenders. They also use it for any forced falls or dives as is done in other field sports like baseball and soccer. The clip below is a quick baseball example of dive, tuck and roll. You will also see that he intently employs his arms, reaching for the ground with bent elbows, tucking the head then rolling off the shoulders. 

 

Now, if someone wants to either recommend or be recommended to have this move in your snap decision arsenal, good luck to you. I have never seen it done, and frankly, I watch enough video to simply know it is not. I do suppose that a WC skier who finds themselves doing a "superman" diving head first, perhaps from rolling too far forward off a knoll, may benefit from something similar but that is in an entirely different world of physics than 99.9% of all skiers. I would challenge any one to even find a WC youtube video of anything similar to the dive, tuck and roll, as described, as an intentional move to stretch out the impact.

 

Just as long as someone is not letting learning how to fall get in the way of learning how to ski and no one gets hurt with questionable advice, it"s all good.

 

 

 

post #186 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 

Tuck and roll clarification:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why are we arguing about tuck and roll in the ski pole strap thread when MR started a thread dedicated to this other conversation?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

Perhaps we should start a new thread for tuck and roll since this is the new pole thread.  Also be sure to include a poll there.

 

Please continue this debate in that thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post
 

 

Done: Things you can do to reduce the likelihood of injury during a fall

post #187 of 200

In regards to the tuck and roll, I think someone was talking about what to do with the excess strapping after the ski pole straps are adjusted. Personally, I thought someone was talking about making burritos.  

post #188 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 

Tuck and roll clarification:

 

I had brought up the "tuck" and roll and was specifically referencing a diving forward move for which the tuck and roll has been widely derived. So, perhaps I should have written "dive, tuck and roll". It is also a well known move in football when a runner easily makes it into the end zone absent of defenders. They also use it for any forced falls or dives as is done in other field sports like baseball and soccer. The clip below is a quick baseball example of dive, tuck and roll. You will also see that he intently employs his arms, reaching for the ground with bent elbows, tucking the head then rolling off the shoulders. 

 

Now, if someone wants to either recommend or be recommended to have this move in your snap decision arsenal, good luck to you. I have never seen it done, and frankly, I watch enough video to simply know it is not. I do suppose that a WC skier who finds themselves doing a "superman" diving head first, perhaps from rolling too far forward off a knoll, may benefit from something similar but that is in an entirely different world of physics than 99.9% of all skiers. I would challenge any one to even find a WC youtube video of anything similar to the dive, tuck and roll, as described, as an intentional move to stretch out the impact.

 

Just as long as someone is not letting learning how to fall get in the way of learning how to ski and no one gets hurt with questionable advice, it"s all good.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 

Tuck and roll clarification:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why are we arguing about tuck and roll in the ski pole strap thread when MR started a thread dedicated to this other conversation?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

Perhaps we should start a new thread for tuck and roll since this is the new pole thread.  Also be sure to include a poll there.

 

Please continue this debate in that thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post
 

 

Done: Things you can do to reduce the likelihood of injury during a fall


If you would like to carry this over to the other thread I'll respond. Otherwise I'll just let it be in respect for the pole topic. :beercheer:

post #189 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OnSnow View Post
 

 

 


If you would like to carry this over to the other thread I'll respond. Otherwise I'll just let it be in respect for the pole topic. :beercheer:

 

I hear that. I still think that once a thread on ski pole straps passes 150 posts without flushing everything out and evolving to other juxtapositioned subject matter (as this one has) by then may be more the result of a thread gone bad than would be a wandering discussion. Thankfully and in regards to the communal wealth of knowledge here at epic, many threads have the opportunity to demonstrate a wide array of information on one subject matter within a couple of days. Usually, half the posts from late entrants that may be on topic are comments that have already been covered too far back for many to bother to read. 

 

However, the last thing I want to do is throw a monkey wrench in between someone's shell and liner. Personally, I will only hijack a thread if there is a baby in the backseat. 

post #190 of 200

I learned to ski at Alta when attending the U of U and have skied ever since.  Years ago I purchase 2 set of Allsop Shock Absorber poles.  Not only did the release system work like a charm, the shock absorber worked fantastic on hard snow conditions.  I purchase another set of the same poles and used for parts.  I still have a working set and would buy another set if available.  I don't understand why another company has not developed a similar technology.  I found using poles to initiate turns on steep slopes another benefit of using poles with straps.  For those users of strapless poles, have you ever let go of your pole and  had to sidestep back up the slope to get it?  The Allsop Shocks should be in a ski museum as they were the best and safest poles ever make and I have skied for over 40 years.

post #191 of 200
What do they look like?
post #192 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier1000 View Post
 

I learned to ski at Alta when attending the U of U and have skied ever since.  Years ago I purchase 2 set of Allsop Shock Absorber poles.  Not only did the release system work like a charm, the shock absorber worked fantastic on hard snow conditions.  I purchase another set of the same poles and used for parts.  I still have a working set and would buy another set if available.  I don't understand why another company has not developed a similar technology.  I found using poles to initiate turns on steep slopes another benefit of using poles with straps.  For those users of strapless poles, have you ever let go of your pole and  had to sidestep back up the slope to get it?  The Allsop Shocks should be in a ski museum as they were the best and safest poles ever make and I have skied for over 40 years.


Seems like a simpler approach to the shock absorber would be to refine your pole planting technique.

 

For the life of me, I'll never understand why Kerma moved away from their break-away strap. I wonder if it's patented? Seems like this would be a smart upgrade to just about any fixed strap grip. (I'd probably ditch the leather in favor of nylon webbing, or possibly neoprene)

 

post #193 of 200

I had a pair of Goode poles (At least I think they were Goode since I snapped them couple years ago and they're gone ) that had break away snaps but the design where the strap snapped onto the handle was such that it was hell on the ski glove at the web between the thumb and forefinger.  I actually changed the set up and got rid of the release mechanism and fastened the straps directly to the handles.  I loved the poles but didn't like how hard they were on my gloves.   I also like my straps on most of the time but I also usually remove them on lifts.      I have had one  thumb injury in a fall.  That's one  injury  since 1960.  It's unlikely the set up of the break away  straps on the Goode poles would not have released  or prevented my thumb injury.  YM

post #194 of 200

^I had several pair of Goode poles. That damn strap would release at the least convenient times; usually while I was cartwheeling down something steep, forcing me to bootpack or sidestep back uphill to pick up my yard sale. Seems to me they used to snap pretty frequently, but I think that was due more to pilot error than weakness of the carbon. I try not to ski over my poles anymore, and my last set of Kermas lasted me at least a decade.

post #195 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier1000 View Post

I learned to ski at Alta when attending the U of U and have skied ever since.  Years ago I purchase 2 set of Allsop Shock Absorber poles.  Not only did the release system work like a charm, the shock absorber worked fantastic on hard snow conditions. ....The Allsop Shocks should be in a ski museum as they were the best and safest poles ever make and I have skied for over 40 years.
The Allsop shock pole was nice when skiing but near impossible to use for forward propulsion. Had to remove the shock from mine so I could get to the goods. Yes the museum is where they belong
post #196 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post
 

^I had several pair of Goode poles. . Seems to me they used to snap pretty frequently, but I think that was due more to pilot error than weakness of the carbon.

The problem with all poles, aluminum and it's worse with carbon is that once you  get a deep scratch it severely weakens the poles.  I like light poles so they are a little vulnerable to snapping when scratched.  It's like scoring glass to cut it.   YM

post #197 of 200

And hide my sexy wrists?  No chance!  No straps!

post #198 of 200
I could see how they could potentially be dangerous, but I ski a lot of off-trail stuff that leads to flat run outs and traverses. Losing your pole on a traverse is no fun! I've never had a negative experience from falling while wearing them.
post #199 of 200

I learned recently how the proper use of the strap helps prevent thumb injuries, at least relative to using the strap the 'wrong' way. Correct is putting your hand under the loop then grasp the pole and the loop. If when you fall and reach out with your arms to protect yourself, as is human nature, you will likely let go of the pole. When you let go of the pole with the correct strap usage, the pole falls away below your hand and any contact with your hand is without the pole in the way. If you reach into the loop and grasp the pole so the loop is above your hand, the scenario above results in the pole staying in front of your hand so there is the possibility of the pole inflicting damage.

post #200 of 200
I've been strapless for years. I've dropped my pole once that I can think of. I ski people down their stuff all the time for good karma in case I drop them though.
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