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Hard snow options

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

I am a male level 7-8 skier, ski mostly in Europe, 1.82 and 83 kg and I am looking for a hard snow ski to complement my quiver of a 2014 Atomic Automatic (186) and a Fischer Ranger 88 TI (184).

 

In the past, I was on the 2011 Blizzard G-force Supersonic IQ. I really liked the fenomenal grip, the flex and rebound, but not so much the short radius (14,5 m, I was skiing the much too short 167 length):they wanted to turn on a higher frequency than I - I'm not a power skier, not agressive or very energetic either. So I'm looking for a 175-ish Supersonic with a 16-19 m radius, I guess.

 

I don't like heavy metal skis much. I want to be able to bend them, but I like the grip that the Supersonics had. I haven't had any particularly good experience with carbon skis, but those were all allmountain skis that really lacked grip and dampness (2014 Salomon Q98, 2015 Soul 7). Tried the Amphibio-series by Elan too two years ago, wasn't my thing. The same goes for some basalt-layered skis. Am I too picky?

 

I will be demoing in the fall, so I'm just getting a wish list ready. Which skis should be on it? Looking for a 175-ish ski, slight onpiste rocker maybe, radius 16-20 m, preferably with a full woodcore sandwich sidewall construction.

 

Suggestions?

 

Would the Blizzard X-power 810 TI be too much of a power-ski? Or the Blizzard Power 800 S? Loved the Blizzard feel, that's why I want to know. Love Nordica, Fischer and Atomic too, by the way. But then again: almost exclusively skied all-mountain skis the past few seasons.... I really need input.

post #2 of 29

A 173cm Kastle MX83 might fit the bill. I don't know what they sell for in Europe but in North America they sell for about $300 more than other brands.

post #3 of 29

I think the MX83 is a great ski. Surprising turning for it's radius. Def in the ball park of what he's looking for.

It feels no longer than a Blizzard 174cm fwiw despite lengthy discussions.

 

You're going to want metal most likely. Metal does not make a ski stiff in flex necessarily. It makes it torsionally stiff. Some of the stiffest skis ever made had no metal. You also wanted damp and with good edge hold which usually means metal. It does add weight, though some skis can have thin metal and be quite light- first gen Kastle Fx84,94 for example.

Carbon can work if used right. Used wrong it makes the ski twitchy with tips that are too reactive. Plenty of light skis with little to no carbon.
The upshot is the way materials are used matters more than the materials individually.

You're going to have to try stuff.
Dynastar powertrack 79 not a classical ski, you'd have to demo that one.

Dynastar CR 72?

Nordica Fire Arrow 76 pro
Head Rally - a light, easy going ski that surprisingly can handle some high speed edge hold on ice. Maybe KERS works. That was in a 170 and i weigh over 90 kg.it's going to feel quite different than your supersonics. Give it a chance. Has more shape than you want though.
Kastle Mx 78- might be a little beefy but not really if you like th Blizz supersonics. Available a little longer than the Mx83

Volkl Code Speedwall L



I'm not a huge fan of the Blizzard 810 x style skis. They are good skis with great grip but I much prefer the feel of their sandwich style construction skis like the older Magnum ti's.

 

@mogsie is really the one who skis all these things.

post #4 of 29

Another vote here for the Head Supershape i.Rally, 170 cm (red striped Supershapes).  I rented these for six days in Austria, and I liked them so much that I just bought a pair.  Expect to pay about €450--good deals on ebay.de.  They were the best ski I've ever been on for hard pack, and just FUN on soft pack & bumps when I demo'ed a pair at Whistler.  The Head rep says they're the same for '15-'16.

post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

The Rally's radius seems really small. I'm not the slalom kind of guy, more of a mellow GS I think...

post #6 of 29
Quote:

Kastle Mx 78- might be a little beefy but not really if you like th Blizz supersonics. Available a little longer than the Mx83

 

+1

 

I also think that MX78 fits the OP's desired specs of a cheater GS ski. The stated sidecut is 18m, but you can easily bend it into tigther radii.

post #7 of 29
Blizzard R power?
Has variable radius. 15-19m in 174cm.

Fischer Progressor 900 75mm radius about 17-19
Fischer rc4 something. There's a couple. Will be about 68mm underfoot

Nordica Fire Arrow 76 ti- little more shape. 15.5m at 176 Has square tip though.
Stockli: There's something there. Which one? Lol yeah, $$. Could even be the Laser GS which I think is around 18m. Their website isn't helpful.

Quick look here:
http://www.epicski.com/t/133221/2016-frontside-all-mountain-ski-reviews-blizzard-stockli-kastle-head-elan
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post

The Rally's radius seems really small. I'm not the slalom kind of guy, more of a mellow GS I think...

So, I have tons of hours on the Supersonics, so I hear you. I was on the 167s but I am smaller than you, so for me it was more of a mid radius ski. I also like short turns more, it sounds like.

You're correct: the Rally is even turnier, because it's slightly softer.

The kastle mx feel is very different from the blizzards you were on. Quieter, less high-strung, higher proportion of muscle to sinew. I haven't been on the 78, but bet you would like it. Or even the RX if you really want a carver. Can you tell I'm living vicariously here?
post #9 of 29

Stockli Non-FIS GS is 18m I believe, as Tog pointed out. But the OP stated that they are not aggressive nor energetic, so I would definitely rule this ski out as a good option. Perhaps the Head Titan? It has a 16m turning radius in a 177cm and fulfills many of the attributes that the OP was looking for. Agree also with Tog that this poster wants metal based on what they are seeking performance wise. Just my .02. 

post #10 of 29
We are similar in size and level. I just got a pair of Atomic D2 GS at end of season and so far like it. it's 179 with 17m sidecut. Tune with 3/1 and it'll bite even in ice, hard snow is piece of cake.
post #11 of 29

3rd -- or 4th -- endorsement of the Kastle MX 78.  I bought a pair untested last year (quite an investment of confidence), and I've been overwhelmed by how much I like them.  They are powerful, smooth, damp yet light... excellent.  I don't love them as much in soft crud as some folks here do, but for hard snow....hard to imagine better, shy of a full-on race ski.  

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post
 

I am a male level 7-8 skier, ski mostly in Europe, 1.82 and 83 kg and I am looking for a hard snow ski to complement my quiver of a 2014 Atomic Automatic (186) and a Fischer Ranger 88 TI (184).

 

In the past, I was on the 2011 Blizzard G-force Supersonic IQ. I really liked the fenomenal grip, the flex and rebound, but not so much the short radius (14,5 m, I was skiing the much too short 167 length):they wanted to turn on a higher frequency than I - I'm not a power skier, not agressive or very energetic either. So I'm looking for a 175-ish Supersonic with a 16-19 m radius, I guess.

 

I don't like heavy metal skis much. I want to be able to bend them, but I like the grip that the Supersonics had. I haven't had any particularly good experience with carbon skis, but those were all allmountain skis that really lacked grip and dampness (2014 Salomon Q98, 2015 Soul 7). Tried the Amphibio-series by Elan too two years ago, wasn't my thing. The same goes for some basalt-layered skis. Am I too picky?

 

I will be demoing in the fall, so I'm just getting a wish list ready. Which skis should be on it? Looking for a 175-ish ski, slight onpiste rocker maybe, radius 16-20 m, preferably with a full woodcore sandwich sidewall construction.

 

Suggestions?

 

Would the Blizzard X-power 810 TI be too much of a power-ski? Or the Blizzard Power 800 S? Loved the Blizzard feel, that's why I want to know. Love Nordica, Fischer and Atomic too, by the way. But then again: almost exclusively skied all-mountain skis the past few seasons.... I really need input.

 

The mx78 is effectivly a nice option...damp, great snow feel and snow grip, great carving, very good at speed and very smooth everywhere including exiting the turns...the rx and mx83  are  also good options: the mx 83 will be more lively and a better carver imo with a little more energy out of the turn... The rx12 will be an even better powerhouse than the mx78...

 

But since you really liked your Blizzard...(I do too)... Why not stick with Blizzard? In that category, they have everything for everyone...

You want high performance dampness and power? Go with the Power serie; the S model for smaller radius, the G for medium and the R for longer ( 19m for my 181 cm)...

If you want something still high end but a notch under: the Power 800... They all come in 174 cm like you want...

For the X-Power 810, I too prefer the Magnum like my Magnum 8.5... They are still some 174 available on the net...

 

All the skis suggested by Tog could be nice too but I don't like the Rally... And it remind me that I really have to try the Code...

 

Now, I also have another suggestion that I think would be even nice for someone with your specs...The Motive 86... It doesn't have the phenomenal grip of the Blizzard or the Kastle ( mx83 excepted) but still a decent one, with a very nice lively camber underfoot...Great carver that will be nice in most conditions ... A way to describe it is that it is an all mountain carver that will be more damp than your Ranger because of the 2 sheets of titanal, but still be able to do everything your ranger does but better... Why I suggest it? Because it is the lightest metal ski that I ever skied on...and liked! It is a metal ski without the weight ( so it has some of the metal dampness but the pop and liveliness of all wood skis) with an on-piste rocker, full woodcore sandwich sidewall construction and a 17m radius!!! All the red in your post is about the Motive 86...

post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogsie View Post
 

 

Now, I also have another suggestion that I think would be even nice for someone with your specs...The Motive 86... It doesn't have the phenomenal grip of the Blizzard or the Kastle ( mx83 excepted) but still a decent one, with a very nice lively camber underfoot...Great carver that will be nice in most conditions ... A way to describe it is that it is an all mountain carver that will be more damp than your Ranger because of the 2 sheets of titanal, but still be able to do everything your ranger does but better... Why I suggest it? Because it is the lightest metal ski that I ever skied on...and liked! It is a metal ski without the weight ( so it has some of the metal dampness but the pop and liveliness of all wood skis) with an on-piste rocker, full woodcore sandwich sidewall construction and a 17m radius!!! All the red in your post is about the Motive 86...

 

Haha I was actually thinking about getting the Motive 86 TI as my hard snow ski / daily driver (I won't be racing, to be hounest, just cruising at high speeds). I have my Automatics for deep powder and I will use my Ranger 88 TI as a rock ski or put some AT bindings on them for early and late season skiing. Sounds like a plan?

post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post



So, I have tons of hours on the Supersonics, so I hear you. I was on the 167s but I am smaller than you, so for me it was more of a mid radius ski. I also like short turns more, it sounds like.



You're correct: the Rally is even turnier, because it's slightly softer.



The kastle mx feel is very different from the blizzards you were on. Quieter, less high-strung, higher proportion of muscle to sinew. I haven't been on the 78, but bet you would like it. Or even the RX if you really want a carver. Can you tell I'm living vicariously here?

 



I still love my 174cm Supersonics. For my taste the feel is right on the money. The Kastle RX is more damp, the Fischer Progressor 9+ is also a bit numb, Dynastar Speed Course Ti also just misses the magic mark for me. They are all real nice skis but each with a different feel. The Blizzards just have the right ratio of grip, rebound and liveliness for the skiing I do most.

Why not look for a pair in 174cm ! (if you can find some owner that will part with them!!!)
Edited by Rossi Smash - 4/24/15 at 6:18am
post #15 of 29
But if you want a hard snow specific ski, and already have the Ranger, why not go narrow? Don't get the logic of getting another mid-80s ski.

First time around I missed the fact that you like the Blizzard feel, so mogsie's suggestion to try one of their current crop, but in a longer length than your Supersonics, makes sense to me.
post #16 of 29
Rossi you tried the Blizzard R Powers?
While the Motive 86 plan makes sense, it's more mid 80's. I would think it's nice to have something else on the menu.
post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 

Not sure there is any logic. In the fall I know what to demo and I will see if I go narrow or have an other mid 80 with a bit more bite. 

post #18 of 29
Agree, for a hard snow specific ski I'd stay @ 72mm or below. Just does it better with less energy expended.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post
 

 

Haha I was actually thinking about getting the Motive 86 TI as my hard snow ski / daily driver (I won't be racing, to be hounest, just cruising at high speeds). I have my Automatics for deep powder and I will use my Ranger 88 TI as a rock ski or put some AT bindings on them for early and late season skiing. Sounds like a plan?

 

Great plan! Even is you'll have 2 skis in the 80 mm, it will hardly be an overlap as the motive is very different from the Ranger...The AT bindings is a good idea...Could have one pair to sell, pm me if interested...

 

Since you said you were not an energetic, aggressive skier, the motive could suit you better than the more high performance skis...

post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 

@mogsie you skied both Motive 86 TI and the Rangers? Could you elabrate on the differences a bit more?

post #21 of 29
Mogsie you need to get on the Volkl Codes!
Annoyingly it's becoming more difficult to try these hard snow skis. Mantras they practically pay you to try, Rtm's are as easy to find as McDonald's, but Volkl Codes are rare.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post
 

@mogsie you skied both Motive 86 TI and the Rangers? Could you elabrate on the differences a bit more?

Yes I did! Didn't like so much the Ranger 88... tought that I needed more beef in a 88 cm ski... The Ranger has a bigger tip rocker plus a tail rocker; the Motive has a on-piste tip rocker with a flat tail... So the Motive is clearly more piste performance oriented but is still a very versatile all mountain carver... In the Ranger serie, I got more interested by the Ranger 106...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Mogsie you need to get on the Volkl Codes!
Annoyingly it's becoming more difficult to try these hard snow skis. Mantras they practically pay you to try, Rtm's are as easy to find as McDonald's, but Volkl Codes are rare.

You're right! Saw them in only one shop...

post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 

The Rangers have tail rocker? Just checked in my garage, but the only thing is the curved-up tail, last 2 inches or so. Otherwise pretty cambered. The Motives also have little twist at the end of the tail, no?

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post
 

The Rangers have tail rocker? Just checked in my garage, but the only thing is the curved-up tail, last 2 inches or so. Otherwise pretty cambered. The Motives also have little twist at the end of the tail, no?

Hum...I checked them both and I would say that you are right, not much difference here but if you go to there website, they say the motive serie has an all mountain rocker ( tip only) and the Ranger has a freeski rocker ( tip and tail)... If so, the tail rocker of the ranger is very very subtle...

 

http://www.fischersports.com/en/Alpine/Technologies/Highlights/Rocker

post #25 of 29

What are your thoughts on the Nordica Fire Arrow 76 ti skis or the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 ti?  Revviews are fantastic so I am now adding them to my possible front side purchase list for the fall.

post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 

Purchase list? I was just asking for my DEMO list. 

 

Oh well...

post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfsnowgirl View Post
 

What are your thoughts on the Nordica Fire Arrow 76 ti skis or the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 ti?  Revviews are fantastic so I am now adding them to my possible front side purchase list for the fall.

 

The 8.0 ti is a nice hard snow oriented all mountain ski. Also in this category is the Rossi e83 which has become one of my go to New England skis the last few years. Works on all but the firmest snow, bumps and up to boot top snow if you can find it. Very versatile and fun to ski on.

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post
 

 

The 8.0 ti is a nice hard snow oriented all mountain ski. Also in this category is the Rossi e83 which has become one of my go to New England skis the last few years. Works on all but the firmest snow, bumps and up to boot top snow if you can find it. Very versatile and fun to ski on.

 

Thanks I have already demoed and love the Rossi Pursuit HP so just trying to see what other choices I have before I pull the trigger in the fall.  I will check out the Rossi e83.   I think the experience will share too much territory with Kenja.  I am sure its a fabulous ski though.  The Magnum seems impressive with great reviews. 

post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 

It's the Rossi E84 now, isn't it? With a full sidewall too, Improvent, I think.

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