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Help with Booster Strap placement in race boot

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

I had always skied with booster strap in my free skiing boots and I love the feel.  I believe I understand the theory / idea behind it, which is provide progressive flex.

 

I switched to Head Raptor B2 race boots about a month ago and never really bothered to try booster straps on them.  But now that the ski season is over and I am in heavy withdrawal mode, I am thinking about putting booster straps on them for future seasons.

 

The boot itself comes with a booster strap already.  On head's website it stated that the strap was licensed from skimetrix which holds the patents to elastic booster straps.  The flex certainly felt progressive and similar to my previous free skiing boots with booster strap.  So my first question is... will I benefit from a booster strap in addition to the one already on the boot?

 

Assuming that another booster strap is helpful, my next question is where to put it.

 

Option 1:  Wrap around the top of the liner to tighten it around my calf.  Since it's not attached to the shell, I guess it's not really doing anything other than making the liner more snug against my foot... or will this actually do something?

 

 

Option 2:  attach booster strap to the back of the shell, and route the front elastic part above the existing strap like in the first picture in option 1.  I think this would essentially create two booster straps.  What will this do?  Just thinking this through... I should be able to flex the boot from a higher point due to the double strap... more leverage and power?

 

 

 

Option 3:  attach booster strap to back of shell like option 2, route front elastic portion under the boot shell and tighten, then put stock strap over the booster strap and tighten. I am not exactly sure what this will do... elastic flex over elastic flex?

 

 

Thoughts / advice?  Thanks in advance!

post #2 of 26
You're doing a 'Booster squared'. I guess the question is what will it get you? I'd just use the excellent strap you already have that came with your boot and experiment with tension (there's basically a 2:1 on it, so you can pretty much make a turnicate if you want.smile.gif ) and placement. I prefer mine under the shell.
Get the rest of the boot sorted (cuff alignment, then drill the additional screw holes in the spine, and finally any canting, grinding, punching that has to be done. There are a lot of adjustments on the boot that are quite a bit more critical than choosing one of two very functional booster straps IMHO.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

You're doing a 'Booster squared'. I guess the question is what will it get you? I'd just use the excellent strap you already have that came with your boot and experiment with tension (there's basically a 2:1 on it, so you can pretty much make a turnicate if you want.smile.gif ) and placement. I prefer mine under the shell.
Get the rest of the boot sorted (cuff alignment, then drill the additional screw holes in the spine, and finally any canting, grinding, punching that has to be done. There are a lot of adjustments on the boot that are quite a bit more critical than choosing one of two very functional booster straps IMHO.

 

Thanks!  Not sure what it will get me.  Like I said, heavy season end withdrawal, saw the booster strap, and started thinking about it.

 

What do you mean by under the shell?  You run the head stock booster strap under the shell?  I will have to give that a try.  

 

As for the boot itself... I feel that it's pretty well sorted.  After getting this boot, I spent two days skiing with a PSIA L3 who is also a boot fitter.  He would watch me ski, evaluate and listen to my feedback, go to the lodge to modify the boot, repeat.  I assume with his combined experience as instructor and boot fitter, he would have identified boot alignment issues from the way I ski.  In the end all we did were small heel lifts to get my stance just a little forward, but it made huge improvements to my skiing.  

post #4 of 26
Well there you go! I still don't see the need for a second strap though, but no harm in messing around with it. It's already going to be a stiff critter if you get that top pin in. And yes, try the stock booster under the shell. It works well.
post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
How do you get the strap under the shell? Do you make slits in the boot to route the strap?
post #6 of 26

Some times you can tighten the strap before you swing the top of the cuff around to buckle it. that puts the strap under the shell. Don't look at it as inside the shell like your thinking.

 

Sounds like you didn't have a boot fitter fit your boots to you ?

 

My boot fitter removed the stock strap from my Langes and put the Booster Strap where it was.

 

The strap makes the boot feel like it's part of my leg, not somethings that is attached to it.

post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galun View Post

How do you get the strap under the shell? Do you make slits in the boot to route the strap?

I did.




Edited by L&AirC - 4/22/15 at 4:15am
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galun View Post

How do you get the strap under the shell? Do you make slits in the boot to route the strap?


I wouldn't dare. Some stock boosters won't let you do that and if you really want to run it under the shell, that might be a reason to run a booster.

post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post

Some times you can tighten the strap before you swing the top of the cuff around to buckle it. that puts the strap under the shell. Don't look at it as inside the shell like your thinking.

Sounds like you didn't have a boot fitter fit your boots to you ?

My boot fitter removed the stock strap from my Langes and put the Booster Strap where it was.

The strap makes the boot feel like it's part of my leg, not somethings that is attached to it.

Max, there's a large difference in the quality of the stock strap on your boot and that of the Head B2, B3, and Raptor RS 130. The one on the Heads is the real deal. I know it can easily be placed under the shell in the RS 130 and I thought the B2/3 as well, but I could be wrong.

I also wouldn't recommend pursuing Ken's path by cutting the shell though ot might word fine for him. Some shell designs don't allow for the strap to be placed inside the shell at the front of the boot.
post #10 of 26

 

 

 

ORIGINAL HEAD RAPTOR 150

 

You only need one Booster strap and it is designed to go under the shell. I have always used the holes for the stock strap and installed the Booster. I take the stock straps off. I position the Booster where I want it to go so my leg is centered in the strap when tightened. I have someone mark where the holes line up on the strap. I then use a heated awl or ice pick hot enough to pierce the Booster strap and seal the inside of the holes. Replace the retainer and use Loc-tite on the screws. I prefer grinding some shell away to slits as the photos show. 

post #11 of 26

Nice kitchen there, Atomicman. Good pictures of how to do it right also.

post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thank you very much for the feedback.

 

I prefer not doing anything to the shell.  I imagine a lot of R&D dollars had been invested into the design so I certainly don't want to mess with it.  I was asking about slits because it's impossible to stick the entire strap between the liner and the boot without slits.  Now that I see more explanation and pictures, it makes much more sense.  

 

Atomicman, thanks for the pictures.  I can see the similarities in my boot and understand exactly what you mean.  In my boot the strap is much thicker, the mount position is probably a little lower, and I think the side of the shell (where you did grinding) goes higher.  So I would need to grind a lot away.

 

I also really like the stock strap design.  Like markojp said, it's 2:1 and I love having the leverage to crank it down.  And from skiing this boot (even with the strap outside the shell like I had been doing) the flex feels very progressive so it's definitely incorporating the elastic strap patent from skimetrix into the overall design. 

 

How about this:  shove foot into boot, crank down power strap against liner tongue, spread "wings" of the boot and push the booster strap as far down as possible, close "wings" over booster strap, buckle.  It looks like this.  One side sits higher than the other because of the 2:1 leverage buckles (on the right side of the picture) - I can't get those buckles inside the shell..  But thinking through how the booster strap is supposed to work, it should be ok?

 

 

Another question... What will two booster straps do?  Thinking this through... when I flex, the leverage and force goes to the first (top), so the tension on the second one (bottom) becomes irrelevant because it comes "loose" when I load the first strap.  Am I correct?

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 

Nice kitchen there, Atomicman. Good pictures of how to do it right also.

 

Thanks MC! :D
post #14 of 26

Just so everyone is aware, I did call Solamon ahead of time and discussed this with them.  They said it wouldn't void the warranty unless where I modified it was directly affected by the modification.  I also talked to the bootfitter about it and he didn't seem to have an issue.

 

I did sort of "dry fit" it best I could first.

 

I would bet more money goes into designing it to be simple than the R&D of the booster strap placement and whether you put it over or under the shell.  For every 100 boots they sell there are probably less than 10% being modified.

 

Think about what a bootfitter does to the boot and that is way more invasive than a little notch.

 

I am however the proud owner of a T shirt that claims "I void warranties" so consider the source.

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galun View Post
 

Thank you very much for the feedback.

 

I prefer not doing anything to the shell.  I imagine a lot of R&D dollars had been invested into the design so I certainly don't want to mess with it.  I was asking about slits because it's impossible to stick the entire strap between the liner and the boot without slits.  Now that I see more explanation and pictures, it makes much more sense.  

 

Atomicman, thanks for the pictures.  I can see the similarities in my boot and understand exactly what you mean.  In my boot the strap is much thicker, the mount position is probably a little lower, and I think the side of the shell (where you did grinding) goes higher.  So I would need to grind a lot away.

 

I also really like the stock strap design.  Like markojp said, it's 2:1 and I love having the leverage to crank it down.  And from skiing this boot (even with the strap outside the shell like I had been doing) the flex feels very progressive so it's definitely incorporating the elastic strap patent from skimetrix into the overall design. 

 

How about this:  shove foot into boot, crank down power strap against liner tongue, spread "wings" of the boot and push the booster strap as far down as possible, close "wings" over booster strap, buckle.  It looks like this.  One side sits higher than the other because of the 2:1 leverage buckles (on the right side of the picture) - I can't get those buckles inside the shell..  But thinking through how the booster strap is supposed to work, it should be ok?

 

 

Another question... What will two booster straps do?  Thinking this through... when I flex, the leverage and force goes to the first (top), so the tension on the second one (bottom) becomes irrelevant because it comes "loose" when I load the first strap.  Am I correct?

Now you are being a bit ridiculous! The bit of grinding...It does not take much, you just do just enough for the strap to get through makes NO difference in how the boot skis..   And it doesn't look to me, once the Booster is connected to the OEM mounting point, that you are gonna have to grind much at all. And NO your shell does not look any different (maybe minimally) from mine height wise. The biggest deal is making room for the Booster Buckle to close. But still minimal. 

 

If you don't put the Booster under the shell it is pretty much useless. You may as well not have the elastic. 

 

And 2 straps is just totally superfluous. :rolleyes 


Edited by Atomicman - 4/22/15 at 2:23pm
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galun View Post
 

Thank you very much for the feedback.

 

I prefer not doing anything to the shell.  I imagine a lot of R&D dollars had been invested into the design so I certainly don't want to mess with it.  I was asking about slits because it's impossible to stick the entire strap between the liner and the boot without slits.  Now that I see more explanation and pictures, it makes much more sense.  

 

Atomicman, thanks for the pictures.  I can see the similarities in my boot and understand exactly what you mean.  In my boot the strap is much thicker, the mount position is probably a little lower, and I think the side of the shell (where you did grinding) goes higher.  So I would need to grind a lot away.

 

I also really like the stock strap design.  Like markojp said, it's 2:1 and I love having the leverage to crank it down.  And from skiing this boot (even with the strap outside the shell like I had been doing) the flex feels very progressive so it's definitely incorporating the elastic strap patent from skimetrix into the overall design. 

 

How about this:  shove foot into boot, crank down power strap against liner tongue, spread "wings" of the boot and push the booster strap as far down as possible, close "wings" over booster strap, buckle.  It looks like this.  One side sits higher than the other because of the 2:1 leverage buckles (on the right side of the picture) - I can't get those buckles inside the shell..  But thinking through how the booster strap is supposed to work, it should be ok?

 

 

Another question... What will two booster straps do?  Thinking this through... when I flex, the leverage and force goes to the first (top), so the tension on the second one (bottom) becomes irrelevant because it comes "loose" when I load the first strap.  Am I correct?

 

 

Galun, see those dotted lines on the tongue? Those are 'cut' guides... folks modify the height of the upper shell  if needed. Everyone's mileage varies, particularly with plug boots.

post #17 of 26

OK, just for a change (:D) i will give an alternative view.

 

My personal preference is to have the booster strap OUTSIDE the shell.  For me this helps me get the progressive flex I like without having to crank down on the top buckle and also keeps the whole inner/outer moving as one.  

 

I just got a new pair of Redster 150 WC to replace my Atomic RT Ti and skied them at the weekend .  The first day I hadn't had time to soften them or replace the stock powerstrap with the Booster. (The atomic strap is more like a conventional powerstrap).  The whole boot just felt too inflexible and "ON/OFF" for me.  Next day I had the booster fitted and it worked a whole lot better, able to get the progressive feel i like to make the ski do what i want.  I still need to soften them off a bit,  I could live with them on the WC slalom ski but on a GS ski I couldn't get as much feel as i like, particularly on extension and transition.

post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 

I think my questions comes a bit from ignorance from how a boot is really supposed to work... I am just started in getting really interested in the theory part of things.

 

Why will grinding away some plastic (on the side or cut on top) not affect the flex of the boot?  Getting what I think is conflicting information in the same thread and thus confused... markojp recommend not to cut slits.  L&AirC recommended slits and loved it. Atomicman ground instead of cut slits.  ScotsSkier recommends outside the shell.  Help! :D

 

I do think I understand the theory to connect the back of the boot to the tongue of my liner (instead of around the shell).  I know my personal preference will be against the liner (instead of around the shell like I had been doing) because I do feel some excess space and strapping around the liner eliminated that space.  Really wish there is more time in the season to test it out...  Anyways, the question is how to achieve it in this boot without affecting the flex or other parameters.

post #19 of 26
Atomicman is correct Booster Strap is designed to go inside the front of boot shell and cinch up against the tongue of the liner (otherwise no benefit or progressive forward flex). Just look at all the World Cup racers who are using booster strap inside front of boot.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galun View Post
 

I think my questions comes a bit from ignorance from how a boot is really supposed to work... I am just started in getting really interested in the theory part of things.

 

Why will grinding away some plastic (on the side or cut on top) not affect the flex of the boot?  Getting what I think is conflicting information in the same thread and thus confused... markojp recommend not to cut slits.  L&AirC recommended slits and loved it. Atomicman ground instead of cut slits.  ScotsSkier recommends outside the shell.  Help! :D

 

I do think I understand the theory to connect the back of the boot to the tongue of my liner (instead of around the shell).  I know my personal preference will be against the liner (instead of around the shell like I had been doing) because I do feel some excess space and strapping around the liner eliminated that space.  Really wish there is more time in the season to test it out...  Anyways, the question is how to achieve it in this boot without affecting the flex or other parameters.

 

 

I like what A-man has done to accomodate his booster... will effect the boot flex less. Top front of the cuff gets cut according to the anatomy of the user... tib fib length, etc... Not necessary, but race boots are made to accept a good deal of modification while minimizing negative structural impacts on performance. 

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galun View Post
 

I think my questions comes a bit from ignorance from how a boot is really supposed to work... I am just started in getting really interested in the theory part of things.

 

Why will grinding away some plastic (on the side or cut on top) not affect the flex of the boot?  Getting what I think is conflicting information in the same thread and thus confused... markojp recommend not to cut slits.  L&AirC recommended slits and loved it. Atomicman ground instead of cut slits.  ScotsSkier recommends outside the shell.  Help! :D

 

I do think I understand the theory to connect the back of the boot to the tongue of my liner (instead of around the shell).  I know my personal preference will be against the liner (instead of around the shell like I had been doing) because I do feel some excess space and strapping around the liner eliminated that space.  Really wish there is more time in the season to test it out...  Anyways, the question is how to achieve it in this boot without affecting the flex or other parameters.

 

 

By the way I have been using Boosters for close to 20 years

 

From The booster Strap Official Site!

 

The BOOSTER STRAP should be routed outside the rear spoiler and inside the plastic shell up against the tongue in front. The elastic is then stretched about an inch.

If on your very first turn you don’t notice a dramatic difference in ski response, the BOOSTER STRAP is too loose or installed incorrectly. On the other hand if, after a few turns it feels like something is pushing you backwards the BOOSTER is too tight. Keep in mind that as in any sport your skill level improves with experience so your BOOSTER setting may vary with time. Adjust to your skill level.

Note: On boots with a high shell in front, the elastic portion will be behind the shell in front.

It is recommended the Velcro(tm) strap be removed as it is no longer necessary or desirable.

post #22 of 26

See the red line?  You should be able to cut from there up without affecting forward flex.  See the buckle?  The white part above and below is what is really holding the boot closed.  I use the slot method because I like the lateral integrity and it's easier. If I were to cut away more, it would look more like Aman's.  I did my last pair of boots that way.  I works very well but I needed more depth this time (different boot) to keep the strap from riding up.  I like things to stay put!  I assure you, boots are pretty tough and as pointed out, ready for modification.

 

 

post #23 of 26

You don't need to cut the front of the cuff at all.

 

Just grind only enough of the side of the shell to route the strap against the liner. 

 

Cutting at that red line is overkill and I believe would decrease the leverage you can apply to the front of the cuff. The higher up the leg the cuff goes the more effect lower leg movement has on pressure to the cuff.

 

The reason I ground more on the lateral side of both boots is to accommodate the Booster Strap buckle. . The buckle always goes to the lateral side of the boot, not the medial side.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

 

 

By the way I have been using Boosters for close to 20 years

 

From The booster Strap Official Site!

 

The BOOSTER STRAP should be routed outside the rear spoiler and inside the plastic shell up against the tongue in front. The elastic is then stretched about an inch.

If on your very first turn you don’t notice a dramatic difference in ski response, the BOOSTER STRAP is too loose or installed incorrectly. On the other hand if, after a few turns it feels like something is pushing you backwards the BOOSTER is too tight. Keep in mind that as in any sport your skill level improves with experience so your BOOSTER setting may vary with time. Adjust to your skill level.

Note: On boots with a high shell in front, the elastic portion will be behind the shell in front.

It is recommended the Velcro(tm) strap be removed as it is no longer necessary or desirable.


Come on A'man, you should know by now that I don't read instructions...:)

 

Yes, I am aware of what the site says, I am also aware of what works fro me.  I have tried it inside and didn't like it.  For me, it works best outside, keeps the whole inner/outer/shin as a single unit and gives me direct response and a more even flex.  But that is just me!   

 

i actually followed the lasts sentence (bolded) and adjusted based on experience and skill level...:)

post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 


Come on A'man, you should know by now that I don't read instructions...:)

 

Yes, I am aware of what the site says, I am also aware of what works fro me.  I have tried it inside and didn't like it.  For me, it works best outside, keeps the whole inner/outer/shin as a single unit and gives me direct response and a more even flex.  But that is just me!   

 

i actually followed the lasts sentence (bolded) and adjusted based on experience and skill level...:)  They were talking about how tight you pull the strap not where you place it! :D

I wasn't directing this towards you Ray,  sorry.... quoted the wrong posts. although sometimes chrome does not work well with Epicski , some weird stuff happens. 

 

I have tried it both ways, Way more effective and progressive inside the cuff for me! 

post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

You don't need to cut the front of the cuff at all.

 

Just grind only enough of the side of the shell to route the strap against the liner. 

 

Cutting at that red line is overkill and I believe would decrease the leverage you can apply to the front of the cuff. The higher up the leg the cuff goes the more effect lower leg movement has on pressure to the cuff.

 

The reason I ground more on the lateral side of both boots is to accommodate the Booster Strap buckle. . The buckle always goes to the lateral side of the boot, not the medial side.

 

I agree.  I was just trying to point out what could be done without affecting flex.

 

To the highlighted part -

 

Au contraire mon fraire!

 

I have mine on the medial side.  Not by choice but by comprimise.  I also have Hotronics.  On the back of the boot the chair lift hits them.  Front of the boot an SL gate can get them.  Inside (medial) seemed like the batteries would smack together.

 

I put the batteries on the lateral and the buckles on the medial.  Yes it looks bassakwards but the boot can't tell the difference.  You do need to swap the left and right around and flip them over.

 

It's been two seasons and has continued to work great for my daughter and I.

 

Ken

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