- 3,186 Posts. Joined 10/2012
- Location: Hamilton MT
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i'm sure Bode watches video all the time. but probably less than other WC racers. he watches all of his bad@ss wins and winning Kitzbuehl skiing off the fence and dropping a ski and still almost finishing, and doing a heli off a jump after missing a gate. just showing his kid/wife/friends what the American GOAT did in his prime.
seriously. I bet Bode watches video to see lines, areas where he felt slow or fast and what he might do differently. but i haven't seen any evidence that he obsesses over spine angles, hip rotation processes, etc. -- if someone can find some media showing such i'm happy to stand down.
my point is that I imagine Bode would read this post and think we're all looking at these things too microscopically. that speed is found on this hill through finding your flow, figuring out how to get your skis to run, keeping them running, being quiet, not being too mechanical, etc. -- in other words, he looks nothing like the other guys (who all look the same), is wild and unconventional (like Klammer!) and yet is the fastest guy.
so let's all take some of these basic ideas, put our protractors (and arguments) away and try them all on the hill!!!
as a bonus, here's Bode at Kitzbuehl '08 DH (won)
i imagine him watching this and thinking the following:
00:16 - great skid turn, kept a high line, all the other suckers went low
00:29 - woooaaahhh, did you see that!! i skied off the fence! was a bad man in '08...
00:55 - nice job absorbing those rollers
1:12, 1:32 and 1:37 - sweet, quiet, carved turns, riding them out on the tails for more power
the other guys are focused on staying in their tuck the whole way, i'm keeping my body open in order to really focus on maintaining quiet, tracking, fast skis
thanks Zentune. i actually kind of figured that (maybe a bit late). but that's why i'm pushing the point a little bit. not to say that coaching/biomechanics are useless but letting kids/students/amateurs be free and find their own way is useful, too.
here's an analogy. people ask Jack Nicklaus all the time what they should tell/teach their kids. he says to encourage them to hit the ball as hard and far as they can and not worry about technique. later, you can refine the technique. but without figuring out a way to generate clubhead speed, they'll never be great, maybe very good, but not great.
so, technique and instinct/finding your own way/what works for you both have a place.
good article and recent. kind of what i was getting at. works for Bode b/c he's Bode but think finding your own way can help all.
have a great weekend all!
Bruce Lee was a great proponent of finding your own way, but let's not forget even Bruce had to start somewhere (Wing Chun in his case).
Once you get going you can expand and explore, but you need to be skiing at a half decent level first, or your going to be learning the hard way and it will take longer.
Raz : gute Absicht mensch - bitte no talk tip lead too much - totaal shlechte understand .. you say Teknikal event - ok code : Slalom
#1 SLALOM SKIER History USA: Bode Miller - he change Slalom till all copy HIS LINE...He find optimal linie - Kaiser Line-Finder
Tip Lead Kaiser... Tip Lead not issue -
TDK6 give perfekten explanator:
The reason you have to come up and over to get into the next turn has nothing to do with tip lead. Wahrheit! It has to do with how quick or slow your transition is. In SL you typically go from apex to apex very quickly. Genau! Pressure to pressure. Inbetween your turns you float. While in GS and speed events its more usual that you spend more time inbetween gates and have to come up and forward during transition in order to stay balanced in the for/aft plane. Gravity is constant for all diciplines. Its basic math.
Tip lead, as pointed out by Oldschoolskier is a necessitie due to the mechanical limitations of our body parts as we incline. OLDSKOOLSKIE ist richtig Basic rule, the more we incline the more tip lead. PHYSICS - Tog say , you look down...
Excessive tip lead is what we should be worried about. Or the timing of tip lead. Tip lead should (ist = is) be coupled to the ammount of inclination and tipping. Edge angles. Excessive tip lead can typically be seen by recreational skiers carving on a groomer with small to moderate edge angles, scissoring, inclining and being in the back seat.
How you say - warum so stubborn ? so many..
Mik Shiff talk "move uphill foot under downhill boot"..Shiff mean : alles helfen hufte nach vorne - help hip go FORWAARD is all.. is gutted move of course...
See Bode - he change world Slalom fur ever...
High angle you like.TDK tell UP - look up - I copy ein box: hohere winkel i.e. higher angle , bigger tip lead..
Yes, even a better way to say number 4. I think you are right that we do and would see more "natural" tip lead in faster wider arced turns and yet, still, less is more.
I think, over all, it is best not to consider reducing tip lead so much as to simply incorporate the correct inside fore/aft joint angle flexion into your skiing. Gut genau assuage - how you say ACCURATE o keep the inside foot back in order to competently pressure it into and throughout the turn simply requires acute forward angles at the ankle, knee and hip. Even more simply put, inside leg flex. Leading with the inside half and promoting the turn with inside leg flexion is a path that I believe will work very efficiently for many expert skiers. Where the outside half in the turn is the brawn of the operation, it is the inside half that is the brains. Nein - ist exaggerate..inside ski haufig spektator in uber high velocite turn apex..
You're criticising a video of me from 2 seasons ago unrequested? That's in poor taste. Everyone here is at a different point on a development curve - and many of us started late and spent far fewer hours on snow than the WC skiers. When you denigrate the part time skiers here, it makes you an ass.
edit: If only world cup skiers were allowed to teach, we'd lose 95% of instructors--and if you think new skier adoption is bad now, it's pretty obvious the entire industry would collapse under that strain. Not everyone needs a world cup instructor.
From your posts, I see you've added 0 value to this community... so I have to ask, why are you here?
Mein Gott..YOUR VIDEO ! ! Pardon, Many Pardon, me bad mistake..sich entschuldigen...sie anfanger sind..you beginner...very very gut beginner...ich uber sorry..you uber über hart arbeiten...keep up...keep up...gut hard worker..you now intermediate..So very very sorry...me find video think Canada instruktor who look like hold 'ball' hold fett baby..bitte such enstschuldigung deep ... embarasssed ... (Razie teach use image..see I lerne !! )
Metaphor_From your posts, I see you've added 0 value to this community... so I have to ask, why are you here? Maybe sie need brille so you watch Bode, Aksel, Marcel, SVERRE Liliequist, Sato, KSIA-CSIA .... CRUDOLOGY have gut lesson fur dich fur all...help open mind augen der menschen (Open mind, Open eyes) - maybe many have less to say more to learn..Kapiert
tot auf ! volles langes haare..
Mon dieu, Meine Gott, meinen arsch in einer stich..hard work, pole plant hard gut ski green slope, push gene blau (so go blue0, nach dem roten (go red), carve bowl Whistler, carve Spanky (Blackcomb)
Zeuge: ich fand groBe video fur instruktor, v gut explain fortplan, carve target, she ski beautiful, change show, relax move , uber uber gut student, inspire many student, she improve every time ein film, cool coo video
Ski wie diese, superb teknik, Körper und geist, tip lead nein question, tip lead happen natural , hup-und-forwaard, Canada ski
It looks pretty clean to me. Very energetic, super floating from the previous turn, getting the skis max to the side, v gut. v gut.
What I see in the first turn or two is the skis may overturn a bit at the top of the turn. But in a very clean way - and that's why some get to the world cup while we don't :)
She is skiing very dynamic and when the skis are so unloaded at the top of the turn, especially in some soft snow, it's easy for them to oversteer a bit. I first wrote "skid" but really it's more proper to call this "oversteer" i.e. like you'd call a car "oversteering" vs "understeering". She is well countered for how dynamic the turns are, carries the flex across the transition and that also contributes to the skis snapping across quickly at the top of the turn, as she quite athletically rolls the ankles quickly - by the apex she's already hip to snow.
Look at the normal speed, to see the timing - that's clean carving. She is getting the skis a lot to the side and combined with the quick tipping and the tension from counter, the skis could easily oversteer there. In some ways, a good thing.
If you compare with a "de-tuned" execution, you will see one cause of that - look at the dynamic way she ends the turn compared to the quite passive one below - she has less time than he does. You could call them "race mode" and "demo mode". I'm guessing some would call that "hup and forward" but I don't think I quite like that label .
Anyways, I have a few more theories on those :) That part of the turn has been a big mystery for me for a long while, thought about it and researched it long and hard.
In a word - I don't see any sliding to the side. it's just the way the skis have to snap around
p.s. thank god neither of them is skiing some steep powder instead - we'd only see like a big puff of powder, instead of refined turns like these eh?
100% with you. NO redirection. I knew when it was played at normal speed it would look complelelty different!
I think we are seeing Tina's tail pushing a little snow as the shovel bends/initiates carving while the tail has yet to have achieved the same bend and follow through. The flat tail is slapping the snow right before full engagement.
I suppose we wouldn't be seeing stivots outside of a race course short of a drill or two. Unless, of course, you are being a wuss and backing down from that perfectly welcoming line you chose.
So people, talk to me about the sideways travel Tina does with her skis making no change in the direction they are pointed in those first 4 frames.
The skis are skidding sideways, and they must be traveling downhill as well. They have to be skidding, since she travels to our left and the skis do not change the direction they are pointing in.
If they were tracking instead of skidding sideways, then she would still move to the left but the skis would begin to point more downhill, implying that the travel is in a curve in the direction the skis are pointing. But the fact that there is no change in the direction the skis are pointed means they are moving against the direction they are pointing; they are skidding. Maybe it's not technically a stivot. But there's skidding going on.
By frame five, the skis are decidedly pointing in the new direction. Her hip has dropped lower. The skis are rising onto higher edges. Her torso has turned downhill. The skidding is over.
These turns looked odd to me when I first saw the video, so I kept stopping it to watch the turns in stop-action. I can see sideways sliding in each turn, followed by an almost instantaneous shift into a super-fast direction change.
I'm not used to seeing racers do this, so I'm wondering what's going on. Maybe it's just normal and I don't know it.
That's what I've been seeing (in red).
I think you're saying it's not a stivot because a stivot would be a twist of the skis against the direction of travel while they are light, followed by engagement.
She clearly isn't twisting the skis.
It's just that she's unweighted after releasing and sliding across the surface for a bit before engaging. Right?
Idk what this word means, but I know that her legs extending through the top part of the turn, which @LiquidFeet shows in her photo montage, doesn't add much pressure to the skis. Just enough to keep them bent in order to get them turning while on edge.