or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › 2014/2015 Dalbello Panterra 120 and 100 Boots
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

2014/2015 Dalbello Panterra 120 and 100 Boots

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

There are a few comments sprinkled around in different threads on these boots, but I'm hoping to learn a little more from folks who actually have and ski them and/or bootfitters who have worked with them. I'm intrigued by some of the features - front buckle "variable fit" (last width), adjustable internal heel lift, solid heel retention with the second (from top) buckle - but am also wondering about the general quality, flex and performance of the boot.

 

Quick background on me - 6' 2", 180 lb, like to (try to) ski everything somewhat aggressively - on and off piste, bumps, powder when available. I have a wide forefoot with high instep and narrow heel, and have been in a 27.5/317 Head Vector LTD with 103 last and stock liner for the past five years. It's worked well but is pretty worn at this point, so just starting to search for new boot options. I have a bootfitter I work with but he's not with a shop now, so if I find a boot that seems appropriate for me and verify shell fit I can go to him for alignment, shell mods, liner baking, etc. (Yes I've asked for his opinion but would like to get as many as I can.)

 

If you can suffer through the bad audio mix here's a quick overview of the 100 and 120 (not interested in the 90)...

 

 

And here are links with more specific info...

 

http://www.summitonline.com/dalbello-panterra-100-ski-boots-2015/352254P.html

 

http://www.summitonline.com/dalbello-panterra-120-ski-boots-2015/352093P.html

 

Some questions...

 

I don't anticipate doing any heavy duty touring, but I do have gear and if the chance presents itself might do some up and down skinning/skiing on occasion, so the walk mode could be useful. I have read though the mechanism is plastic and perhaps might be a weak link. Any comments on that?

 

If I could actually get out and ski in a variety of boot models I might be able to give a more informed opinion about what flex is right for me, but that isn't really an option for multiple reasons. I really only know the Vectors I have been in have generally been comfortable (after a lot of punch/alignment work) and worked well for me in a variety of conditions, and I have them set up with the flex bolts so they have an advertised 110 flex. Here's a link to those boots...

 

http://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-ski-boots/head-vector-ltd.aspx

 

I guess reasonable to suspect they have gotten softer over time, so I'm wondering if the Panterra 100 might be a suitable flex, or if I pursue one of these if the 120 would be better?

 

I did duck into a shop recently and try on a few pairs of Head and Fischer boots to check shell and general fit, and looked at some others on the wall. (I would have considered buying there, but didn't find anything that fit well.) I must confess the perceived quality of the boots generally did not impress me - the shell plastic seemed thin, the buckles weakly constructed. I know heavier doesn't necessarily mean better, but the new stuff just struck me as, well ... chintzy.

 

I'm trying to keep an open mind, and am here asking, so would appreciate hearing what others think about the general quality of boots these days, and the Panterra's in particular.

 

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

post #2 of 16

Have had these on in the shop, have owned several Dalbellos with same last. In general, work well for narrower heels and normal front feet, but they still don't provide enough toe box or width across the 5th metatarsal, so if you have longer toes or a wide forefoot, OK with mods, but don't expect great. Not sure about whether they come with the ID liner, but order it anyway. Significantly better than the factory liner.

 

Also, keep in mind that cabrios like this are aimed at freestyle, bump, soft snow skiing. At which the design excels. Ice or hardpack, not so much. So maybe you need to think about where you ski and what you favor. 

 

IME, boots have gotten better in the past 5 years, both in terms of lasts and quality of buckles, etc. Cannot speak for Fischers, but I nearly got a pair of Head Raptors and didn't see any issues with quality. Heads are a widely respected and highly popular brand among better skiers. Surprised if you've had issues, but obviously anything's possible. I wonder if your problem is the width; these are meant for really wide feet. If you don't wear a D or E street shoe, suspect now that the liner's packed out, they've gotten sloppy.

 

Finally, boots don't soften up with age. In general, they get "bigger" as the liner packs out, and also firmer for the same reason; less give in the foam. But the shells are good for years and years unless you leave 'em in the sun every summer. At your size, a 100 flex seems a little low (my wife skis a 100), you might think about a 110-120. 

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

Beyond, appreciate your comments. I have a pretty wide forefoot, (wear a size 10 1/2 4E New Balance tennis shoe), and needed that wider last the Head Vector's provide. Being out west not much real ice, but do get firm-ish groomers from time to time throughout the season, and I like to ski them aggressively with more carving-oriented skis, but also like all the other stuff the mountain has to offer, so am looking for boots that'll play well everywhere.

 

Appreciate the feedback on the Panterra liner - I am aware of Tru-Fit vs I.D. Will keep in mind.

 

I've been happy with my Head Vector LTD's, and feel like they're made very well. I slip dryers in after every time out skiing, so they're dry and warm when I go out again, and they are always dried out thoroughly and stored inside the house off season - never left in sun or warm environments for any length of time. No manufacturing quality issues with the Head's, just as I said thought maybe they're getting a little beat/worn after 5 years. The power straps could stand replacing, and the liners have packed out a bit for sure. I spoke with Intuition a while back and then picked up a pair of size 27 Intuition MV Luxury liners off eBay for a good price. Still in box, but may try them in the Vector's, probably get them baked in a shop or with my bootfitter friend and check alignment, etc again then if I go that way.

 

I've also been reading up on the Lange SX 120, seems like that may potentially be an option for me as well.

 

Have never been in a cabrio, so have no idea how it feels compared to what I'm used to. I wish it were easier to demo boots, but since I need shell mods and alignment tweaks I'm not an "out of the box" kinda guy. (Can't really "demo" boots on the slopes anyway, I guess.) Can't date, have to get married to find out if things will really work out.    :-(     ;-)

 

Thx again for the feedback.

post #4 of 16

Glad it helped. You'll love the Luxury's. They'll feel pretty thick on the sole for a while, then pack down nicely; you may not need an insert at first.

 

Cabrios have a very different feel then two piece boots; easier to flex forward and less "progressive," meaning that two piece boots have a forward flex that increases as you bend and open up the boot halves, cabrios far less so, more constant feel. Cabrios IMO are better at absorbing shocks like you get in bumps, air, and heavy crud, but less precise in sending force to your edges. For freestylers and backcountry types out west, a superior solution IMO. 

 

But I can recommend the SX120's enthusiastically as an all-mountain boot for everywhere. I race a bit, so went with the RS's, and supplement with LV XT's for out west. But if I had to pick one boot to rule them all, it would be the RX. Only issue is that even with their last, you'll need to get the fronts opened up on the side a bit if you're an E. 

 

Good luck! 

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 

So you definitely think a bootfitter could accommodate my wide forefoot in the 100mm last RX 120's? How's the heel on the Lange's? Mine's pretty narrow.

 

Also, what do you think of the stock liners that come with the RX 120's and SX 120's?

 

Thx.

 

 

EDIT: You're not alone in thinking highly of the SX 120...

 

http://www.bootfitters.com/reviews/2013-14/lange-sx-120


Edited by jc-ski - 4/13/15 at 4:27pm
post #6 of 16

I just bought a pair of the Panterra 120's with the ID liner. My previous boot was the Fischer Progressor 120's. Both boots have very good heel retention with a narrow heel pocket. The Fischer is a lighter boot, which surprised me, for the supposed marketing of the Panterra as a tour friendly boot. As anyone who has owned the Progressor series of boots can attest, the liners are cold. The Panterra ID liner is toasty to say the least. And that's wearing a thin ski sock as opposed to a mid-weight ski sock for the Progressor's.

 

The Panterra is fairly easy to get in and out of. No harder or easier than the Fisher's. I have a D width foot, narrow heel, and put the toe buckle at 100mm position, and as Dabello says, "set it, and forget it." I have a small bunion on my right foot, and my second toe is just slightly longer than my big toe. Normally I need to grind/punch small bit out of those areas to get a comfortable fit. THese felt very good, and we'll see if I need to do any mods.The soles have a nice cushy feel when you walk. They do have the canting and foot bed angle adjustments, which I have yet to tinker with but will need to reduce the forward lean.

 

The first thing I noticed on my first run in about 4" of fresh on crust was the forward lean of the Panterra. Again Dalbello marketing talks about this boot being designed with rocker skis in mind, which I guess means a more forward lean? But it took me a few runs to find that proper body/weight alignment with the Panterra. I have skinny calves, and this boot is more suited for a bigger calf. I had to stop and go another notch on the upper two buckles to get the excess play out of them. After I tightened them down, they were good to go.

 

The flex feels just about right for a 120 rated flex. Not quite as stiff as my old pair of Tecnica Agent 120's but I didn't feel any issues maching through some crud on my Rossi S3's. Steering from the ball of the feet was not an issue. With the forward lean on these boots, it makes it natural to drive the skis. I had very good snow feel with these boots, and my foot was locked in without that feel of being in a vise grip. I've owned quite a few boots in my years of skiing, and never have I ended the day without some kind of pain after the first day in a new pair of boots but these boots were a revelation. No end of day aches or pains. Just a very comfortable, stable boot.

 

I went for a few small hikes. Just flip the hike mode latch to release the back of the heel, and you notice the additional flex right away. With some boots, it seemed more gimmick than functional. Not so with the Panterra. You notice that bit of flex right off.

 

I will say the ID liner is a nice touch. It's my first experience with Intuition liners, and I can see why people like them. Very warm, and comfortable. Can't wait to put 30 + days in these boots next season.

post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 

Toadman, have a few questions below...
 

Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
 

The Panterra is fairly easy to get in and out of. No harder or easier than the Fisher's. I have a D width foot, narrow heel, and put the toe buckle at 100mm position, and as Dabello says, "set it, and forget it." I have a small bunion on my right foot, and my second toe is just slightly longer than my big toe. Normally I need to grind/punch small bit out of those areas to get a comfortable fit. THese felt very good, and we'll see if I need to do any mods.The soles have a nice cushy feel when you walk. They do have the canting and foot bed angle adjustments, which I have yet to tinker with but will need to reduce the forward lean.

 

You didn't bake/warm the liners and then go through a molding process, you just hopped in and went skiing, right?

 

How big are your ankle bones (medial malleolus)? Is that an area you typically need to have the shell punched?

 

Can you actually lower the footbed in the Panterra to reduce forward lean, or just raise it to increase? Do they specify the default forward lean angle in degrees in the manual?

 

I went for a few small hikes. Just flip the hike mode latch to release the back of the heel, and you notice the additional flex right away. With some boots, it seemed more gimmick than functional. Not so with the Panterra. You notice that bit of flex right off.

 

Can you actually visually inspect the walk mode mechanism? If so, does it look sturdy?

 

I will say the ID liner is a nice touch. It's my first experience with Intuition liners, and I can see why people like them. Very warm, and comfortable. Can't wait to put 30 + days in these boots next season.

 

I've never had a wrap liner, just tongue (no lace-up). How about you? If you too have never used a wrap style was there anything that felt weird about them?

post #8 of 16

Jc, 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post
 

So you definitely think a bootfitter could accommodate my wide forefoot in the 100mm last RX 120's? How's the heel on the Lange's? Mine's pretty narrow.

 

Also, what do you think of the stock liners that come with the RX 120's and SX 120's?

 

Thx.

1) Yes. My forefeet run 104-105 mm. 

2) Heel is narrow. I have very narrow bony heels. But that said, IME no two piece shell will lock down the heel as well as a cabrio. That's because of the basic geometry of the buckles and pivot. So a two piece will behave just fine if you keep your COM where it should be. Go backseat, and your boot will let you know. Not necessarily a bad thing. 

3) Not a big fan of the stock liners; they've gotten better but still not up to the RS's. 

post #9 of 16

jc-ski-

 

You didn't bake/warm the liners and then go through a molding process, you just hopped in and went skiing, right?

 

Right just hopped in and went skiing. Was told liners would naturally form around my foot from body heat.

 

How big are your ankle bones (medial malleolus)? Is that an area you typically need to have the shell punched?

 

I have narrow ankle bones. I normally have problems with heal retention. The Panterra gives me that locked in feel. I attribute some of that to a narrowish heel pocket, and the third buckle position.

 

Can you actually lower the footbed in the Panterra to reduce forward lean, or just raise it to increase? Do they specify the default forward lean angle in degrees in the manual?

 

You can adjust the footbed. Check out - http://www.dalbello.it/en/boots/all-mountain-adventure/panterra-120-id

 

I went for a few small hikes. Just flip the hike mode latch to release the back of the heel, and you notice the additional flex right away. With some boots, it seemed more gimmick than functional. Not so with the Panterra. You notice that bit of flex right off.

 

Can you actually visually inspect the walk mode mechanism? If so, does it look sturdy?

 

The hike mode is on back of heel. It is a plastic lever that uses a zipper pull mechanism to release it. You can adjust the flex from soft to hard. Didn't try this feature though. You need a 4mm hex wrench to adjust that function.

 

I will say the ID liner is a nice touch. It's my first experience with Intuition liners, and I can see why people like them. Very warm, and comfortable. Can't wait to put 30 + days in these boots next season.

 

I've never had a wrap liner, just tongue (no lace-up). How about you? If you too have never used a wrap style was there anything that felt weird about them?

 

First time with a cabrio design with wrap liner. The flex felt a bit stiffer at the top. But it's a new boot, so it could be due to skiing a brand new boot. I never did really try and push the boot though. Flex felt fairly even through out the top range. I did have some soreness in my shins which may be due to the way the liner wraps the shin more so than a 2 piece shell tongue does. It did feel a bit odd the first run. Part of that was due to the forward lean of the boot,  also some to the wrap liner too. But after a few runs, I wasn't thinking about the boots.

 

If I'm lucky I will get one more day on them before I hang up the skis for the season.

post #10 of 16
FYI
My last 3 boots were Langes -> RX100, RX120, XT120.
Loved the RX's but hated the XT120. The fit was fine. But I thought the liner was cheap, easily deforming when inserting the heel, and the green material at the top of the liner fraying from getting in contact with velcro ( power strap, pant cuffs ). And most of all, that boot gave me ice cold toes -> I had my store work on them twice to no affect. I never had such cold toes in my RX's

At the end of this season, I jumped ship to the K2 Spyne 110. Got out on them twice and my feet like them even more ! .... YMMV
For me, my heel is very locked in.
The Spyne 110 comes with an Intuition Luxfit, while the Spyne 130 has an Intuition Precisionfit.
Edited by ARL67 - 4/16/15 at 5:11am
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Jc, 

1) Yes. My forefeet run 104-105 mm. 

2) Heel is narrow. I have very narrow bony heels. But that said, IME no two piece shell will lock down the heel as well as a cabrio. That's because of the basic geometry of the buckles and pivot. So a two piece will behave just fine if you keep your COM where it should be. Go backseat, and your boot will let you know. Not necessarily a bad thing. 

3) Not a big fan of the stock liners; they've gotten better but still not up to the RS's. 

 

Regarding the above...

 

1) Wow, you said earlier you race in an RS 120, which has a 97mm last! I guess you've had a fair amount of shell mods to accommodate your wide forefoot? You don't just squeeze in and suffer through while in racing mode, do you?

 

3) Well, I have the Intuition Luxury's in reserve, so I could go that way and try to sell the stock liner here or on eBay I guess.

 

REI had the SX 120 in 27.5 for a pretty good price with free shipping, (online, unavailable in stores), so I ordered a pair so I can check shell fit and examine the boot at home. If it passes my check I can take it to the local bootfitter I work with for shell and alignment tweaks as necessary. If not I can return to the local store.

 

Thx.

post #12 of 16
Just an update on my Dalbello 120s. Went for a three hour tour at my home mountain. Boots are comfortable to hike in. Only downside is the weight. They also are very warm. Looking forward to next season to hike to the goods.
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

Toadman, cool you've had a good experience with your Panterra 120's. Thx for sharing.

 

I was able to get my feet into a couple of pairs recently, and the 27.5 is too large - the shell fit is over 1". A 26.5 is about right, and with the I.D. liner in and the (VFF) front buckle set at 102 the fit was pretty snug but not painful. Probably would need a little shell work for my large inside ankle bones, maybe a punch for bony knob top of left foot instep, but otherwise I think could work well. The Panterra's seem to be well made - my overall impression of them was good.

 

That said, I also got into Lange SX 120's, both 27.5 and 26.5, and again 26.5 is right size for me. Would also likely need a little shell and alignment work. I'm leaning toward the Lange's, but I'm going to get the Luxury liner I have baked and try that in my old Head's first and see how that goes.

 

In case it's useful info to anyone...

 

My foot length, measured with the heel back against a flat wall out to the furthermost point at the toes, is about 265mm, and the width at the widest point is about 104mm. (My right foot is slightly larger, about a millimeter wider and a couple mm longer than the left.) Most of my street shoes are size 10.5, and I wear a New Balance tennis shoe size 10.5 4E.

post #14 of 16

FWIW, I have a 27 left foot and 26.5 right foot. I size for the right foot. I have a 99mm width foot. My right foot with the slight bone spur goes out to about 101, which makes the VVF front buckle a brilliant set up for me. All I can say, is that the Dabello boots are well constructed from the current limited experience. Incredibly comfortable too. I suspect that little bit of extra weight is part of the well constructed scenario.

 

It allowed me to boot pack 3 miles to the goods, and not have any ill after affects with my feet. The legs...well, that's another story!

 

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadman View Post

 

It allowed me to boot pack 3 miles to the goods, and not have any ill after affects with my feet. The legs...well, that's another story!

 

3 miles hiking? Curious, why not skin instead?

 

And where is it you're skiing? Looks awesome!

post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post
 

 

3 miles hiking? Curious, why not skin instead?

 

And where is it you're skiing? Looks awesome!


Sold my touring set up.

 

Crystal Mtn. WA. Closed for the season...

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › 2014/2015 Dalbello Panterra 120 and 100 Boots