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base edge higher than base?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

 Last night I flattened a friend's old skis with the ski visions tool, and in some spots with the steel blade, it was making a really nasty screeching noise. So I  assume it was hitting the base edge. I suppose I should take down the base edge with a guide? But how do I know how much is enough, and when I reach 1 degree? Just use a permanent marker?

post #2 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

 Last night I flattened a friend's old skis with the ski visions tool, and in some spots with the steel blade, it was making a really nasty screeching noise. So I  assume it was hitting the base edge. I suppose I should take down the base edge with a guide? But how do I know how much is enough, and when I reach 1 degree? Just use a permanent marker?

That is recommended by some. It really doesn't tell you what the base edge bevel is though, just tells you you've removed the tiny thin ink layer. 

Without a really good tool, ...if you take a truebar and match it to the edge angle at then look at 60mm across the ski you should have a 1mm gap if the base edge angle is 1 degree.  some true bars come with a scribed mark at 60mm across.

 

this is tough too. you need o really get in mind what a 1mm gap looks like and compare it to the gap when measuring . Or use a feeler gauge that is 1mm thick to measure the gap. 

 

.5mm is 1/2 degree base bevel. 

 

 

the SVST Bevelmeter is what I use, but it is $260.00

post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

That is recommended by some. It really doesn't tell you what the base edge bevel is though, just tells you you've removed the tiny thin ink layer. 

Without a really good tool, ...if you take a truebar and match it to the edge angle at then look at 60mm across the ski you should have a 1mm gap if the base edge angle is 1 degree.  some true bars come with a scribed mark at 60mm across.

 But I should do something right? Otherwise the skis might be grabby when going straight and cause a fall.

post #4 of 18

First thing I would do is get a true bar and hold the skis on your shoulder in front of a light source (shining in the direction from tip to tail. 

 

Place the true-bar flat against the base and take note of the flatness of the base and as you run the true bar down the ski towards you from the tip and  note what the gap (how much light shines through) looks like over the metal edges. If their is no light, their is no base  edge bevel. If they are edge high or the base is not flat you will see light between the bar and the P-tex

 

 

 

Yes ya need to do something , if they are edge high they will ski like SH _T! :D

 

I have all my skis professionally ground flat before I impart any bevel, base or side!

post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

First thing I would do is get a true bar and hold the skis on your shoulder in front of a light source (shining in the direction from tip to tail. 

 

Place the true-bar flat against the base and take note of the flatness of the base and as you run the true bar down the ski towards you from the tip and  note what the gap (how much light shines through) looks like over the metal edges. If their is no light, their is no base  edge bevel. If they are edge high or the base is not flat you will see light between the bar and the P-tex

 

 

 

Yes ya need to do something , if they are edge high they will ski like SH _T! :D

 

I have all my skis professionally ground flat before I impart any bevel, base or side!


 I do see some light throughout the base and edge, mostly consistent. I'm having problems resting the true bar on the edge only like you said earlier. There seems to be too much play in where I can rest it.

 

I did take a couple passes with the 100 grit diamond stone on the base, and some extra where the base flattener was squeaking. In those spots, if I run my nail from the ptex to the edge, I can feel the edge get in the way, but just barely.

 

These don't have to be perfect either, they're for a skier that doesn't ski real well. I just don't want him to get hurt because of the tune!


Edited by nemesis256 - 4/8/15 at 5:46pm
post #6 of 18

None of the edge should be above the p-tex.

 

And yes it takes some practice to match the true-bar to the steel edge angle and read the gap! 

 

Best $260..00 I have ever spent on ski tuning gear is. they maybe $285.00 now!

 

http://www.race-werks.com/svst-pro-bevel-meter/

 

SVST Pro Bevel Meter

Item Number: PBM
 

 

Precision machined bevel meter reads side edge as well as base bevels on all skis or snowboards. Fully mechanical. No electronics to go haywire.

Accurate to with in 3 minutes of one degree. Consistent readings regardless of temperature or humidity. Truly a state of the art instrument. Padded durable pouch included. 

It is very important that the edges be clean.  Most effective when spot checking points along the egdes, do not drag along the edge because it may throw off the calibration.  Recalibration fee is $25.

PBMDRAWING.bmp

Edited by Atomicman - 4/8/15 at 7:58pm
post #7 of 18

I would take a base bevel guide and a file to the edge and file it down until it starts eating into the base p-tex.  Given what you have said about the skier, I would go with a 1 degree guide.

post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

 Last night I flattened a friend's old skis with the ski visions tool, and in some spots with the steel blade, it was making a really nasty screeching noise. So I  assume it was hitting the base edge. I suppose I should take down the base edge with a guide? But how do I know how much is enough, and when I reach 1 degree? Just use a permanent marker?

 

Sounds like you are using the BF1 from Ski vision. Check for a edge high condition with a true bar per A-man. If you want to correct the edge high condition, use the BF3 to cut down the edges. The two Ski Visions tools mentioned have nothing to do with base bevel angles. Make sure you understand the basic tuning concepts and tools used prior to going any further.      

post #9 of 18
Couldn't find this BF1 or 3 reference, but I assume he was using this thing: http://skivisions.us/504.html (SkiVisions Ski Base Flattener and Structure tool)and using the steel blade, not the ruby stone, and that the base was concave, therefore he was hitting the metal edge.
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Couldn't find this BF1 or 3 reference, but I assume he was using this thing: http://skivisions.us/504.html (SkiVisions Ski Base Flattener and Structure tool)and using the steel blade, not the ruby stone, and that the base was concave, therefore he was hitting the metal edge.


 that's correct, although I did use the ruby stone before using  the steel stone.There wasn't any screeching with the ruby stone.

post #11 of 18
Well, the steel bar is supposed to be able to cut the edges, as I understand it, down to flat, zero bevel. Personally, I'd have a shop do that, but you do have the tool for it. Once it is all flat, then you stop, you get a file and a guide, and you set the base angle to one degree or less. You won't be using the base flattener, as it's done its job.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

I would take a base bevel guide and a file to the edge and file it down until it starts eating into the base p-tex.  Given what you have said about the skier, I would go with a 1 degree guide.

The problem is , if the base is not flat, particularly where the glide of the base beveler sits (concave) you are still going to under bevel the edge. 

 

I get my skis professionally stone ground flat and structured only...no bevels for $15.00.  So I would have the OP just get the skis ground flat and then put a 1 degree on 'em!

 

Even if it cost $30.00 All the aggravation, time and high probability the final result is going to less than stellar, is worth the $30.00 bucks. 

 

I just can't understand trying to stonegrind your skis by hand. It needs to be done so infrequently unless you really eff up your skis , it is just not a major expense, particulalry compared to all the otehr things skiers blow hundreds if not 1000's of $$ on!

post #13 of 18

This ^^^^^  !!!!! Light professional grind to assure that they are flat and square, with an all purpose structure on the base. It would take a ton of effort and skill to get this right by hand. Just my $.02, as well. 

post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

I would take a base bevel guide and a file to the edge and file it down until it starts eating into the base p-tex.  Given what you have said about the skier, I would go with a 1 degree guide.

The problem is , if the base is not flat, particularly where the glide of the base beveler sits (concave) you are still going to under bevel the edge. 

 

I get my skis professionally stone ground flat and structured only...no bevels for $15.00.  So I would have the OP just get the skis ground flat and then put a 1 degree on 'em!

 

Even if it cost $30.00 All the aggravation, time and high probability the final result is going to less than stellar, is worth the $30.00 bucks. 

 

I just can't understand trying to stonegrind your skis by hand. It needs to be done so infrequently unless you really eff up your skis , it is just not a major expense, particulalry compared to all the otehr things skiers blow hundreds if not 1000's of $$ on!


That's true.  I just got a base grind and edge tune for $36 + tax.  That included filling in a couple of gouges.

post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muleski View Post
 

This ^^^^^  !!!!! Light professional grind to assure that they are flat and square, with an all purpose structure on the base. It would take a ton of effort and skill to get this right by hand. Just my $.02, as well. 

:beercheer:

post #16 of 18

Ski Visions BF1 & BF3 (available from Tognar. 

 

The BF3 uses a file to cut down high edges. 

 

So yes it can be done by hand but it's far easier to throw it in for a stone grind like both A-man and Muleski suggested. 

post #17 of 18
This is what I did this season (first time using Ski Visions):

Check for flatness. Since I was learning and using (on my favorite ski's no less), I went slow and proceeded with caution; marked the base edges with a sharpie. This was so I would notice when I started to hit the edge.

Whenever I noticed I was hitting the metal edge, I would take it down with my base edge guide, then return to base flattening. I repeated the process until the base was flat and I was done working the base (ptex), and then set the base edge at my desired .75* using the base edge guide (get a good one and good files).

I know the metal bar can cut the base edge but I, for whatever reason, don't like doing that. I "feel" like I'm getting more accurate results. I keep the base edge out of the way of the base flattening tools so they are only cutting ptex.

I ended up with very good results and have done this to two pair of skis. One of them brand new.

I also agree that getting them professionally done can save you quite a bit of time. My problem is that aside from SkiMD at $100 a pop, I don't get perfectly flat results. Yes it might only be $30, but I waited a week and end up with ski's that are mostly flat.

I'll admit my first time out on the first pair I did, I was curios how they would perform, but I was incredibly happy with the results. Carve, slide, skid, slip and schmear. They did it all without issue.

To the OP, yes you have to set the base edge, especially after flattening a ski. I don't have the tool that Aman does (on the wish list) so I have learned to trust my guides and work on using them correctly and only enough to get the job done. I also try to keep in. Ind that this is for skiing and there are more variations in the snow than my ski's anyways, so perfect my not be necessary. I do try to make sure I'm getting at least a B+ though.

Ken
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

 Last night I flattened a friend's old skis with the ski visions tool, and in some spots with the steel blade, it was making a really nasty screeching noise. So I  assume it was hitting the base edge. I suppose I should take down the base edge with a guide? But how do I know how much is enough, and when I reach 1 degree? Just use a permanent marker?


Check this video out a bit.  You can see the "long bevel"
 

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