or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Advice on the fit of these boots?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Advice on the fit of these boots?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

Hi all, I'm a newbie here so please be gentle :)

 

I'm looking to buy my first pair of ski boots on a very tight budget (200 pounds absolute maximum, closer to 150 would be nice) which is why I'm looking now as stuff is on clearance.

I guess I'm an intermediate-advanced skier, I'm comfortable on most black runs but I know my technique is better on reds and I wouldn't deliberately seek out difficult black runs on a day where I'm feeling tired or the conditions are bad. I have been skiing since very young but unfortunately not very much each year (if that makes sense?). I weigh around 135 lbs and am 170cm tall (5 foot 7) if that is of any relevance.

 

I have narrowed down my choice to 2 boots (although open to suggestions): http://www.snowandrock.com/pws/UniqueProductKey.ice?ProductID=FIS0205KK and http://www.decathlon.co.uk/cochise-100-14-ski-boots-id_8317753.html#anchor_ComponentProductAdvantages

 

I haven't actually tried the fischer pair, although I did try a similar fischer pair that I liked very much (but couldn't afford) in resort. Only slight niggle with the other fisher pair was the the instep height was maybe a little low. I will of course try them in the shop, but I wont be able to try side by side with tecnica pair as are from different shops. The only thing that concerns me is that it's only an 80 flex, which seems a little low.

 

The tecnica pair I have tried 2 days ago, and are currently held for me. I found them an excellent fit, which surprised me very much as they are only 100mm last and I have relatively wide feet (bunions). The reason I didn't buy them immediately was that I was worried that after a few hours the narrow last would become painful- after 20 minutes I did feel some pressure on the little toe of my widest foot, but no discomfort, and also decathlon can only do heat moulding of the liner in the shop, if I wanted the shell blown out (over the little toe) I have to take them elsewhere and pay 20-50 quid extra.

 

Despite my bunions (which I have had since birth/early childhood- I am 19 btw) I have relatively uncomplaining feet and I can't remember the last time I was in pain from rental boots. It's usually the other way around- I end in boots too big/wide and my ankle isn't held firmly enough (but my bunions are fine!) 

I want to buy boots that will give me more support so I can ski better, but I'm concerned that it might come at the cost of sore feet down the line.

post #2 of 25
Hi

You are in a tough one,far from a Mountain and on a tight budget.

The first thing I can tell is that the 80 flex might be a little too soft for you. You've mentioned you want to progress in your skiing, so you should be probably in the 100 flex, or more depending on how aggressive you are.

Ideally you should find a boootfitter that can help you with the choice, specially of you have special features in your feet, like you've mentioned. But at a really minimum you need to find a book that aligns with your foot profile (high or low volume), flex index, last size (width of the boot, wide or narrow width) and most importantly, the length. You need o do a shellfit (test the shell without the liner and observe how much space you have in your heel pocket). This is the tricky part because sometimes what feels too short is exactly the correct size. If you get the correct shellfit, last and flex, then after its possible that a boootfitter can work in the boot may you have any issue or pain on it (at a cost, so the boot might end more expensive than the initial investment) . But problems caused by the boot being too big (wrong shellfit) are difficult or almost impossible to fix.

Another thing is that the cheapest models might have a plastic combination that makes it impossible for a fitter to punch it to create space (dual density plastic), which is a common fix for features in the feet. More expensive boots have a punchable shell and more features to dual in the precise fit.

Is it an option that you check boots in your next ski trip or if you can find one close to your home to assist you in the process? I'm saying this because of you buy in a place that has bootfitting then you can go there for future adjustment if needed, usually at no charge (if it's close to the mountains that's ideal because you can test quickly any change)

Good luck
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your speedy reply.

 

I forgot to mention, I am female, but tend to prefer mens boots (and I have tried many pairs both male and female)- possibly because I have a more masculine foot/calf shape? :D I am not a particularly aggressive skier but I prefer a stiffer-than-average boot for an intermediate woman, maybe out of habit of wearing men's rental boots in the 90-110 range. 

I tried on my mum's (womens) head boots in a 70 flex and I was like "what is this? MARSHMALLOW?! which is why I'm concerned that the fischer boots in an 80 flex might be too soft.

 

Luckily Snow&Rock have a shop near me where I can at least try on the fischer boot and decide if the flex is too soft; I'm not sure how good their "bootfitters" will be, but it's got to be better than nothing- I also asked them over the phone and they are happy to fit boots bought from elsewhere (ie if I get the technica ones) for a fee.

 

It's just a hassle if I go to snow&rock to try on the fischers, don't like them and have to go BACK having bought the tecnica's- which were the best ankle fit I've had in recent years.

I'm quite tempted to buy the tecnica's off the shelf (and return them if I don't want them) so I can take them to snow&rock to directly compare the two boots, but I fear that is not good shopping etiquette.

 

I'm not in a massive rush, so could potentially wait a season but I don't want to keep waiting years for the "perfect" boot to buy while skiing in rental boots, it just doesn't make sense.

post #4 of 25

Welcome to Epic.  I would recommend not buying boots from any place that cannot work on them.  That is an indication that they are not actual boot fitters but just boot sellers.  Nobody here or anywhere else on the internet can advise you about what boot to buy.  Even pictures of your feet are no help.  But, you may be in luck because one of the world's best bootfitters is in the UK.  His name is Colin Martin and he's known on here as CEM.  Head over to the "Ask the Boot Guys" forum and you'll easily find posts by him and you send him a private message.  You can also look at the "Who's Who" and find his contact information there.  Try to go see him or, if he's too far away, get a recommendation from him on someone closer.  

post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumquatblue View Post

 

The tecnica pair I have tried 2 days ago, and are currently held for me. I found them an excellent fit, which surprised me very much as they are only 100mm last and I have relatively wide feet (bunions). The reason I didn't buy them immediately was that I was worried that after a few hours the narrow last would become painful- after 20 minutes I did feel some pressure on the little toe of my widest foot, but no discomfort, and also decathlon can only do heat moulding of the liner in the shop, if I wanted the shell blown out (over the little toe) I have to take them elsewhere and pay 20-50 quid extra.

 

Here is perversity for you: if I had been reading this and hadn't read about the slight discomfort, I would have instantly assumed that those Technicas are too big for you, maybe better than a rental for the first 10 days or so, maybe, but then about the same after that.

 

I recommend you read:   http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitting-which-boot-will-work-for-me  and then apply it to both the Technicas and the Fischers (which are a purely hypothetical fit for you at this point).   It's already been said that you should visit a fitting shop; that's because we really can't usefully advise you over the Internet.    I understand tight budgets. 

Good luck and have fun!   Be sure to come back and tell us the story - it's shaping up to be pretty decent so far.

post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

Here is perversity for you: if I had been reading this and hadn't read about the slight discomfort, I would have instantly assumed that those Technicas are too big for you, maybe better than a rental for the first 10 days or so, maybe, but then about the same after that.

 

I recommend you read:   http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitting-which-boot-will-work-for-me  and then apply it to both the Technicas and the Fischers (which are a purely hypothetical fit for you at this point).   It's already been said that you should visit a fitting shop; that's because we really can't usefully advise you over the Internet.    I understand tight budgets. 

Good luck and have fun!   Be sure to come back and tell us the story - it's shaping up to be pretty decent so far.

 

I'm pretty sure I know my correct mondopoint size- My feet measure 25.5 and 26.0 cm long and I wear a 26.0 mondopoint. I actually fit into a 25.5 boot that I tried at the same time as the tecnicas, but the fit wasn't good for other reasons, and with most brands there's no way I can cram my foot into a 25/25.5. When I was about 14 or so I remember skiing in a 28 boot because that's all the rental shop had left that wasn't agony, now THAT was too big!

 

My mum drives me nuts- she always buy/rents her boots too big! Her feet are average/narrow and two sizes smaller than mine (eu 40 vs 42) yet she ends up in the same boot size as me- and often in a wide fit boot!, so surely one of us has got it wrong (unless there really is that much variation between brands?!) It probably comes being used to buying boots big as a child to "grow into them", but she seems to be comfortable enough so each to their own.

 

The tecnica felt a really secure but comfy fit- like being smothered with a pillow! It certainly wasn't loose, but as people have said it's a bit risky to buy a boot from a purely "selling" rather than fitting shop. I'm still tempted to buy it and have it fitted elsewhere as necessary. I didn't however know about the shell fit thing, I just tried the whole boot, so will definitely give that a go to see- it won't be for a few days as my parents have gone on holiday and left me without a car.

post #7 of 25

Hi

 

Here are some thoughts for you

 

- the thing with ski and fitting is that you never really know what you are missing. your mom could be on the X-Games Slopestyle competition right now had she reduced 3 sizes her boot and went in crazy skier mode. Maybe you wouldnt be born because she was skiing all the time. So, in a way its good she didnt get the right boots. For a long time I thought footbeds were a waste of money, then I put one that I got discounted and my ski improved a lot. If I didnt get that by chance maybe I would have had much more difficulties to improve skiing. And still some weeks ago I heard from a instructor that swears that I should try to remove my custom footbeds from my boot, so who knows

 

- Be careful about how you "feel" the boot in the shop. Remember in the mountain temperature the plastic gets stiffer, some days of use will cause the liners to pack-in and the tightness will change. So its part of the "good fit can sometimes feel counter-intuitive, for example sometimes adding a footbed, something that occupies volume in the boot, will actually cause you a sensation of more space inside the boot, and all of suddenly that boot that was "tight" now has some wiggle space or even feels with excess space

 

- Then there is the problem of not being an average feet person. Say you have the length of a 25, but your frontfoot is more of a 26. Normally the solution would gravitate to get a 25 boot and work it out until it fits the 26 frontfoot, but maybe not always. But the average joe could get away with buying boots online, in a shop without a bootfitter, it depends on how much you know your fitting and how much of a gambler you are (as you said, you could get fit elsewhere, even in the middle of your ski trip). Its important if someone is doing some mod in your boot that you ask them to explain what, why and how they are doing whatever they are doing. This will improve your knowledge of your fit and in your next set of boots you will dial the fit faster by passing this info to your fitter


- Some other interesting info

 

A shell fit basic vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byj0wywypqM

 

And if you want to go full nerd mode, you can check this dude in  youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrwnpbxKnUn4QEJ67ZCdaqQ


Good luck

post #8 of 25

@Kumquatblue

 

Since these are your first non rental boots, get them fitted in person regardless how good you are.  Read what mtcyclist wrote and take it seriously, you'll be a lot better off long term and you get a good understanding what to look for when you replace your boots in the future.

 

Don't say you weren't warned if you don't heed the advice as this is a penny wise pound foolish thing.

 

Cheers and good luck what ever you decide.

post #9 of 25

Before trying to be your own bootfitter, please start by going to the recommended CEM bootfitter, tell him your budget and see what he can do within that pricerange.

post #10 of 25
Remember that a 26.0 boot is NO DIFFERENT than a 26.5 boot in most brands. Also remember that they can't shrink boots, but they can expand boots. And don't pay attention to your shoe size. Actually measure your foot with a ruler that has cm/mm marks on it. Put the ruler against the wall, your heel against the wall, and see what it says (make sure the zero is at the end of the ruler and not indented).

Unfortunately, fit is not as simple as just the length, it is also the last width, your instep height, foot volume, etc. A good boot fitter will take all that into consideration. But, knowing the actual length of your foot will also help you evaluate whether the boot on your foot is likely to be too big, which is the number one problem with practically every boot ever sold to an unsuspecting skier. Remember the lining will compact. When it is done compacting, you don't want to send up with too big a boot. Sure, the first ten days skiing then might be less pleasant than you'd like, but you want to have these boots for the long haul.
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Remember that a 26.0 boot is exactly the same as a 26.5 boot for all manufacturers of alpine boots.  AT boots are different.

FIFY

post #12 of 25
Okay.
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Remember that a 26.0 boot is NO DIFFERENT than a 26.5 boot in most brands. Also remember that they can't shrink boots, but they can expand boots. And don't pay attention to your shoe size. Actually measure your foot with a ruler that has cm/mm marks on it. Put the ruler against the wall, your heel against the wall, and see what it says (make sure the zero is at the end of the ruler and not indented).

Unfortunately, fit is not as simple as just the length, it is also the last width, your instep height, foot volume, etc. A good boot fitter will take all that into consideration. But, knowing the actual length of your foot will also help you evaluate whether the boot on your foot is likely to be too big, which is the number one problem with practically every boot ever sold to an unsuspecting skier. Remember the lining will compact. When it is done compacting, you don't want to send up with too big a boot. Sure, the first ten days skiing then might be less pleasant than you'd like, but you want to have these boots for the long haul.

 

I try on and start skiing a new boot wearing an ultra thin sock and then switch to a thin sock or even a medium thick sock as the liner compacts.

post #14 of 25
I buy them so snug my feet think they're in prison and after 145 days I'm still wearing the same socks, ultra thin ones. They were snug enough that I had the toe area on one foot blown out a bit after the first season. Didn't want to have them end up being too big, so put up with a bruised toe for about 80 days. Okay, I'm nuts...
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I buy them so snug my feet think they're in prison and after 145 days I'm still wearing the same socks, ultra thin ones. They were snug enough that I had the toe area on one foot blown out a bit after the first season. Didn't want to have them end up being too big, so put up with a bruised toe for about 80 days. Okay, I'm nuts...

I agree, if they don't hurt they're too loose.

 

As to the last statement.......

 

 

:ROTF

 

Cheers,


Edited by oldschoolskier - 4/2/15 at 9:18am
post #16 of 25

A good fit should not hurt.  A bootfitter, while helpful, is only required if you have feet that won't fit a stock boot. Having said that, I bought my current boots from a well known boot fitter.  He did an excellent job finding a stock boot that fit me really well. Different brands fit different feet.  Good luck with your quest.  I will say that boots are the most important component of your ski gear.  If your feet are done growing and you only ski a few days per year, you could be in your next pair for a decade or longer.  Better to save up and spend some more money than settle for inferior product or fit.

post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by crank View Post
 

A good fit should not hurt.  A bootfitter, while helpful, is only required if you have feet that won't fit a stock boot. Having said that, I bought my current boots from a well known boot fitter.  He did an excellent job finding a stock boot that fit me really well. Different brands fit different feet.  Good luck with your quest.  I will say that boots are the most important component of your ski gear.  If your feet are done growing and you only ski a few days per year, you could be in your next pair for a decade or longer.  Better to save up and spend some more money than settle for inferior product or fit.

You are basicly wrong in stating that a bootfitter is not required to find the right boot. One of the main reasons that you go to a bootfitter is to get the right brand and profile for your foot. Most people don't need mods to their new boots but finding a stock boot to fit your foot well is not easy without the help of a bootfitter

post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 

Short of "get a bootfitter" is there anyway of telling whether the mild discomfort in a couple of "hot spots" is likely to get better with time (as the lining gives a bit) or going to be agony after 6 hours of skiing?

post #19 of 25
You mean in the store? Or you bought online and this is in your house? Wear them around the house if that's the case. Doesn't really simulate the impact of skiing, but will certainly simulate walking. Assuming it's not while you watch TV.

I think you need ten days of skiing to tell what's not going to fade away on its own. But, although I like them SNUG, PAINFUL is another thing entirely. They shouldn't be painful, just evenly tight in every direction.
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

You mean in the store? Or you bought online and this is in your house? Wear them around the house if that's the case. Doesn't really simulate the impact of skiing, but will certainly simulate walking. Assuming it's not while you watch TV.

I think you need ten days of skiing to tell what's not going to fade away on its own. But, although I like them SNUG, PAINFUL is another thing entirely. They shouldn't be painful, just evenly tight in every direction.

 

Nope, not bought yet, just thinking hypothetically.

 

Obviously they need to feel pretty tight when you first try them on, but how to tell if it's good tight or bad too tight?

I'm guessing the key thing is "evenly tight in every direction" which is the slight concern I have a about the technica boots- they are snug everywhere, but noticeably tight(er) at the the little toe of one foot. Not painful, but I'm concerned that it will eventually cause foot numbing or pain. Am I nuts for even considering a 100mm last with a wide foot?

 

NEWS: I've attempted measure the width of my foot- I'm not sure if this is the correct way to do this as measuring the "widest part" doesn't really work as the widest part of each side of the foot are not exactly in line... so I've measure the horizontal distance from the widest part of one side to the widest part of the other.

When standing normally its about 112mm

When holding the sides of my feet to mimic a ski boot my bunion goes in somewhat and my metatarsals are less spread out and I get 98mm (and no, I'm not crushing my foot, it's comfortable)

 

Length is about 260mm for context

post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumquatblue View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

You mean in the store? Or you bought online and this is in your house? Wear them around the house if that's the case. Doesn't really simulate the impact of skiing, but will certainly simulate walking. Assuming it's not while you watch TV.

I think you need ten days of skiing to tell what's not going to fade away on its own. But, although I like them SNUG, PAINFUL is another thing entirely. They shouldn't be painful, just evenly tight in every direction.

 

Nope, not bought yet, just thinking hypothetically.

 

That width is *not* a constant, it changes with load distribution, with activation of the muscles in the foot, and with rotation of the foot mass about the support points.    So fixed measurements like the one you've just made are of dubious value just by themselves.    

Blowing out the little toe side of a boot is a common fix.    Of course if you have the type feet where the foot mass rotates towards the little toe side when skiing and (painfully!) jams there, it  isn't the right fix.     

Putting insoles/footbeds into the boot to control the foot position and shape  is a common fix.    But one has to get things like the arch height, shape &c right - getting that wrong makes for other sorts of pain.

 

You're wondering if a 100 width last is crazy - well it depends.   If a wider last makes for sloppy heel hold then all the forefoot comfort in the world won't make you ski better.

 

I'm sorry if all that sounds like a useless mishmash of generalities - but that's the only thing the Internet is good for in this context.




 

post #22 of 25
Here I am to harp at you. devil.gif Have you contacted Colin Martin or checked the "Who's Who" on the "Ask the Boot Guys" forum? You absolutely need a real boot fitter to deal with your bunnion properly because done wrong it can get worse.
post #23 of 25

Just in case the OP or others are not aware: a 100mm wide boot is the width of that boot in a size 26 shell and a 98mm or 102mm wide boot would also be the width of a size 26 shell. So as the boot size goes up from size 26 the width gets proportionately wider and as the shell size decreases from 26 the width gets narrower.

 

So a size 28 boot might be called a "100mm boot" but in size 28 it will actually be wider than 100mm.

 

A  size 28 boot in a "98mm boot" will be wider than 98mm but not as wide as a 28 "100mm boot"

post #24 of 25
Width changes by 2mm per size.
post #25 of 25
Kumquatblue,

IIRC, my foot measures 26.4cm in length and 98mm wide. My boot is a 24.5 and for this size a 94mm last. I have a bunion on my right foot only, I can ski all day without taking my boots off without any discomfort. I had them professionally fitted.

It is nothing for me to put them on at 0830 and not take them off until 6. I could easily keep them on longer. To be honest, I'm very happy to take them off and it feels good. I imagine this is the same way my daughter feels when she takes her "skinny" jeans off.

Out of the box they could have been used as a torture device! I got my feet in them, and did a couple checks the fitter asked for. I couldn't even last 5 minutes in them. When fitted I wore a sock liner. Three seasons later, I still can't fit even a thin sock on.

Yes it does cost a little more up front BUT you won't be looking for new boots in a couple years after they pack out, so it ends up being cheaper.

It might cost more at first, but you not only save in the end, you'll have a better time skiing and be able to ski better.

Have fun,
Ken
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Advice on the fit of these boots?