Well those black boxes are expensive. Real time monitoring of emissions is expensive. People don't want to pay for it. The equipment monotoring the diesels in the WVa Univ study is tens of thousands of dollars. Vw is in this mess partly because they wouldn't approve 300 Euro cost of scr system. The system your talking is maybe 10 times that.
But in the future when it's cheaper it might come to what you're suggesting. Now that the public knows manfrs can't be trusted.
The info available to the engine computer is already read by some places for emissions. It's more like looking for error codes though. Pretty coarse.
I recall that when they were talking about Obd III standards,(On Board Diagnostic), Carb wanted wireless transmission of the computer codes. That way a regulator car driving by or sensor could determine if the engine was operating up to standards or poorly which means polluting. Sema, (Specialty Equip Manufrs), and others fought that and it died. Cars are now regularly phoning in info on themselves btw.
This type of thing in other ways has been dealt with for decades. The wording put down 40 years ago covers it. "Defeat devices" is not just mechanical. In the end, the cars have to function and meet specs through 120,000 miles. It's not just the dyno. Should they have caught it earlier? Yeah, but I'd bet they didn't exactly have lots of extra funds or people for testing. At least something was done when found out.
Sure, better testing through on road testing is probably coming in. You do have to make it repeatable though.
Originally Posted by JoeUT
Originally Posted by Tog Supposedly Piech was just pissed at Mercedes for going down market so Vw went into the upscale market with the Phaeton.
That's the cars without scr. Even the scr cars are currently banned but should be easier to fix.
Injectors and software is what they're saying for England. It remains to be seen if that works for the US. The allowed emissions are lower.
Where'd you hear that?
Doesn't really make sense. Audi has gone down market more than Mercedes.
Ha, not much makes sense with Vw until you find out their board is like the Dynasty tv show. Eg- Piech got his wife, a former kindergarten teacher (and the former nanny), a spot on the board.
I can't find the exact quote about Piech's annoyance with Mercedes and it's low range A cars. Regardless he wanted a technological flagship to take on limo S Class .The Wired Mag quote had it wrong. Piech wanted the vehicle to do 300km/hr all day with an outside temp of 50 C (122F) and an inside temp of 22C (72F)
This sums it up:
The Phaeton was conceived by Ferdinand Piech, then chairman of Volkswagen Group, who wanted Volkswagen engineers to create a car that would surpass the German prestige market leaders, namely Mercedes-Benz and BMW. The decision to launch the Phaeton was partially in response to Mercedes’ decision to compete directly with Volkswagen in the European marketplace with the low-cost ‘A’ Class.
It was also intended to support the Volkswagen brand image, since the most expensive versions of lesser models, such as the Golf GTI, were starting to cost almost as much as equivalently-sized prestige brands.
Although the Volkswagen group already has a direct competitor in the full-sized luxury segment, the Audi A8, the Phaeton is intended to be more of a comfort-oriented limousine like the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Lexus LS, while the Audi A8 and BMW 7 Series are more sport-oriented.
Trouble with the pet project in the US:
... In the fall of 2004, the eight-month reign of the then-vice president in charge of Audi of America and Canada came to an abrupt end, thanks to what we will call “The Phaeton Affair.”
Axel Mees, who had come to his Audi job after a long stint with BMW, saw his VW Group career crash and burn after suggesting that the VW Phaeton was a grave mistake – planting the blame for the slow-selling luxury VW built in the old East Germany (Dresden) squarely on former VW and Audi CEO Ferdinand Piech. Piech is now chairman of the VW Group.
I was sitting beside Mees at a dinner in San Francisco to mark the launch of the then-new Audi A6 when he told me and the other assembled journos that the Phaeton “could be the best car, but I would still not buy it because it has the VW logo and because I have to go to a VW dealership where the salesmen are used to selling Jettas and Golfs.”
Yes, he said that. And then he turned his attention to the big boss, Piech: “Piech was an engineer and he wanted to prove that he (could) build great cars, and he didn’t look at the marketing aspect, the brand aspect.”
This aboutbthe Phaeton from last Jan:
Cost-cutting VW baffles experts with Phaeton plans
Carmaker has lost an estimated 2 billion euros on first generation of S-class rival
But sources at VW told Reuters that the company is now planning a more advanced version of the Phaeton -- even though the first-generation car was ranked by Bernstein analyst Max Warburton as one of the three "most loss-making European cars of modern times."
Some possible insight on why they can't bring themselves to axe it.
An auto journalist recalls a test of the Phaeton in Finland and a conversation with Piech:
He [Piech] became irritated when we protested that we weren’t comparing like with like, insisting at one point that the Phaeton was the finest achievement of his career, eclipsing even the project popularly regarded as his finest ever, the creation of the mighty Porsche 917 Le Mans racer.
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/1504-how-ferdinand-piech-lost-control-of-volkswagen/Edited by Tog - 10/14/15 at 10:59pm
HOW FERDINAND PIECH LOST CONTROL OF VOLKSWAGEN
BY DAVID KILEY - APRIL 28, 2015
Mercurial. Machiavellian. Bully. Insiders and outsiders alike use such adjectives to describe Piech, who has often driven his own vanity projects, acquisitions, and investments at VW while board members sat by, rolling their eyes but not wanting to challenge his power: The Volkswagen Phaeton luxury sedan, a spectacular failure designed to challenge the Mercedes-Benz S-Class; the W-8, which Piech himself designed as a premium, more fuel-efficient eight-cylinder engine; the acquisitions of Lamborghini, Bugatti, and Ducati, all of which have been profit drains.