Originally Posted by NayBreak
Originally Posted by nochaser
It's a possibility, but I can't imagine a take-over of the whole VW by a foreign firm. It a national marquee firm for zee Germans. Perhaps carve-outs of several of its luxury brands, if really necessary. If going gets really tough, a possible bankruptcy/restructuring w/ majority fundings by collection of domestic banks and other sources. Time will tell for sure.
I read that there has been a lot of criticism on VW corporate org structure and strong voice for a decentralized corporate governance model. Trouble like this can sometimes get buried in a company with layers of bureaucracy. I trust the ex-CEO that he didn't know the problem, and that's a huge issue.
Maybe CEO's will get smart and realize that aiming to be the #1 global auto maker is an "at all costs" objective. It doesn't make you GM, it makes you too big to manage no matter who you are.
One thing that should happen is that we stand back and look to see if what VW did here at the base system level isn't a reasonable balance. If as noted in an article that Tog posted that it was testing over long trips at high speeds - 1,500 - 2,000 miles - that doomed VW, then what if the cars are doing reasonably well around town on short trips and are more opened up on long trips at high speed?
How many of these cars does it take to equal one belching big rig, where at the policy level it is somehow too expensive to implement emissions controls? Be clean in the city and clean enough on long trips in order to get 25% better economy isn't an outrageous objective.
Uh no. That was writer's license in the article. Simply meaning that's when they tested the Passat. They didn't do well anywhere. Except the Beemer.
The worst, for all, were up and down hills. Those researchers collected mounds of calibrated data which is partly why the EPA and CARB took it seriously. They have full gps data including altitude collected once per second, emissions output at 10 times/sec, temp, barometric pressure. They have full routes so you could repeat it. This wasn't the Wells Report.
Plus EPA and CARB had been back and forth with VW for quite a long time.
The test plan covered a wide variety of topological, road and ambient conditions as well as
traffic densities over three major urban areasalong the West coast, namely, San Diego, LosAngeles, and San Francisco (California). Additionally, one vehicle, specifically one equipped with urea-SCR after-treatment technology, was operated overa total distance of ~4000km between Los Angeles, CA and Seattle, WA to investigate emissions reduction characteristics over extended highway driving conditions. Furthermore, two out of the three test vehicles were selected for chassis dynamometer testing over standardized test cycles at CARB’s vehicle certification laboratory in El Monte, CA. This also allowed for comparison of the PEMS against laboratory grade instruments to verify measurement accuracy of the on-board system.
You can actually see the maps of the routes they took at that page.
Look, a possible flag is how the Tdi's consistently beat the EPA mileage estimates by a good amount. That's extremely unusual. The guy who set a guinness record got over 70 78mpg over an 8,000 mile trip to all 48 states.13mpg better than the hybrid record. He's now worried guinness won't approve his record. He's over at http://www.cleanmpg.com. - "Wayne"
But the driving team was quick to point out that the techniques they used for this record-setting trip were nothing out of the ordinary, and can be utilized by anyone. The techniques the team used during the trip included were steady acceleration from stoplights, using momentum to crest hills, and simply obeying the posted speed limits.
Big Rigs are now subject to much stricter emissions. That was also part of their scamming with "defeat devices" in 1998 that got them fined by the EPA with a resolution to spend money on new designs and when rebuilding old engines make them to the new standard. (That's pretty big actually)
It's also the reason you are now seeing Diesel Exhaust Fluid, (DEF), ie AdBlue, at truck stops and dealers. Most auto parts stores would probably start to carry it because of VW but now that is a little in jeopardy. I'm sure in Portlandia, before the picketing starts and the egg throwing onto Phil's car, you could get DEF in an auto store.
I certainly think we should stand back and see if the standards are appropriate, but that's a little late for VW. They all bitched they were too tough. Europe is less strict on NOx to allow diesels. They also don't tax diesel fuel like gasoline. We tax diesel more since it's used by heavy trucks that impact the roads more. ( I guess that's the reasoning).
What should really be done is change to real world, on the road testing. Including mileage. The lab tests are so outdated. All manufacturers game for that test because it's so defined. Europe is bringing in real world testing supposedly, and with that I believe the "lab" values are less strict. They're still arguing on how to do the test.
They've all been bitching since Ralph Nader in the 60's. It may be that the cost of light diesels with the emissions is just too much for the benefits. Icct certainly doesn't think so from what I've read. I get the sense they're annoyed manufacturers are being cheap in installing the gear. Now look what it's cost VW.
Edited by Tog - 9/24/15 at 12:03pm