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Looking for a fat "playful charger"

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for a new pair of relatively fat skis to compliment my brahmas. I mostly ski in the east, specifically Vermont but take around 1 to 2 trips out west. I'd consider myself a solid advanced skier but not quite an expert. I enjoy skiing the whole mountain and particularly off piste.
I'd like these skis to be around 108-120 in waist and to be able to bust through crud yet also be manageable in tight spaces. Pow performance is also relevant but I wouldn't expect these to perform as well as a dedicated powder ski. Groomer performance is not as important but I'd like these to be somewhat manageable. So basically what I want is around a 115 sized ski that can chop thru crud, float well in around a foot of powder, and perform well in trees. Also I'm around 5'9 and 170 lbs.
Skis on my short list are the:
Moment bibby pro
On3p billy goat
Rossignol sickle
Line supernatural 108
Praxis gpo

Thanks in advance
post #2 of 26
You should add Atomic Automatics in 109 or even 117.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
I initially considered them but after reading a few reviews it seems as though they are a little too soft.
post #4 of 26

http://www.praxisskis.com/products/concept-2015.html

 

Get the Praxis Concept in 177cm. That is what I did to fill the very niche you carve out. An you and I are exactly the same size,

My home hill is Sugarloaf, so the conditions we ski are identical. I got a remaindered ski that Praxis had made up with carbon at about half price I skied it early in the season on packed powder, almost as a novelty, for a 115mm ski. My bad. I have 12 pairs+/- of skis. And these Praxis are the most versatile by far. I brought them out more and more as the season progressed - in every condition. As you would expect, they are brilliant in 6"+ of fresh soft. But that lasts, as you know, one to two runs. You can ski these boards the rest of the day. Very stable in cut up, infinitely turny without any hint of instability or twitchyness - except when running flat. I assume that is true of many skis of this ilk. Much better and broader skill set than my Souls 7's which I did not pull out once this year.

Read about the unique geometry of this ski. Basically there is a camber from tip to toe and a second behind the heel. Underfoot the ski is flat So when you flatten it, they carve like no 115mm ski has a right to. Quite an amazing feeling. I found myself looking down just to verify that I was on a pair of "fatties." But these are not your daddy's fatties.

Beautifully crafted - the equal of the various Kastles I own. Full metal top edge protects the very nice "southwestern" bear motif. I don't know what bases they use, but they are the hardest bottoms in my fleet. Nary a mark after several trips. Whether it is the killer tune, the geometry, the carbon or Nevada fairy dust, the hold on ice is positively freakish, even with what is likely a 1/1 edge.

Simply put, while I have a boatload of skis, with the Kastle MX 78's on one end and the Concepts on the other all the rest are relegated to self-indulgent bling.

Best of luck

David

 

A definitive review from a fellow Vermonter:http://www.epicski.com/t/111313/review-praxis-concept-177cm-2011-2012

post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the in depth response. I would like to know if they ski short or long.
post #6 of 26

I can't speak to the others, but I like both the GPO and Concept (and a few other of Keith's skis). But that's based on me & where I ski... :) Still, there is decent info on both out there. Neither are noodles. 

 

I'd say both ski "medium". They do not feel as short as more dramatically rockered skis. Not as long as some others. The Concept is sort of different in that it, not surprisingly, pivots in its own loose way when you want it to.  

 

Keith is doing his blowout sale until tomorrow night when he flips to the custom order pre-sale (which I surmise will also be a good deal - but not the same clearance gig). The 182 GPO in glass could be a good match. You could  go either way size-wise on the Concept - except that I believe he is stocked out on the 187s... :)  With 10-15% additional off depending the the coupon code you get your hands on - that's about 500 bucks to your door. Give or take. Code EPIC should still get 10% off. Or any existing customer can generate a 15% off new customer loyalty program code. There are a few of us here who would be happy to provide you with said code. :D

 

If you are interested in these skis - the simple way to get your questions answered by the guy who knows best  is just to ask Keith... 

post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious zebra View Post

Thanks for the in depth response. I would like to know if they ski short or long.

My pleasure.

I confess that I do not know. I am more interested in whether they ski "right." All my skis, from 66mm carvers to these 115mm fatties are 174mm to 180mm. Since the Concepts only come in 177 or 187, and because I wanted less length for tight trees I went with the shorter and feel good about that choice. If I were out west, I would have opted for the longer, I suspect. But for Maine, the 177's are just fine.


Edited by deliberate1 - 3/28/15 at 6:00pm
post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 
Does anyone own the billy goats that can possibly make a comparison to the concepts
post #9 of 26

Just got myself a pair of Nordica El Capos today. Definitely charger, maybe not so playful. The Vagabond might be more playful. If they do an early release, the Volkl Hundred8 could be a great choice.

post #10 of 26

Icelantic Keeper (119 mm waist, but 16 m sidecut in your length).  A  nice combo of flex, camber, sidecut and rocker.  If you go for more rocker you get more "playful, but you lose the charging and crud busting qualities of the Keepers.  Whatever you ending going with, I'd highly recommend a shark nose tip to get the combination of qualities you are looking for.

post #11 of 26

A little narrower than you requested, but you might look at the Nordica Enforcer. I got the Santa Ana (women's/no metal version) as a crudbuster, and it's fantastic. Holds an edge nicely, too. 

 

For comparison's sake - I more or less got it to replace my Line Sick Day 110s, which are great in soft snow and on groomers, but get thrown around in crud. 

post #12 of 26

I'll put in a strong vote for the Sickles.  My second year on them, and I love them enough I bought a backup pair.   Several friends have tried them and bought them too.  Extremely versatile ski as the Blister Review says.  Pick some up before they are gone for good.

 

Here's a video of me on them last month, I believe showing their versatility and playfulness.  I'll leave the charging question as an exercise for the reader, since everybody is a charger... right?  :)

 

 

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious zebra View Post

So basically what I want is around a 115 sized ski that can chop thru crud, float well in around a foot of powder, and perform well in trees.

jeffrey 114! you could ski either 181 or 186!

more what you are looking for than the BG, even though I find the BG to be quite playful!
post #14 of 26

Volkl Shiro in 183. I'm about your size, ski trees in northern VT and bring these out whenever its at all soft - they were great in the soft cream cheese in the trees last weekend at Stowe (march 20-21).

 

Because the full rocker doesn't have much splay they can even lay down an arc if you are going fast enough to engage the sidecut.

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometjo View Post
 

Volkl Shiro in 183. I'm about your size, ski trees in northern VT and bring these out whenever its at all soft - they were great in the soft cream cheese in the trees last weekend at Stowe (march 20-21).

 

Because the full rocker doesn't have much splay they can even lay down an arc if you are going fast enough to engage the sidecut.

It will make you ski like this:

 

 

post #16 of 26

I would wait until April first when Praxis starts their custom preorder sale for 2016 skis and take a look through their skis. 50% off all orders, plus an additional 15% off that with a code from a previous customer like spindrift said. Definitely a hard deal to beat.

 

I can't speak to the Concept or GPO but I would definitely group the RX in the charger category as well. It performs extremely well in variable conditions and is easy to shut down when you need to. I have it in the 189 which is a bit of a handful in the tightest of trees but is surprisingly quick in untracked despite the 32m turn radius.. I can say I've never hooked an edge on them… They have the slightest pintail which makes them easy to pivot in tight spaces, if I had them in a smaller size it would be my goto tree ski. Also has a good amount of effective edge (more than the Concept or GPO), with the fresh factory tune they were RAILING on groomers, it was a bit absurd. The RX is probably one of the most overlooked skis by Praxis.

post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometjo View Post
 

It will make you ski like this:

 

 

Eh, skis like a girl.....Maybe I need a sex change rather than a new pair of skis.

post #18 of 26
@cometjo - thanks for that video. A girl can dream about skiing like that girl.
post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
what flex do you guys recommend on the praxis skis
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious zebra View Post

what flex do you guys recommend on the praxis skis

I'm skiing the stock RX, so med/stiff MAP core. It is a nice even flex that is substantial without feeling planky. I'm about 15lbs lighter than you. I think at your weight and intended purpose med+ or med/stiff would best suit your needs (from my understanding med+ is in between medium and med/stiff, can someone also verify this?).

 

If you email Keith @ Praxis he will certainly be able to provide the best answer to any questions about the skis you may have.

post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
Was also wondering if anyone had any experience with the moment deathwish
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust View Post
 

I would wait until April first when Praxis starts their custom preorder sale for 2016 skis and take a look through their skis. 50% off all orders, plus an additional 15% off that with a code from a previous customer like spindrift said. Definitely a hard deal to beat.

 

I can't speak to the Concept or GPO but I would definitely group the RX in the charger category as well. It performs extremely well in variable conditions and is easy to shut down when you need to. I have it in the 189 which is a bit of a handful in the tightest of trees but is surprisingly quick in untracked despite the 32m turn radius.. I can say I've never hooked an edge on them… They have the slightest pintail which makes them easy to pivot in tight spaces, if I had them in a smaller size it would be my goto tree ski. Also has a good amount of effective edge (more than the Concept or GPO), with the fresh factory tune they were RAILING on groomers, it was a bit absurd. The RX is probably one of the most overlooked skis by Praxis.

 

Considering that Praxis is a small company with no pretty much no marketing budget compared with the big kids (i.e. Keith is not buying talent)  - it should say something that both the GPO and RX are no strangers to the FWT podium. I know Keith feels that for whatever reason, the RX is often overlooked for applications where it excels. And the Concept likely still qualifies as well based on the mission.

 

Not that I'd discourage anyone from doing the custom order thing, but if any of the clearance skis are the flex you want and the topcoat sings to you - that is a heck of a good way to go too. Especially if you might still want to ski them this season.

post #23 of 26

Consider the Blizzard Peacemakers in 186! The 104 waist is a little more narrow than what you asked for, but everyone has nothing but great things to say about them, including me! Definitely a solid one ski quiver. These planks shred. Not totally a charger, but more of a playful charger like you wanted..

 

Here's an in detail review. http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2nd-look-blizzard-peacemaker

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious zebra View Post

I mostly ski in the east, specifically Vermont but take around 1 to 2 trips out west...and perform well in trees. Also I'm around 5'9 and 170 lbs.

Just a comment that at your size (I'm taller and couple of lbs lighter), the " perform well in trees," gave me pause. 115 and moderately stiff won't be the easiest handling back here. I'd think about something like the Patron, Vagabond, or Super 7, that will give you the float, are respectable in soft/heavy chop, but can flex at modest speeds for all those dense powder covered bumps in the trees we specialize in. No, not high speed crud missiles. Out west, different story, perhaps, you might more enjoy the GPO or BG. Although I had a blast on my Super 7's at Big Sky in the Dictator Chutes. But then again, maybe I'm just not a Charger. :D

post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
@beyond I agree with everything you said which is what makes finding a ski that will do the tasks I mentioned nearly impossible and I have to accept that there will be some tradeoffs
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious zebra View Post

Does anyone own the billy goats that can possibly make a comparison to the concepts


well may be a little late to this...

 

i love my Billy Goats they were my first real fat skis... i tried numerous skis at Alta demo day...

 

as any fatter ski to me they are plenty stiff enough and soft enough for what ever you have infant of you...

 

I don't like them in icy moguls as they are too stiff...

I don't like them in Ice pisted snow... edged 1 and 1... i am used to slalom and GS race skis that have perfect grip...

 

I love them on fresh pisted snow... easy to cruise or really attack the front tips...

I love them in any powder... short or big turns...

I love them in Crud... heavy enough to just plough through everything...

I love them in Slush... as above... 

I love them in very steep chutes - very easy to manoeuvre about...

 

Will arrive in SLC a week today and they are the only ski i will take with me and they are perfect for there at this time of year - just being careful to avoid the frozen areas...

 

 

As far as my quiver -

 

SL Race ski

GS race ski(lab)

Kung Fujas 102 width and being replaced for next season - will demo replacements at Alta...

Billy Goats 118

 

dunno if you need anything more than that...

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