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Part 2 - The health of the ski instruction profession.... - Page 4

post #91 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

Terminal intermediate. smile.gif

Punter. smile.gif
post #92 of 117
I've had the pleasure to take over 30 days of clinics from 8 different demo team members over the years. Anyone that would consider them to be intermediate skiers has really poor movement analysis skills.
post #93 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

My point Met was that anonomous sniping is in my opinion cowardly. A second thought was a derisive opinion shared in private is totally different than doing so in public and you cannot get more public than posting it on the web.
I remember a story about a thief bragging on a social media site about a robbery. It didn't take the police long to arrest him.

 

We agree that anonymous sniping is reprehensible. 

 

When a nation's demo team performs at an international event, they're putting themselves on a podium and are implicitly inviting commentary. These guys and girls aren't skiing in camouflage at their home resort; they're wearing their national uniform. I'd say it's as open season for commentary as when celebrities show up at the Oscars. Again, sniping is nasty. Informed commentary can lead to discussion and learning. Discussion is a powerful tool in constructivist learning theory as it enables participants to identify and challenge their biases, misconceptions and conflicting knowledge. 

 

So I'd say let's see more discussion about interski performances, rather than less. We all learn so long as we're open to it. 

post #94 of 117

What those sorts of comment do is hardly what I would consider creating a willingness to learn in anyone. Which last time I checked is one of three overarching principles in  Bruner's theory. At best most here dismiss those sort of comments rather than see them as an opportunity to have a meaningful discussion with that poster.

post #95 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

I'm glad to receive your assurance that PSIA can produce technically solid skiers. There's a question which puzzles me and perhaps you can answer it: why didn't PSIA send any of them to Ushuaia a few weeks ago for Interski 2015? While I can see the merit in having sent terminal intermediates for comparison purposes, some pros should have been sent too.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

Terminal intermediate. smile.gif

 

 

For the record this is what I was referring to.

 

SE, I too have issues with PSIA, but all you do is hurt your own credibility by making that type of comment.

 

You'd be better able to make your point about PSIA Demo Team member's skiing if you addressed it from a reasonable point of view.  

 

We all know how a terminal intermediate skier skis.  These people are advanced and expert skiers.  

 

They may have serious flaws in your opinion - but come on.  Intermediates?

post #96 of 117

As I understand it, PSIA's focus at Interski this time around was how to better educate the recreational skiing

public, not on displaying technical subtleties that distinguish them from other national teams of expert skiers.

For that reason, the team decided to not do synchro skiing in the way Interski expects.  I suspect there are

other decisions they made that resulted in their participation looking different from that of other countries.  


I also read that at the very last minute they decided to include their snowboarders in their skiing demo.  If they

didn't practice ahead, that would affect the way the skiing demo worked.  It sounds like they decided to display

different types of skiing, not one type that is a "final form" targeted by all instruction, in that on-snow presentation.  


Anyone have more info on that?

 

Here's a quote that led me to that conclusion. 

“I was impressed with the diversity in turn shapes, the obvious connection with the snow, and the variety of long-radius turns and tricks the freestylers performed while skiing,” said Serge Filkin, a PSIA-certified alpine instructor at New York’s Hunter Mountain. “It was powerful to see all the disciplines coming down the mountain in one formation.”All team demos had been primarily limited to skiers, but thanks to last-minute (“Or later than that – what’s beyond last minute?” asked AASI Snowboard Team Coach Lane Clegg), encouragement from the freestylers, the Snowboard Team was added to the U.S. presentation.

http://www.thesnowpros.org/NewsInformation/NewsAnnouncements/tabid/117/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/802/Interski-2015-PSIA-AASI-Team-Puts-the-Learning-Connection-Show-on-Snow.aspx

 

 


Edited by LiquidFeet - 9/30/15 at 7:12am
post #97 of 117

The thread started as an off shoot of another and seemed to be about pay, certification and if the clients care about full cert teachers. Competition verses monopolies were mentioned as a way to change the stranglehold PSIA seems to have on the instruction market here in the US,

Labor market wise importing foreign nationals to develop and run ski schools happened a long time ago. Now days it's the other end of that labor market seeking jobs here. The visa programs have changed as well. Companies go to the government stating they cannot find enough folks to fill the jobs they offer at the wage they are willing to pay. So using a supply and demand approach to bring about positive movement in compensation for line instructors is probably not going to work any better than it already has. The companies will just bring in more foreign nationals, or like in the construction, food service, hospitality industries those folks willing to do that job for that pay will sneak across the border. No one complains about where these workers come from, nor do they seem to care about that when it comes to who actually cooks their meal in a restaurant, cleans their hotel room, frames their house. In that environment PSIA tries to remain an educational entity but as many have already mentioned SAM includes a ton of PSIA higher ups who support the current system. Perhaps the only way to change any of that is for the customer to demand a US citizen doing the work. Buy American was an attempt to do that and it went away as companies like WalMart and others shifted away from that idea. Outsourcing became the new best practice and national loyalties at those big companies is now seen as a sentimental but outdated idea that is more expensive when it comes to labor.

 

Whatever happened at interski has little effect on this and IMO will not do anything to change things at the line level where low pay and no benefits are the norm.  

post #98 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
 

The thread started as an off shoot of another and seemed to be about pay, certification and if the clients care about full cert teachers.

 

 

  

Part of this discussion reminds me of how patients sometimes respond to their association with a physician.    IMHO  most ski school students have little understanding of the dynamics of effective sport coaching.  Most students probably are not good judges of the  quality of the ski instruction they have received, at least when it comes to the technical aspects of the instruction.   What the students can effectively evaluate is whether or not they felt comfortable with the instructor,   whether they feel as though they learned something useful and whether they had fun.   I want a competent physician.  It would also be nice if he were  easy to communicate  with and made me feel as though he was genuinely concerned with my well being and outcomes.  How about having a physician with a great personality but someone who is somewhat incompetent?  Personality probably has as much to do with how students  view their instructor as technical competence.  It's no different with patients and physicians.    My principle concern as an instructor is my technical competence and my ability to transfer learning and skill development to my students.   I'm also not so naïve not to realize that some students want or need something a little different.  So...students have their needs and concerns when it comes to instructors but I'm not  sure they ultimately care whether or not their instructor is certified by PSIA or at what level they may certified.   YM   

post #99 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
 

 

Labor market wise importing foreign nationals to develop and run ski schools happened a long time ago. Now days it's the other end of that labor market seeking jobs here. The visa programs have changed as well. Companies go to the government stating they cannot find enough folks to fill the jobs they offer at the wage they are willing to pay. So using a supply and demand approach to bring about positive movement in compensation for line instructors is probably not going to work any better than it already has. The companies will just bring in more foreign nationals, or like in the construction, food service, hospitality industries those folks willing to do that job for that pay will sneak across the border.

 

 

Perhaps the only way to change any of that is for the customer to demand a US citizen doing the work. Buy American was an attempt to do that and it went away as companies like WalMart and others shifted away from that idea. Outsourcing became the new best practice and national loyalties at those big companies is now seen as a sentimental but outdated idea that is more expensive when it comes to labor.

 

 

Two comments:  WRT your first point, I don't think this is realistic as the number of visas is quite limited and ski areas already have problems getting enough visas to obtain foreign staff.  IOW, that's not the source of supply that will keep wages low.  Rather, it is the avid skier, often nearing retirement, who's willing to work for peanuts.  Or the gap year student.

 

WRT to "buy American," it's (pardon my strong language) bigoted.  Why should we care if our lesson is from an American  citizen or a citizen of another country?  Shouldn't we really care about value for money rather than national origin?  Frankly, if it was a CSIA level 4, I'd probably prefer that to a run of the mill PSIA level 3.  Or an Austrian for that matter.  

 

Only slightly off-topic, if you look at the demographic makeup of the US, we are facing a crisis.  The baby boomers are retiring or nearing retirement, and the entitlements we are expecting (and were promised) will fall on a steadily declining population of workers/taxpayers.  The Republicans (of which I am one) have it wrong:  we need immigrants to work, pay taxes, and support those of us who will soon not be working.

 

Mike

post #100 of 117
Agreed, it is this perception that leads to SAM hiring folks they hope to develop. Which is funny considering how metrics like instructor knowledge end up well below other metrics in customer surveys.
post #101 of 117
Mike, I still say an equal playing field when it comes to jobs is hardly the case. Work visas here are not all that difficult to obtain when compared to other countries. It's protectionism for sure but hardly racial or ethnic bigotry. Buy locally and hire locals supports the local economy, importing foreign labor who send most of their income back home takes money out of that local economy. The corporations meanwhile asks for tax breaks for importing these workers. Again taking money out of the local economy.
Yesterday an article in NYT talked about accounting jobs at NY Life being exported after foreign workers come here, train, then take thise jobs with them when they go home. They mention corporations who specialize in arranging this sort of stuff. Reverse that and see how other countries would allow that.
Edited by justanotherskipro - 9/30/15 at 11:50am
post #102 of 117

In Canada, and in my area of practice (HR/L&D), employers must demonstrate that no other candidate in the country is able to perform the work before the company can look abroad. Even then, the person who enters the country must be paid above market rates. 

 

Seems to be a good system to prevent the erosion of pay equity.

post #103 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNNGihezqU

Mr. Lipton is incredible, La Maestro ...  popcorn holder here perhaps should line up for lessons, need it bad, real hurtin' bad from what ah've seen, Metaphor - what you says lacks respect, is couched in language which is simply rude, jusanother called ya on it, righteous all and yer chat have little to do with learning. 

post #104 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

As I understand it, PSIA's focus at Interski this time around was how to better educate the recreational skiing

public, not on displaying technical subtleties that distinguish them from other national teams of expert skiers.

For that reason, the team decided to not do synchro skiing in the way Interski expects.  I suspect there are

other decisions they made that resulted in their participation looking different from that of other countries.  


I also read that at the very last minute they decided to include their snowboarders in their skiing demo.  If they

didn't practice ahead, that would affect the way the skiing demo worked.  It sounds like they decided to display

different types of skiing, not one type that is a "final form" targeted by all instruction, in that on-snow presentation.  

 

 

Is the membership buying this? At face value it looks like PSIA phoned it in at interski and then came up with a lame explanation to justify their performance... not all that different from 2011 except they are at least trying to justify this time around.

post #105 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by simontemplar View Post

Mr. Lipton is incredible, La Maestro ...  popcorn holder here perhaps should line up for lessons, need it bad, real hurtin' bad from what ah've seen, Metaphor - what you says lacks respect, is couched in language which is simply rude, jusanother called ya on it, righteous all and yer chat have little to do with learning. 

Simon, ya need to turn on your 'tongue in cheek' humor button. I think it's safe to say that other than maybe sharpedges, we're pretty much all in agreement in saying Mr. Lipton is certainly not a middling intermediate. Personally, he might be my fav on the demo squad. The conditions in that vid look pretty crappy, but he made it look downright good.
post #106 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Simon, ya need to turn on your 'tongue in cheek' humor button. I think it's safe to say that other than maybe sharpedges, we're pretty much all in agreement in saying Mr. Lipton is certainly not a middling intermediate. Personally, he might be my fav on the demo squad. The conditions in that vid look pretty crappy, but he made it look downright good.


Read ya loud and clear Mark, yer not the popcorn man, pardonnes moi, 'n habaman dead eye on, he got it nice 'n right. popcorn aint u folk, popcorn know cause he got 'em popcorn often , should be lining up fer lessons avec Monsieur Lipton stead of looking' in them mirrors

post #107 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Personally, he might be my fav on the demo squad.

 

I think Eric is probably second best on the squad... Ballou has really pushed his skiing and seems to have more runway in front of him in terms of evolving his technique.

post #108 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post

I think Eric is probably second best on the squad... Ballou has really pushed his skiing and seems to have more runway in front of him in terms of evolving his technique.

I don't disagree, it's just that there's a ton more vid online of J.B. Seems they're both working and thinking hard about good things.
post #109 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

As I understand it, PSIA's focus at Interski this time around was how to better educate the recreational skiing

public, not on displaying technical subtleties that distinguish them from other national teams of expert skiers.

For that reason, the team decided to not do synchro skiing in the way Interski expects.  I suspect there are

other decisions they made that resulted in their participation looking different from that of other countries.  


I also read that at the very last minute they decided to include their snowboarders in their skiing demo.  If they

didn't practice ahead, that would affect the way the skiing demo worked.  It sounds like they decided to display

different types of skiing, not one type that is a "final form" targeted by all instruction, in that on-snow presentation.  

 

 

Is the membership buying this? At face value it looks like PSIA phoned it in at interski and then came up with a lame explanation to justify their performance... not all that different from 2011 except they are at least trying to justify this time around.

I'm buying it. The demo team has consistently stated that they go to Interski for the exchange of information, not the competition.  They skipped one Interski because the focus that year was the competition instead of the information sharing. Instead of spending the time and travel budget to practice to the same extent as the other national teams, they choose to spend the time and effort on presentations and prep for on snow clinics. It's not hard to see how travel expenses would be a lot greater for the US team, than the Euro teams. Frankly, I don't want my dues being used for making our synchro skiing look pretty. There's a lot more to Interski than the synchro demonstrations.

post #110 of 117

I will throw some gas on the fire here, some of you are going to react, but oh well...i hope PSIA leaders are listening...

 

I have also been quite dissapointed thus far with the amount of information leaking out from interski this year.  Hopefully more will come, maybe it will from canada.  My understanding is that internet reception was spotty there, and they are editing video now.  We'll see.  

 

My comments about what I saw with interski this year so far, in no particular order:

 

  • I think the syncro skiing is a completely self gratuitous thing that some of the ski teams focus on, its a waste of our dues money to train our team and send them there for that.  if their focus particularly not to the syncro skiing, then my hats off to them, because syncro skiing has nothing to do with PSIA, what we do as an organization or what we fund with our dues money.  I'm sure the D teams from all the countries have some fun with that in a competitive way and that's nice for them, but nearly all the video we saw coming from interski this year so far has been syncro skiing, which is an utter waste of time and resources.  Syncro skiing tends to dummy down everyone's fundamental turn technique in order to perform the sequences they are doing exactly in time or whatever.  They will not neccessarily be making their best or even their typical national standardized turns while syncro skiing and it kind of makes all the countries look the same too.  Its a complete waste of time for us as ski instructors to pay any attention to their syncro skiing party, and it was a waste of our dues for them to participate in it.
  • A lot of videos and still photos have circulated around showing poor skiing in these syncro events, across pretty much all of the teams.  Even the austrians and canadians, which are probably the best two teams, have people on their team that are stemming all over the place in their syncro skiing.  But read my previous comment, I think its foolish to even bother analyzing their syncro skiing, its not even representative of what each of them are capable of doing while just demoing one skier at a time, which is what we should be watching.
  • I was severely disappointed with the presentation that our PSIA team gave at interski in terms of what they presented.  I was equally disappointed with their comments at the end of the austrian carving video.  They are focused on stuff more relevant to airy fairy mamby pamby warm and fuzzy teaching approaches, which is practically all that PSIA has focused on for a number of years, so maybe that's to be expected, but I am still sitting here waiting for them to define their technique, which they again skated out of doing for another 4 years.  meanwhile their analysis of the austrian carving video was to also talk about how that particular instructor referred to this or that feeling, connected to feelings, etc, the way he went about his lesson..which was in my estimation merely that particularly instructor's style and teaching mastery, not anything of any relevance whatsoever to the techniques employed generally by the austrian ski instruction system.  We learned nothing at all about their ski technique, only that our D team could appreciate that particular clinician's style of laying it out which we could get just as easily ourselves from going to clinics in our own division with clinicians we know to be good  We sent them all the way to the furthest end of the earth to come back with that?  I hope they have more they are going to say later, so far... very underwhelmed by that information gathering, but I do think our PSIA leaders are really focused on that kind of stuff...the warm and fuzzy junk, and have been for a very long time, while neglecting technique issues.  Most of us, however, are eager to get real information sharing about WHAT the other countries are teaching for technique, what are the focuses, what are the movements, what is the pedagogy?  Does our team even know what pedagogy is?  I doubt it.  Having spent some time with CSIA I know that pedagogy is much more well established with them, and maybe they will come forward with some good comparative analysis, but I will be honest I was also underwhelmed by that 2011 comparative analysis which tried to be too politically correct rather then really laying it out there and getting into it. What I want to know is why each of the teams wasn't presenting their view of the world more directly and shared with all the rest of us that are stuck at home waiting to hear it.  Seems they were focused on being the prettiest syncro skiers.
  • regarding the skiing of the PSIA demo team, they are all great skiers in their own way, they wouldn't make the team otherwise.  SE or others, including myself may have opinions about how they are skiing, there are numerous things displayed in the videos so far, which admittedly are mostly syncro skiing; which represents NOT what I consider to be great skiing because of technique flaws.  They are performing that PSIA style of skiing as well as anybody...very very well...but the flaws in that technique are there to view and analyze though I would like to get some non syncro skiing to do that officially.  A lot of that discussion is entirely subjective, so I can have that subjective opinion and someone else can have a different view that highly prizes that approach and that is perfectly fine, but we need to at least make the raw unedited comparison to see what are the movement focuses that are different for each team, what things are they doing well, what things are causing problems, how can we all grow and progress globally by observing those things and talking about it openly, rather then protecting the egos of the superstars involved?   Since so far we have not seen any real video provided form interski for any of the national teams that will allow us to do that, I view the entire event as nothing but a big party for the teams to go there and have fun syncro skiing while avoiding that introspection and analysis  and real comparison between nations that needs to take place.
  • Two specific team members were mentioned, what I can see about JB is that he looks to be a pretty fantastic skier.  I did see a vide of him recently showing chinese ski instructors how to twist their legs. That made me very very sad.  But at least that was more indicative of what PSIA thinks we should be teaching then what we got from their interski lecture which is just a lot of abstract mumbo jumbo about layers of the human pyschy.
post #111 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
 

I will throw some gas on the fire here, some of you are going to react, but oh well...i hope PSIA leaders are listening...

 

I have also been quite dissapointed thus far with the amount of information leaking out from interski this year.  Hopefully more will come, maybe it will from canada.  My understanding is that internet reception was spotty there, and they are editing video now.  We'll see.  

 

My comments about what I saw with interski this year so far, in no particular order:

 

  • I think the syncro skiing is a completely self gratuitous thing that some of the ski teams focus on, its a waste of our dues money to train our team and send them there for that.  if their focus particularly not to the syncro skiing, then my hats off to them, because syncro skiing has nothing to do with PSIA, what we do as an organization or what we fund with our dues money.  I'm sure the D teams from all the countries have some fun with that in a competitive way and that's nice for them, but nearly all the video we saw coming from interski this year so far has been syncro skiing, which is an utter waste of time and resources.  Syncro skiing tends to dummy down everyone's fundamental turn technique in order to perform the sequences they are doing exactly in time or whatever.  They will not neccessarily be making their best or even their typical national standardized turns while syncro skiing and it kind of makes all the countries look the same too.  Its a complete waste of time for us as ski instructors to pay any attention to their syncro skiing party, and it was a waste of our dues for them to participate in it.
  • A lot of videos and still photos have circulated around showing poor skiing in these syncro events, across pretty much all of the teams.  Even the austrians and canadians, which are probably the best two teams, have people on their team that are stemming all over the place in their syncro skiing.  But read my previous comment, I think its foolish to even bother analyzing their syncro skiing, its not even representative of what each of them are capable of doing while just demoing one skier at a time, which is what we should be watching.
  • I was severely disappointed with the presentation that our PSIA team gave at interski in terms of what they presented.  I was equally disappointed with their comments at the end of the austrian carving video.  They are focused on stuff more relevant to airy fairy mamby pamby warm and fuzzy teaching approaches, which is practically all that PSIA has focused on for a number of years, so maybe that's to be expected, but I am still sitting here waiting for them to define their technique, which they again skated out of doing for another 4 years.  meanwhile their analysis of the austrian carving video was to also talk about how that particular instructor referred to this or that feeling, connected to feelings, etc, the way he went about his lesson..which was in my estimation merely that particularly instructor's style and teaching mastery, not anything of any relevance whatsoever to the techniques employed generally by the austrian ski instruction system.  We learned nothing at all about their ski technique, only that our D team could appreciate that particular clinician's style of laying it out which we could get just as easily ourselves from going to clinics in our own division with clinicians we know to be good  We sent them all the way to the furthest end of the earth to come back with that?  I hope they have more they are going to say later, so far... very underwhelmed by that information gathering, but I do think our PSIA leaders are really focused on that kind of stuff...the warm and fuzzy junk, and have been for a very long time, while neglecting technique issues.  Most of us, however, are eager to get real information sharing about WHAT the other countries are teaching for technique, what are the focuses, what are the movements, what is the pedagogy?  Does our team even know what pedagogy is?  I doubt it.  Having spent some time with CSIA I know that pedagogy is much more well established with them, and maybe they will come forward with some good comparative analysis, but I will be honest I was also underwhelmed by that 2011 comparative analysis which tried to be too politically correct rather then really laying it out there and getting into it. What I want to know is why each of the teams wasn't presenting their view of the world more directly and shared with all the rest of us that are stuck at home waiting to hear it.  Seems they were focused on being the prettiest syncro skiers.
  • regarding the skiing of the PSIA demo team, they are all great skiers in their own way, they wouldn't make the team otherwise.  SE or others, including myself may have opinions about how they are skiing, there are numerous things displayed in the videos so far, which admittedly are mostly syncro skiing; which represents NOT what I consider to be great skiing because of technique flaws.  They are performing that PSIA style of skiing as well as anybody...very very well...but the flaws in that technique are there to view and analyze though I would like to get some non syncro skiing to do that officially.  A lot of that discussion is entirely subjective, so I can have that subjective opinion and someone else can have a different view that highly prizes that approach and that is perfectly fine, but we need to at least make the raw unedited comparison to see what are the movement focuses that are different for each team, what things are they doing well, what things are causing problems, how can we all grow and progress globally by observing those things and talking about it openly, rather then protecting the egos of the superstars involved?   Since so far we have not seen any real video provided form interski for any of the national teams that will allow us to do that, I view the entire event as nothing but a big party for the teams to go there and have fun syncro skiing while avoiding that introspection and analysis  and real comparison between nations that needs to take place.
  • Two specific team members were mentioned, what I can see about JB is that he looks to be a pretty fantastic skier.  I did see a vide of him recently showing chinese ski instructors how to twist their legs. That made me very very sad.  But at least that was more indicative of what PSIA thinks we should be teaching then what we got from their interski lecture which is just a lot of abstract mumbo jumbo about layers of the human pyschy.

 

BTS, did you look at the 4-5 presentations from PSIA from Interski?  They are on the PSIA site, under community and library, or are you just pulling this from the 2 page handout?

 

Mike

post #112 of 117

I've been watching everything they come out with as they come out with it.  There may be something new since I last checked a few days ago, who knows.  if not I hope they will release more.

post #113 of 117

I've looked at everything coming from PSIA national.  I've checked the daily updates -- they were mostly comments from people like me asking for more, thus lacked any content.

Now that Interski is over I would like to see more beefy write-ups from our guys.  I hope they will come forth with some soon. 

 

Do these other countries' teams, when they do presentations, give handouts?  If not, do our team members make notes of some sort during or afterwards?  

We could enjoy reading those notes.  I would.  Or watching videos.


How about our team's presentations to the other countries' teams... I've seen the nice geometric diagrams.  I think there are two.  

Did our guys make only one presentation? If so, then I'd like to see a write-up with details added to those diagrams to give that information some teeth.

Whoever writes that stuff up for our (ski instructors, PSIA members) consumption should be given a medal, or paid by PSIA for the time.  

It takes effort to package the stuff that Interski produced.  Is PSIA committed to doing that for its members?  

Is making this info available to the membership done on a volunteer basis after the trip is over?  If so, shame on PSIA.

 

The video of the Austrian guy teaching kids to carve was fine.  More, please!  

I want to know what Italy, Canada, Japan, Gt. Britain, Australia, etc. had to offer in their presentations.

post #114 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
 
  • A lot of videos and still photos have circulated around showing poor skiing in these syncro events, across pretty much all of the teams.  Even the austrians and canadians, which are probably the best two teams, have people on their team that are stemming all over the place in their syncro skiing.  But read my previous comment, I think its foolish to even bother analyzing their syncro skiing, its not even representative of what each of them are capable of doing while just demoing one skier at a time, which is what we should be watching.

 

BTS, can you comment on what you would like to see in lieu of syncro? How would you like each nation to show their character? How should each nation show their awesomeness, and the stuff you will learn if you attend their awesome session?  

 

It would be interesting to understand why the synchro was sloppier this year for more teams (since, from the footage I saw, the performances looked much stronger in 2011). Was it because of budget cuts among all nations? Spending more money to travel to Ushuaia, and consequently having less money for the training? More serpientes de nieve in Chile? 

post #115 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

 

BTS, can you comment on what you would like to see in lieu of syncro? How would you like each nation to show their character? How should each nation show their awesomeness, and the stuff you will learn if you attend their awesome session?  

 

I would like to see them give serious presentations of the technique they espouse and demonstrate that.  Its also quite interesting for them to share ideas with each other (and pass along to us) about teaching kids, and all the pedagogy stuff...but what would be interesting is to have each team put some real thought into what ARE the things they teach that they want to present and actually present that...  Maybe they did that, don't know...we aren't hearing much about it here.  And then of course I'd love to see them all video taped performing various demonstrations...pretty much like the typical stuff we all have to do for our exams...and then perhaps an opportunity to also demonstrate their highest performance idea of what their particular technique can take a skier to..including both on and off piste.  

 

So that yes...we hear them talk about the specific techniques they are using and we see them demonstrate various stages of that technique all the way from low level maneuvers all the way up through the highest end skiing they can perform (hopefully still using the technique they espouse, which is not neccessarily a given).  But if they have spoken about what to look for and perform it, we will all be able to see if they practice what they preach all various levels.  We will all see pros and cons to all of the various system and be able to draw conclusions based on the information they share about what it is they are teaching and what their idealized demonstrations look like to do what they say they want to do.

 

Ski instruction is a professional business and that is our business.  How to present the information is interesting too, as well as sharing ideas about the business side, etc..  its all relevant.

 

All of the syncro skiing was just a huge distraction.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

It would be interesting to understand why the synchro was sloppier this year for more teams (since, from the footage I saw, the performances looked much stronger in 2011). Was it because of budget cuts among all nations? Spending more money to travel to Ushuaia, and consequently having less money for the training? More serpientes de nieve in Chile? 

 

I didn't see syncro skiing from 2011 so I can't comment about that really and I didn't pay that close attention to the syncro skiing this year either...  I want to see more serious demos with focus on the actual specific ski mechanics each nation believes in.

 

Some Italian team videos have been shown here in the past where some guy talks a lot about their ideas about skiing and they show some video of them performing what they believe in.  They practice what they preach.   That is what I would like to see every single nation spend 4 years preparing for the day they will go to the next interski prepared to give a similar presentation of their own philosophy about technique, about pedagogy for teaching that technique.  This is what sets ski teaching apart from other types of teaching, that actual technique and pedagogy of ski teaching.  There are thousands of resources in other places for us to learn all about learning models, general teaching models, learner types, learner pyschology, etc...  But the leaders of ski instructor orgs should be focused on specific pedagogy for teaching skiing and at interski, the top guys from every nation should be showing what they believe is the right way to ski and to teach about skiing.  Maybe some of that happens, but we haven't been able to see it.

post #116 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

 

BTS, can you comment on what you would like to see in lieu of syncro? How would you like each nation to show their character? How should each nation show their awesomeness, and the stuff you will learn if you attend their awesome session?  

 

It would be interesting to understand why the synchro was sloppier this year for more teams (since, from the footage I saw, the performances looked much stronger in 2011). Was it because of budget cuts among all nations? Spending more money to travel to Ushuaia, and consequently having less money for the training? More serpientes de nieve in Chile? 

 

Personally I think synchro has a rather paltry substance to relative to a world wide ski instruction convention as it is not being taught and nobody wants to learn it. (hopefully) I also get very little out of watching the best synchro teams in the world compared to watching youth, college and wc racing.  

 

You want to see a nation have their chance to show character/awesomeness, pride, dominance, etc.? ... and one that might be more relevant to ski technique, teaching and learning ?  Well then ... you got it!! It shall be replaced with a giant slalom race, immediately. Hopefully eventually in the L3 psia cert too.

post #117 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
....

BTS, can you comment on what you would like to see in lieu of syncro? How would you like each nation to show their character? How should each nation show their awesomeness, and the stuff you will learn if you attend their awesome session?  

 

It would be interesting to understand why the synchro was sloppier this year for more teams (since, from the footage I saw, the performances looked much stronger in 2011). Was it because of budget cuts among all nations? Spending more money to travel to Ushuaia, and consequently having less money for the training? More serpientes de nieve in Chile? 

 

That's probably because most of the teams hadn't been on snow together since last spring.  They may have had no time to practice together before getting there, and they may have been somewhat rusty from being away from snow all summer.  Somewhere I did read something along those lines.

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