Originally Posted by Atomicman
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet
In my day job's field (making visual art) many people champion working "like a child."
Trial and error, for these people, needs to be guided by "no-thinking" in order to free up the artist to discover things previously undiscovered, or to find some "truth" that supposedly isn't influenced by culture or concern for others.
I don't do that, as an artist or as an art teacher.
So when I hear people championing "ski like a child; you'll learn faster" (and/or more "naturally," thus better) I don't go for that either.
Trial and error is essential. But it's not the only game in town. If it were, then teaching would simply be a job for facilitating serendipity.
Serendipity is good too, but but but...........
Conscious deliberate effort while standing on the shoulders of giants is also a very strong program for seeing further.
That is not what most folks I have discussed this with are saying.
The difference is in visualizing the task at hand. Children look at the whole picture and not individual parts and copy the WHOLE of the movement.
Adults break things down into little parts. Ok, I move this arm here then push on this ski and then bend this knee.
I believe you get a better outcome looking at the whole and trying to copy that,
So yeah, ski like a child~
How about this example: create round turns by establishing new edges and getting the body to cross over the skis - all of this above the fall line.
1. Follow me, watch me, visualize yourself doing what I do, and do it yourself (broadest focus; no verbal description).
2. Watch me. When I did what I just did, my goal was to tip the skis onto their new edges above the fall line, with my body crossing over the skis to the downhill side, so I could create round turns. So follow me, let my goal be your goal, visualize yourself having success, and do what I do (a broad, holistic focus with a verbal description about the goal, but no body parts descriptors).
3. Watch me. When I do those turns, I'm doing two things. I'm flattening/tipping my skis onto their new edges. As I do this, I get my body to cross over to the downhill side of my skis. I make all this happen before the skis turn to point downhill. Show me the first thing; use trial and error and visualization to figure out how to do this. Show me the second thing combined with the first thing; use trial and error.... Now put them together (whole thing broken into a few component parts, again without reference to body parts).
4. Cut up the pie (round turns, new edges above the fall line, CoM crossing skis above fall line) in different ways; create baby steps, one at a time, and build on the successful ones. Say it, show it, try it static, get responses from learner, work up to the whole thing slowly at the learner's pace (an analytical approach, potentially with drills and deliberate attention to body parts as well as what the skis are doing and what turn shape is resulting). (This is not like a child at all).
5. .. or is it? I've been watching my 7 month old grandson try to figure out how to crawl. It's coming in "baby steps" which are totally all about moving different body parts at different times. He can do a plank, but the sequential moving of one hand before the other, or one knee before the other, has not yet occurred to him in his trial-and-error work. He can plop down on his stomach and rise again into a plank, but he usually travels backwards when he does this. It's clearly his goal to move forward. He's too non-verbal for verbal prompts, and his watch-and-do skills are also undeveloped, so those gateways to learning faster are closed to him. If they were open, I bet he'd take advantage of them. He desperately wants to travel forward.
For some skiers I don't think a better outcome will come from looking at the whole and trying to copy what's going on, described in #1 above.