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Why all the hate for the rockered mantra? - Page 2

post #31 of 55

Volkl's marketing strategy is a bit odd. Especially when you look at next year's skis. What is the difference between these?

 

 

post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by phishnerd View Post
 

Volkl's marketing strategy is a bit odd. Especially when you look at next year's skis. What is the difference between these?

 

                                   V-Werks Katana    Kendo     Mantra                                   

                              90Eight              100Eight                100Eight W

 

Katana is a carbon layup that is just as good as going down the hill as it is skiing up

 

Kendo (90mm) new shape and profile for this coming season, think if it is a dampened Brahma

 

Mantra, well we know about that, zero camber and a mot more versatile than the outgoing model

 

90Eight,  have not skied yet, no metal light weight. According to what I hear at Volkl that all their skis under 100mm will have camber, so this should have camber

 

100Eight/100EightW, WOW one of the pleasant surprises of the 2016 ski test.

 

The latter three are all new and I think they are welcome additions to the Volkl line and I think they are some of the better constructions they have offered. 

post #33 of 55
Thread Starter 
So the mantra is going back to a cambered ski?
post #34 of 55

Play on words.......is the 90Eight actually 98mm width and 100Eight is 108mm?  (Yes, I'm using my Stupid Question Coupon for today).

 

Also: how would the 90Eight and Mantra co-exist in the same category?  Assuming same as NRGY and Enforcer?  One for lighter/easier use, and one for heavier/athletic use??

 


Interesting how the outgoing Mantra was, well, an abomination that Volkl swept under the rug and has remedied.

post #35 of 55
Thread Starter 
I think I'll just order these at $593 otd with free shipping.
http://www.skiessentials.com/2014-volkl-mantra-skis-european-edition-w-griffon-13-bindings.html

And be done with it.
post #36 of 55
Well there you go. I would think you'd try it girst to see. They are everywhere to demo.
I do know someone who skis it daily in east. He's not a tail pusher, but a Volkl pusher. (rep)
post #37 of 55

I skied the new Kendo, Manta, and RTM 84 on Demo Day at Sun Valley last weekend.

I skied the 177 in each. I hated the RTM 84, but I liked the Mantra and Kendo.

The Mantra skis short for me, however, they were so easy to turn in the fine Sun Valley corn.

I ski the Old mantra, and liked the new just as much. Its not as stiff, but it is solid

. I am 6 feet tall. I skied the Blizzard Bonafide (180) and the Stockli Stormrider 95 (183)

as well. I liked them all. 

post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type3SnoBlader View Post
 

People tend to hate on it because Volkl took a very popular/successful ski and basically completely changed it....seemingly just to change it, not actually make it better. Classic case of over thinking the wheel, IMO. That's been my observation anyway. But, if you like the new version who really cares, right?

I know what you mean, fans rightfully feel betrayed by Volkl.  If you want ELP get the Gotama, DUH!

 

Last month whilst demoing skis on my dime on a whim I tried the 193 (I think) new Mantra and it was just too big the shop did not have the 180something length available.  Too bad as it was a sweet blizzardy day with fresh tracks and free refills.

 

PS, I see way too many skiers out on the blacks, Mantras firmly stem-cristie-d into action.  A lot of heel pushers, agile and strong athletes shaving bumps into the dreaded zeds.  I watch Mantra riders glowingly describe their beloved boards then observe them traverse between turns seeking a turn they can perform.

 

IOW, many a Mantra fan cannot use the ski.  There was a great review about the Mantra somewhere that declared the Mantra will expose you, are you truly an expert?  

 

The new Mantra is for those self declared experts who need to release the tails instead of load them up.  Too bad Volkl left the true experts out in the cold.

 

But hey, if Nordica can bring the Enforcer back Volkl can reneg too.


Edited by Buttinski - 3/18/15 at 9:09am
post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke21079 View Post

I'm coning off Elan 88xti and I have a set of groomer zoomers for playing around but want something in the 98-106 range for trips out west.

The polarity between camber and rocker is the primary factor in deciding what you like.

 

Do you charge on your edges and finish turns jumping off that lovely tail spring?

 

Are you more of a smearer looking for an easy tail release in the chop and steeps?

 

Playful means (usually) easier to pivot. - 2015 Mantra

 

Stable implies edge hold at speed. - 2014 and before Mantra

post #40 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post

The polarity between camber and rocker is the primary factor in deciding what you like.

Do you charge on your edges and finish turns jumping off that lovely tail spring?

Are you more of a smearer looking for an easy tail release in the chop and steeps?

Playful means (usually) easier to pivot. - 2015 Mantra

Stable implies edge hold at speed. - 2014 and before Mantra
Great explanation, I am definitely not a smearer.
post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post
 

PS, I see way too many skiers out on the blacks, Mantras firmly stem-cristie-d into action.  A lot of heel pushers, agile and strong athletes shaving bumps into the dreaded zeds.  I watch Mantra riders glowingly describe their beloved boards then observe them traverse between turns seeking a turn they can perform.

 

IOW, many a Mantra fan cannot use the ski.  There was a great review about the Mantra somewhere that declared the Mantra will expose you, are you truly an expert?  

 

The new Mantra is for those self declared experts who need to release the tails instead of load them up.  Too bad Volkl left the true experts out in the cold.

 

There's the elitism that I've come to expect from this site.  Surprised it took this long.

post #42 of 55

BTW - I didn't mean to imply that if you like this version of the Mantra you're a tail-pusher, just that tail-pushers will probably like them more.  I know a very good skier who rips on them... so everyone has their different tastes.

post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by St Bear View Post
 

 

There's the elitism that I've come to expect from this site.  Surprised it took this long.

LOL, Thanks

Personally I'm the schmearer.  I never bought, or even tried the old school Mantra because of the big ass tail, fully down against whatever you glide past.

 

When you're doing it it ain't bragging.  I know a few experts adept at sending lines that have the Mantra sing, I am not among their numbers.  Groveling down the steeps overedging and shoulder driving the turns is not pretty, elitist or not, it is painful to watch for me, hence my complaint.

post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by St Bear View Post
 

 

There's the elitism that I've come to expect from this site.  Surprised it took this long.

 

People on this site,  by posting here, are automatically cured of heel pushing;) 

 

I did think the previous gen Mantra was too much ski for 90% of the people skiing it; the folks who are 5 day a year groomer skiers but have to have "the best". You know the type.  But that could be said about a lot of skiers. People buy skis for the skier they wish they were and aim to be, not the skier they currently are. 

post #45 of 55
Wasn't tbe number one complaint against the cambered Mantra, (love how it's called "old school"), was that the tail was "hooky"?
Those who liked it would probably say it had a tail that worked.

Anybody ski the several years old Elan 999? That was full camber and relatively beefy. I've never skied it but wonder how it compared to the old Mantra.
post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerbob View Post
 

I've skied my fair share of heavy, burly, and fast big boy skis....rockered and cambered.  And yes, I've skied the previous non-rockered Mantra as well for comparison.   I thought the previous Mantra was good (I preferred the Experience 98 for harder-snow oriented and the Bonafide for softer-snow oriented, in those widths for comparison).  But Holy CRAP the rockered Mantra felt like riding a dump truck.  Didn't really have a sweet spot, didn't respond to driving the tips, was too unwieldy for bumps, couldn't carve as well as many other wider all-mountain skis, swing weight was akin to a frigate.  Thought it was me, but I've talked to a few people who felt similar experiences on it.  I'm not sure who the rockered Mantra is targeted to, but definitely not me.

 

I won't say I hated it, but I severely disliked it.  Couldn't wait to take it back to the demo hut.  

 

My $0.02 worth, but that's what I honestly felt about it, since you asked.

 

Holy crap, I was with @Gunnerbob when he demoed that tank. It was down right ponderous on his feet. It just didn't seem to want to follow his input. I wouldn't call it vague,it was rather unwiedly (sp). We were skiing on harder snow with some loose stuff on top. 

post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

People on this site,  by posting here, are automatically cured of heel pushing;). 

Just when I thought I was posting too much on this site, it turns out I haven't been posting enough.
post #48 of 55

The people who are down on the new Mantra are people who have beat to hell old ones and now have to figure out what to replace them with. Generally speaking it seems like most manufacturers, when they tweak a design, aim for the same people who liked the old design. Volkl seems to be changing the target buyers, something they did some years back with the Gotama, which I believe didn't work out that well for them. For that matter Volkl did that with the Mantra in the past I believe--widening and stiffening them over a couple of generations before this latest reversal (ha ha I made a pun.) 

post #49 of 55
Which was worse, err...a more dramatic change. The cambered Gotama to the next generation or the cambered Mantra to the next generation?

The annoyance with Volkl is that it has had a history of radically changing skis people liked in this century.
post #50 of 55
I have and love the new Mantras, I wish I was able to ski them more. I go narrow except in fresh snow which hasn't appeared here much this year. But I've had the Mantras out on carving days and don't find the lack of camber to be a hindrance. I find them to be quick, lively and extremely versatile if bent properly (sorry). I might point out most of my ski days are spent on cambered skis.

I do find the Mantra bashing to be, well, kind of fun.
post #51 of 55

Actually I did demo the current Gotama and found the lack of camber to be.......manageable.  I didn't mind it, but it didn't wow me either.  I much preferred the Goats to the Mantras though.  

 

Apparently I prefer a damp ski with camber, some tip/tail rise that's not too heavy/stiff, and not designed for the intermediate skidder.  I ended up buying the Head Collective 105, which has those characteristics and made me smile and had a blast on them.  They're not exactly lightweight, but such a smooth ride even without the metal.  Seems I'm becoming a Head convert.

 

To each their own, eh? ;) 

post #52 of 55

IME, a fully rockered or flat ski is just fine in soft snow. It's on groomers or packed snow that they start feeling greasy. 

post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerbob View Post
 

Play on words.......is the 90Eight actually 98mm width and 100Eight is 108mm?  (Yes, I'm using my Stupid Question Coupon for today).

 

Also: how would the 90Eight and Mantra co-exist in the same category?  Assuming same as NRGY and Enforcer?  One for lighter/easier use, and one for heavier/athletic use??

 


Interesting how the outgoing Mantra was, well, an abomination that Volkl swept under the rug and has remedied.

 

Mantra: 2 sheets of metal  
90 eight: no metal...
post #54 of 55
Well @snowbowler rocks the new Mantra and he's definitely not a tail pusher.
post #55 of 55

I've been vocal about how pleased I've been with the new Mantras here in the past. Now that I've put an entire season on them, I'm a little more refined on my opinion of them.

 

To begin with, I too see a lot of unskilled skiers on them. But no more than any other ski. Skilled skiers are still rare amongst the recreational crowd. To be sure, the new Mantra is friendlier than the previous version, but that doesn't mean tail pushers and intermediates will be happy on them. In fact, the tail is still quite substantial and the ski does NOT reward backseat driving at all.

 

Yes its a big stiff fast burly ski. 99% of skiers are simply unable to overpower it. This style of skiing is not suited to everyone but does suit some. The full rocker means, because its essentially pre-bent, you get to ski this type of ski while still having it be reasonably accessible. I think the ski absolutely does reward good technique even if it is a little less punishing of mistakes.

 

I believe the ski's strength is in soft snow and mixed conditions. I did ski them quite successfully on hardpack, but due to this season's unrelenting snow conditions I did move to a much narrower piste ski for groomers. I have the luxury of affording a quiver though.

 

In the end I still think the Mantra is an incredibly versatile and capable ski. You can drive it, smear it, carve it, and for how burly it is its really quite nimble. But it's not for everyone. It's still a LOT of ski and my one recommendation to those considering them is to not be quick to size up on these.

 

LZ

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