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Short Radius turns MA - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 


More ball of foot at the start, work your way back to more heel at the end.


Exactly. Plantar flex to initiate the turn, (read extend down the hill) and let the turn build as pressure moves back while the turn develops.

 

Now if I can just get my brain to translate that to my feet real time..

 

DC

post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 

And we are supposed to NOT take this as skidding is bad.. being railed /pure carve is pretty much the only way to ski (unless you are going to hit something)

 

Maybe it is a little bit of me being defensive but the way you come off when giving feedback sure doesn't help.

You are still interpreting how you prefer. When I say that skidding is useless 95% of the time, I leave open that using effective skidding can be helpful in about 5% of an expert free skier's turns. Depending on multiple variables, A racer may need to pivot up to 10% of their GS race turns. Off-piste/mogul/steeps were always excluded from these comments. While they may put skid in all of their turns, there number of runs in the East vs number of groomer runs are about at 5%. I have never said anything about carving 100% of the time for anyone which is impossible. Again, you are responding to the Atomic Bloviator who likes literally re-write what is said through a rampage of suspiciously interpretive ears.  It has always been my stance that a skier should skid ONLY when they are not able to carve through a turn effectively or safely. The theory I am suggesting is that if a skier wants to get better, they need to push the envelope of not just speed and difficulty of terrain but of ski performance as well. There is obviously a pervasive stance against carving here and I am not in that camp, do not agree and am rightful to my own opinion. For the most part, I make an effort to screen my words from any perceivable attack against anyone's specific words or individual personality but cannot see or control anyone's predisposition against carving turns. 

 

On the other hand, I have no idea why you would have any issue whatsoever with what I posted here in this thread in regards to your MA especially when most or all of the following replies have

followed suit. I have been respectful and complimentary with a detailed effort at honing in on what I thought you were looking for. I am confident that I infuse enough adjectives and descriptors that should leave very little room for reading between the lines.

post #33 of 46
Quote:
There is obviously a pervasive stance against carving here and I am not in that camp, do not agree and am rightful to my own opinion...
Truly a first!
Sorry, you know not of what you speak. You lost your listening with the op ages ago with some out there posts. I think he made a fair interpretation of your words. The back tracking so far hasn't changed much. Maybe just say what you mean. The justification and carving stats don't do much and aren't really applicable in a personal ma thread.
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post


Truly a first!
Sorry, you know not of what you speak. You lost your listening with the op ages ago with some out there posts. I think he made a fair interpretation of your words. The back tracking so far hasn't changed much. Maybe just say what you mean. The justification and carving stats don't do much and aren't really applicable in a personal ma thread.

Tog, my stance on carving/skidding is an unrelated subject that he he brought into this thread from another thread all together to in some way resolve his response to my original MA which stands up fine in the light of all following responses as far as what I read directly above. Your comments are nothing but further distraction from MA which is the reason behind this thread. So, pop your head in and out as you please but do not think that airing your own dismay regarding something you are not part of is going to be helpful to anyone.

post #35 of 46

mod note - gentlemen - that is enough

post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post


Exactly. Plantar flex to initiate the turn, (read extend down the hill) and let the turn build as pressure moves back while the turn develops.

Now if I can just get my brain to translate that to my feet real time..

DC

Go ski a bunch of shallow terrain, David, and focus on opening the ankle joints to begin each turn. Take it to gradually steeper terrain with tipping and focus on engaging the tip of the new inside ski as you continue to open the ankle joints at initiation. You don't actually put a lot of pressure on that tip, but the movement that would get it engaged (COM going toward turn apex or pulling the foot back, whichever is the sensation that works for you ) does the trick.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post


Go ski a bunch of shallow terrain, David, and focus on opening the ankle joints to begin each turn. Take it to gradually steeper terrain with tipping and focus on engaging the tip of the new inside ski as you continue to open the ankle joints at initiation. You don't actually put a lot of pressure on that tip, but the movement that would get it engaged (COM going toward turn apex or pulling the foot back, whichever is the sensation that works for you ) does the trick.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 


Exactly. Plantar flex to initiate the turn, (read extend down the hill) and let the turn build as pressure moves back while the turn develops.

 

Now if I can just get my brain to translate that to my feet real time..

 

DC

I'm a bit confused.  I know what ankle plantar flexion and dorsi flexion are.  I thought I knew what opening and closing the ankle means.   I also thought I wanted to dorsi flex (close the ankle) thus having tip pressure at turn initiation but these two postings do not make sense.  Please clarify.  YM

post #38 of 46
Thread Starter 
For me, plantar flex or open joints at init has to do with a trigger to open all the joints at initiation. Once all the joints open and the edge change happens, then progressively guide the ski onto its edge and begin to pressure the front of the ski/boot as you move into the turn and steer the skis.
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post

For me, plantar flex or open joints at init has to do with a trigger to open all the joints at initiation. Once all the joints open and the edge change happens, then progressively guide the ski onto its edge and begin to pressure the front of the ski/boot as you move into the turn and steer the skis.

I'd say it's all happening a little sooner  relative to the transition for me but that's my sense.  Sometimes what we think is going on is not really what's happening.  I guess we would have ski together to hash out our differences in interpretation.  Thanks.  YM 

post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post


Go ski a bunch of shallow terrain, David, and focus on opening the ankle joints to begin each turn. Take it to gradually steeper terrain with tipping and focus on engaging the tip of the new inside ski as you continue to open the ankle joints at initiation. You don't actually put a lot of pressure on that tip, but the movement that would get it engaged (COM going toward turn apex or pulling the foot back, whichever is the sensation that works for you ) does the trick.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 


Exactly. Plantar flex to initiate the turn, (read extend down the hill) and let the turn build as pressure moves back while the turn develops.

 

Now if I can just get my brain to translate that to my feet real time..

 

DC

I'm a bit confused.  I know what ankle plantar flexion and dorsi flexion are.  I thought I knew what opening and closing the ankle means.   I also thought I wanted to dorsi flex (close the ankle) thus having tip pressure at turn initiation but these two postings do not make sense.  Please clarify.  YM

Good question.

 

See this thread, from 2010, post 22, : http://www.epicski.com/t/90579/where-do-we-want-our-hips-over-our-feet-why-do-we-want-to-move-our-hips-forward

 

Also from 2011:  http://www.epicski.com/t/99527/reconciling-foot-squirt-with-foragonal-movements

 

And from 2007 and long: http://www.epicski.com/t/56128/a-tale-of-three-turns/90

 

There's other's too but they escape me at the moment.

Also the slo mo's in my post from today have some good images:

Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post

For me, plantar flex or open joints at init has to do with a trigger to open all the joints at initiation. Once all the joints open and the edge change happens, then progressively guide the ski onto its edge and begin to pressure the front of the ski/boot as you move into the turn and steer the skis.

If the edge change occurs as the joints are opening, you'll get that top-of-the-turn engagement. If you maintain shin-cuff contact while opening the joints, you can adjust pressure forward at will.
post #42 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

If the edge change occurs as the joints are opening, you'll get that top-of-the-turn engagement. If you maintain shin-cuff contact while opening the joints, you can adjust pressure forward at will.
Agreed. The opening of the joints does not mean lose cuff contact. I am however working on going "cuff neutral"
post #43 of 46
Thread Starter 

Some more short radius turns.

 

Donners way at Sugarbowl off Jerome hill. medium soft packed powder.

post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 

Some more short radius turns.

 

Donners way at Sugarbowl off Jerome hill. medium soft packed powder.


Nice, smooth and relaxed turns!

post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
 

Some more short radius turns.

 

Donners way at Sugarbowl off Jerome hill. medium soft packed powder.

Solid skiing. I saw this thread a while ago without commenting, but I got inspired to say something when I saw your L3 thread. The biggest opportunity for improvement is IMO the timing of the release. Now you have a relatively hard edge set quite late in the turn. If you try to start releasing/flexing the outside leg already at the fall line or slightly after you will find that the ride is much smoother, and that you would have much earlier pressure in the next turn. When you start to flex you should still continue to increase hip angulation and counter, kind of "leading the next turn with you upper body".

A small detail about you pole plant. I think you are reaching a bit too much now and that it messes a bit with your counter. 

post #46 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thanks. Good thoughts.

Those turns are now long in the past😜 Thankfully.

Wish I had some newer video.

Just after this video, I started with playing with a similar timing to your comment. As the skis are reaching the apex, fall line, I am already thinking about releasing the old edges. I have been finding that by the time that intent reaches my feet, and the snow, the skis have already started across the hill and I'm already crossing over, or my feet are already way past where I want them.

DC
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