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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › When tuning to 1/3 base/side bevels, the effective angle is actually 88 degrees not 87 degrees right?
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When tuning to 1/3 base/side bevels, the effective angle is actually 88 degrees not 87 degrees right?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

Because the 3 degree guide is square against the 0 degree base not the 1 degree base bevel? So when everyone reccomends 1/3 for east coast ice they are in fact recommending an overall 88 degree angled ski edge? 

post #2 of 21
Yes
post #3 of 21

uh-oh.

So what's 87?

post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

uh-oh.

So what's 87?

The side edge angle from vertical with a 0 degree base edge

post #5 of 21

OK.  Translate, please.

 

Is 87 a 4-degree or a 2-degree edge bevel?  

I've always thought 87 was a 3, until this thread.

 

It shouldn't matter, but the base bevel is 1-degree.

My file guide glides along the ptex, not the 1-degree metal base edge.

 

Did I get my math wrong again?

post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

OK.  Translate, please.

 

Is 87 a 4-degree or a 2-degree edge bevel?  

I've always thought 87 was a 3, until this thread.

 

It shouldn't matter, but the base bevel is 1-degree.

My file guide glides along the ptex, not the 1-degree metal base edge.

 

Did I get my math wrong again?

 

If you have an 87 degree file guide, that's used for putting a 3 degree edge bevel on the ski.

 

borpborp wasn't talking about a file guide when he/she said 88 degrees, but the actual physical angle of the ski edge once you're done tuning.

post #7 of 21
As Atomicman says, the edge bevel is relative to a 0 degree base bevel since the file guide uses the ski base (not the ski edge).

The net angle of the edge is simply the edge bevel plus the base bevel.

Hence an 87 edge bevel and a 0 base bevel gives you a net edge angle of 87 (87 + 0). An 87 edge bevel with a 1 base bevel gives a net edge angle of 88 (87 + 1).
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaobrien6 View Post
 

 

If you have an 87 degree file guide, that's used for putting a 3 degree edge bevel on the ski.

 

borpborp wasn't talking about a file guide when he/she said 88 degrees, but the actual physical angle of the ski edge once you're done tuning.


Thanks.  That makes sense.

post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaobrien6 View Post
 

 

If you have an 87 degree file guide, that's used for putting a 3 degree SIDE edge bevel on the ski.

 

borpborp wasn't talking about a file guide when he/she said 88 degrees, but the actual physical angle of the ski edge once you're done tuning.

FIFY

post #10 of 21

So the bevel guide to be used for tuning depends on which angle, side or base, was set first?

 

Maybe it is standard practice to set the base first, but if the side angle is set first on a flat base, you would need a side angle guide that is minus the base angle, i.e. a 3d side would require an 88d guide.

post #11 of 21
Since the side edge guide is on the base itself, (as opposed to the metal edge), changes in the base bevel will not impact the side edge ANGLE, only the effective angle, which we talk don't discuss when talking tuning. You're not using the beveled base to set the side edge angle, you're using the p-tex base.
post #12 of 21
The only times I've seen references to a net angle are in theoretical discussions, because what matters is the angle of the base edge to the base (which determines how quickly the edge engages when you tip the ski) and of the side edge to the snow (which determines how firmly or aggressively the edge grips once it is engaged). Two different things. Just to make it easier to track, we talk about the "base bevel", and the (side) "edge angle."
post #13 of 21

Boy this is sounding over complicated.

 

Look at it this way.  a 1 and 1 base/side bevel form a 90 degree edge, just like a 0 and 0 would.

 

A 3 and 3 would also be a 90 degree edge.

 

So 1 and 3 is 88 degrees.  The 87 degree side edge bevel guide, as others have said is the effective angle relative to the base itself.  Not the base edge.

post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

Boy this is sounding over complicated.

 

Look at it this way.  a 1 and 1 base/side bevel form a 90 degree edge, just like a 0 and 0 would.

 

A 3 and 3 would also be a 90 degree edge.

 

So 1 and 3 is 88 degrees.  The 87 degree side edge bevel , as others have said is the effective (actual  angle of the side edge only) relative to the base itself.  Not the base edge.

FIFY

post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

The only times I've seen references to a net angle are in theoretical discussions, because what matters is the angle of the base edge to the base (which determines how quickly the edge engages when you tip the ski) and of the side edge to the snow (which determines how firmly or aggressively the edge grips once it is engaged). Two different things. Just to make it easier to track, we talk about the "base bevel", and the (side) "edge angle."

:bs:

post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Smoovee View Post
 

So the bevel guide to be used for tuning depends on which angle, side or base, was set first?

 

Maybe it is standard practice to set the base first, but if the side angle is set first on a flat base, you would need a side angle guide that is minus the base angle, i.e. a 3d side would require an 88d guide.

NO!

post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

The only times I've seen references to a net angle are in theoretical discussions, because what matters is the angle of the base edge to the base (which determines how quickly the edge engages when you tip the ski) and of the side edge to the snow (which determines how firmly or aggressively the edge grips once it is engaged). Two different things. Just to make it easier to track, we talk about the "base bevel", and the (side) "edge angle."
BSmeter.gif
Would you care to elaborate? Or just continue to flame without explaining yourself?
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Would you care to elaborate? Or just continue to flame without explaining yourself?  :D

The only times I've seen references to a net angle are in theoretical discussions, because what matters is the angle of the base edge to the base (which determines how quickly the edge engages when you tip the ski) and of the side edge to the snow (which determines how firmly or aggressively the edge grips once it is engaged). Partially True................ But the fact this this creates a more   acute angle cannot be ignored as the at least a partial basis for providing a lot more edge grip. Two different things. Just to make it easier to track, we talk about the "base bevel", and the (side) "edge angle." This is just plain false!  Side edge bevel is called side edge bevel. In fact SVST calls their side edge  tool the Pro Edge Beveler. 

 

From The Beast Tuning tools:  Side of BEAST is a professional quality ski tuning tool that bevels and sharpens ski side edges. This edge bevel tool is built with a durable anodized aluminum frame for precision, and a stainless steel face plate for a smooth glide over the ski base. It comes with your choice of bevel angle plate which can be interchanged with additional optional angle plates.

 

Side edge bevel is side edge bevel......Base edge bevel is base edge bevel! 

post #19 of 21
Thanks for the explanation.
post #20 of 21

And just for fun---one of my edge guides is marked 88 and one is marked 3.

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

And just for fun---one of my edge guides is marked 88 and one is marked 3.

 

88 is 2

87 is 3

 

 

(I assume you know that oldgoat, just saying it for other readers of this thread.)

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › When tuning to 1/3 base/side bevels, the effective angle is actually 88 degrees not 87 degrees right?