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Racing ski advice

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 

Hey guys I just decided to start racing GS for the first time. I want to get the best pair for me that I can handle and ski as fast as possible obviously.

 

38 years old. 5.6 feet and 154 lbs.(A bit chubby) Expert level, aggressive skier. Can handle any terrain and am a fast skier. My problem is that I have never raced.  Plan to take some classes, get the feel, and race with guys in "beer league" I think the terrain will be "not the real deal" meaning NOT as steep as a usual GS race piste.

 

I am a long time Volkl fan so I'll ask within their range of skis. I appreciate any other brand/model recommendations as well.

 

Considering my abilities/age/size etc which ski and what size do you think I should get? 

 

The real deal GS Stock World Cup  http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racing-skis/racetiger-speedwall-gs-r.html (Maybe a little shorter than pro racers use ?)

 

The Cheat? one http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racetiger/rt-speedwall-gs-uvo.html

 

OR

 

the  SL stock World Cup  with or without UVO  http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racetiger/racetiger-sl-race-stock-wc.html 

 

You can view all of them here :

 

http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racetiger/overview.html

 

Thanks for your answers.

post #2 of 56
The cheater GS. It's designed specifically to do what you're proposing.
post #3 of 56

  I would find out if there is a day to demo a bunch of skis.  Either that or rent some race skis.  Most ski areas have race skis that can be rented and if its a slow day you could switch to several.  Try out a bunch then see what you like.  Don't buy anything till you try it first.  Skis are expensive even on the 2nd hand market.  FIS skis are usually really cheap on the 2nd hand market but again I would try them first.  World Cup FIS skis might not even be something you can ski.

post #4 of 56

When you said you're going to "start racing GS", what exactly do you mean?  Is there a beer league that you're joining?  Is their course just NASTAR?  Is this master's racing?

 

Have you attended the races of the group you're joining as a spectator to see what's on the feet of the fast people?

 

The race league I belong to is described as "GS", but in reality, it's panel slalom -- i.e., GS panel gates, but set so close that you really need slalom skis to make it through.  The other beer race league here in eastern Massachusetts is also described as GS, but it's just NASTAR, so the "weapon of choice" is wildly different.  Master's GS race courses are another animal altogether.

 

My point is that "GS" means wildly different things in the context of recreational racing.  Without knowing some basics of the course set, length, etc. -- you have no idea what you really want in terms of skis.

post #5 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

  I would find out if there is a day to demo a bunch of skis.  Either that or rent some race skis.  Most ski areas have race skis that can be rented and if its a slow day you could switch to several.  Try out a bunch then see what you like.  Don't buy anything till you try it first.  Skis are expensive even on the 2nd hand market.  FIS skis are usually really cheap on the 2nd hand market but again I would try them first.  World Cup FIS skis might not even be something you can ski.

My problem is that I don't have the chance to doing demos where I live... You're right about skis being expensive, that's why I want to pick the best / or "good enough" one, by doing some research.. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 

When you said you're going to "start racing GS", what exactly do you mean?  Is there a beer league that you're joining?  Is their course just NASTAR?  Is this master's racing?

 

Have you attended the races of the group you're joining as a spectator to see what's on the feet of the fast people?

 

The race league I belong to is described as "GS", but in reality, it's panel slalom -- i.e., GS panel gates, but set so close that you really need slalom skis to make it through.  The other beer race league here in eastern Massachusetts is also described as GS, but it's just NASTAR, so the "weapon of choice" is wildly different.  Master's GS race courses are another animal altogether.

 

My point is that "GS" means wildly different things in the context of recreational racing.  Without knowing some basics of the course set, length, etc. -- you have no idea what you really want in terms of skis.

Unfortunately, I don't have many details. I don't live in the States so I guessed the closest would be beer league. I just found out that the distance of the gates are about 17-20 meters. So I should probably cross out the world cup options and go from there... 

 

Thanks

post #6 of 56

If you like Volkl's just get their cheater GS ski, just a matter of picking what length you want. A few guys at our area have them and really like them.

post #7 of 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless View Post
 

My problem is that I don't have the chance to doing demos where I live... You're right about skis being expensive, that's why I want to pick the best / or "good enough" one, by doing some research.. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't have many details. I don't live in the States so I guessed the closest would be beer league. I just found out that the distance of the gates are about 17-20 meters. So I should probably cross out the world cup options and go from there... 

 

Thanks

 

  Most ski areas have high performance rentals.  Even if you cannot make a demo see if the ski area might have something to rent.  It might surprise you what is available.  The ski area I work at had Rossignol Hero (in st, lt, and masters), Volkl, Head, Elan, Atomic, Blizzard and a few others that were Slalom and GS specific.  So I have been trying quite a few different skis lately.  What someone recommends on a forum might not be what you like at all.

 

  Beer league skis are perfect for Nastar type courses that is what they are made for.  Unfortunately World Cup, FIS skis are easy to find cheep previous years models for GS.  This is sort of the reason I ended up with them.  A good cheater ski I am finding is not all that cheap.  Also you can usually identify a cheater ski quick because most all of them do not have race plates.  Other than the Rossignol Master I don't know of another cheater ski with a race plate and the masters are not geared toward Nastar.

post #8 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

Quote:

 

  Most ski areas have high performance rentals.  Even if you cannot make a demo see if the ski area might have something to rent.  It might surprise you what is available.  The ski area I work at had Rossignol Hero (in st, lt, and masters), Volkl, Head, Elan, Atomic, Blizzard and a few others that were Slalom and GS specific.  So I have been trying quite a few different skis lately.  What someone recommends on a forum might not be what you like at all.

 

  Beer league skis are perfect for Nastar type courses that is what they are made for.  Unfortunately World Cup, FIS skis are easy to find cheep previous years models for GS.  This is sort of the reason I ended up with them.  A good cheater ski I am finding is not all that cheap.  Also you can usually identify a cheater ski quick because most all of them do not have race plates.  Other than the Rossignol Master I don't know of another cheater ski with a race plate and the masters are not geared toward Nastar.

Funny...I don't know of any cheaters that don't have a plate.  Odd.

 

http://www.atomic.com/en-US/Products/alpine/skis/race/REDSTER_DOUBLEDECK_3.0_GS/AASS00632.aspx?filter=

 

http://www.atomic.com/en-US/Products/alpine/skis/race/REDSTER_DOUBLEDECK_3.0_XT/AA0025240.aspx?filter=

 

http://www.atomic.com/en-US/Products/alpine/skis/fis-race/REDSTER_RS_DOUBLEDECK_3.0_GS/AA0025236.aspx?filter=

 

http://www.volkl.com/us/skis/alpine/racing-skis/racetiger-speedwall-gs-r.html

 

http://www.head.com/ski/products/skis/racing/worldcup-rebels-ispeed/7772/?region=eu

 

http://www.blizzardsportusa.com/detail/?categoria=race+rc&product_uid=104263&color_number=ORA

 

http://www.fischersports.com/en/Alpine/Products/Skis/Race/7013-RC4-Worldcup-RC-PRO

 

etc

post #9 of 56

    Other than Stoklie[ I'm sure I spelled that wrong] I don't know of a flat Nastar GS ski.

post #10 of 56

 

  I mean a world cup race plate... ironic enough even you linked to the world cup skis http://www.volkl.com/us/skis/alpine/racing-skis/racetiger-speedwall-gs-r.html?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email, the actual cheater of volkl looks like this: http://www.volkl.com/us/skis/alpine/racetiger/rt-speedwall-gs-uvo.html and does not have a world cup race plate.

 

  These do however as you stated: http://www.blizzardsportusa.com/detail/?categoria=race+rc&product_uid=104263&color_number=ORA

  and these: http://www.fischersports.com/en/Alpine/Products/Skis/Race/7013-RC4-Worldcup-RC-PRO <- ironic enough this is a masters ski which is what I stated.

 

So for the most part you do not see world cup race plates on cheaters but rarely I guess you do.  It was probably more of an assumption to help someone find skis at say a swap.  There are several other brands you didn't even mention, Nordica, Elan, Dynastar, Rossignol, Solomon, and many more.  I would bet its the same case with those as well.

post #11 of 56

Do the cheaters have the same plates as the FIS models?  Most probably do not.  But they do have race plates for the most part.  

 

I doubt any of the skis sold to the public have the same plate (or any thing else) as is being used on the World Cup but I could be wrong.

 

The Volkl skis I linked to include the 176/23 and 183/23, I guess you could call them "masters" but I think any non-FIS radius is a "cheater"

post #12 of 56

My .02  If you are just starting Nastar/Beer League then race on whatever you already have, as long as it isn't a waterski sized powder ski.   Then when the time comes to upgrade, pick up a perfectly good set of barely used set of cheaters from someone you race with for $300-400 instead of $1000.  Lots of guys I race with swap out skis every year and every few years I pick up a pair of their 1 year old perfectly good skis.

post #13 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
 

Do the cheaters have the same plates as the FIS models?  Most probably do not.  But they do have race plates for the most part.  

 

I doubt any of the skis sold to the public have the same plate (or any thing else) as is being used on the World Cup but I could be wrong.

 

The Volkl skis I linked to include the 176/23 and 183/23, I guess you could call them "masters" but I think any non-FIS radius is a "cheater"

 

  That was the exact point I was making.  Cheaters do not have the same plates as FIS models.  They may have some sort of floating binding or two plates they sit on but its not the world cup plates.  It is also very easy to see and identify a FIS ski easy that way.

 

  The only exception I see is that Blizzard which makes me want to try it.  Other than that the masters skis have the plates which are used on FIS models.  So the Fischer, and the Rossignol Hero Master... (maybe other masters I don't know about??)

post #14 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

 

  That was the exact point I was making.  Cheaters do not have the same plates as FIS models.  They may have some sort of floating binding or two plates they sit on but its not the world cup plates.  It is also very easy to see and identify a FIS ski easy that way.

 

  The only exception I see is that Blizzard which makes me want to try it.  Other than that the masters skis have the plates which are used on FIS models.  So the Fischer, and the Rossignol Hero Master... (maybe other masters I don't know about??)

Some do! You just keep them coming don't you. 

 

The D2 plate on my Non-FIS GS and my FIS GS is virtually identical!

post #15 of 56

Atomic Cheater and "Masters" if you want to call the 23M skis "Masters" have FIS type plates.

post #16 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

Some do! You just keep them coming don't you. 

 

The D2 plate on my Non-FIS GS and my FIS GS is virtually identical!


Really?  I have not seen any D2 that were not fis but then I am not an Atomicman...  Also as utagonian pointed out they probably are more for masters.

post #17 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 


Really?  I have not seen any D2 that were not fis but then I am not an Atomicman...  Also as utagonian pointed out they probably are more for masters.


15 & 17 meter radius for Masters?

 

This is the ski you want for beer league

 

http://www.atomic.com/en-US/Products/alpine/skis/race/REDSTER_DOUBLEDECK_3.0_XT/AA0025240.aspx?filter=

post #18 of 56

Yeah, I'm looking at my 2013 174 17m redsters right now and don't see any obvious difference in the plate that is on it vs a picture of the FIS version.  (None of which has anything to do with the beginning racer who started this thread)

post #19 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
 


15 & 17 meter radius for Masters?

 

This is the ski you want for beer league

 

http://www.atomic.com/en-US/Products/alpine/skis/race/REDSTER_DOUBLEDECK_3.0_XT/AA0025240.aspx?filter=

 

 

  Okay so one exception other than Blizzard.  Wow keep them coming. 

 

Too bad that one sold.  It looks like a good deal and really probably a great ski. 

post #20 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 


Really?  I have not seen any D2 that were not fis but then I am not an Atomicman...  Also as utagonian pointed out they probably are more for masters.

I don't have a MASTERS D2 I have a  188cm 30.5 M GS  and I have a pair of D2 SL  the D2 FIS Race Stock from 2011 , same plate as my 179 D2 18.4M d2 Cheater GS

 

But also have the 2014 D2 Redster Race Stock SL  WITHOUT THE D2 ....IT HAS THE SHOCKILLA PLATE which they only put on the SL


Edited by Atomicman - 3/4/15 at 10:28am
post #21 of 56

  Atomic doesn't even look to me like a world cup plate in the first place so my mistake.


Edited by utahsaint - 3/4/15 at 10:13am
post #22 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

  Atomic doesn't even look to me like a world cup plate in the first place so my mistake.

 

Should work great for you since you don't look like a World Cup Skier !


Edited by Atomicman - 3/4/15 at 12:15pm
post #23 of 56

:duel:

 

 

:snowfight

 

 

:popcorn

post #24 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

Should work great for you since you don't look like a World Cup Skier !

 

The whole point was to help someone find non world cup skis... so here is the tip with Atomics, don't buy them and you won't get a world cup ski on accident.

 

 

(just razzing Atomicman)

 

Atomic does make some great GS skis just have to look at them very closely.

post #25 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPL View Post
 

If you like Volkl's just get their cheater GS ski, just a matter of picking what length you want. A few guys at our area have them and really like them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
 

Hey guys I just decided to start racing GS for the first time. I want to get the best pair for me that I can handle and ski as fast as possible obviously.

 

38 years old. 5.6 feet and 154 lbs.(A bit chubby) Expert level, aggressive skier. Can handle any terrain and am a fast skier. My problem is that I have never raced.  Plan to take some classes, get the feel, and race with guys in "beer league" I think the terrain will be "not the real deal" meaning NOT as steep as a usual GS race piste.

 

I am a long time Volkl fan so I'll ask within their range of skis. I appreciate any other brand/model recommendations as well.

 

Considering my abilities/age/size etc which ski and what size do you think I should get? 

 

The real deal GS Stock World Cup  http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racing-skis/racetiger-speedwall-gs-r.html (Maybe a little shorter than pro racers use ?)

 

The Cheat? one http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racetiger/rt-speedwall-gs-uvo.html

 

OR

 

the  SL stock World Cup  with or without UVO  http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racetiger/racetiger-sl-race-stock-wc.html 

 

You can view all of them here :

 

http://www.volkl.com/skis/alpine/racetiger/overview.html

 

Thanks for your answers.

Go race Nastar and your league and see what the faster guys your size are on, more than likely they are on cheaters.

Some places set courses tight, others set loose.  Some places a 16M or 17M ski works great, others like a 19M to 21M.  18M to 20M is the norm for cheater race skis.

Don't get hung up on brands, find what works.  Also, the tighter radius skis are helpful when you are newer to the game, you can get a little late and recover due to how fast they turn.  As you get faster, they may actually start to hold you back by being too turny unless your inputs are very gentle.

post #26 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
 

Do the cheaters have the same plates as the FIS models?  Most probably do not.  But they do have race plates for the most part.   Correct

 

I doubt any of the skis sold to the public have the same plate (or any thing else) as is being used on the World Cup but I could be wrong.   You will find a lot of different versions of plates on the real World cup skis - like Hirscher using a Marker Piston plate and a lot of much more developed versions

 

The Volkl skis I linked to include the 176/23 and 183/23, I guess you could call them "masters" but I think any non-FIS radius is a "cheater"

 And for the avoidance of doubt, I am not aware of any men using a 187/27m ski on the World cup.  In the 27m era they were all on 190-193ish.  The 187 was primarily a lighter version for younger racers who had to meet USSA regs at that time.  So while a 187/27m may have been a "FIS" ski, it is a long way from being a World Cup ski, despite what the graphics may say....:D

post #27 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

 

 

  Okay so one exception other than Blizzard.  Wow keep them coming. 

 

Too bad that one sold.  It looks like a good deal and really probably a great ski. 

 

Sold?  Which one?  I'm confused.  The link you included is the one from Atomic's site.  I think XT's are at some stores still.

 

http://www.atomic.com/en-US/Products/alpine/skis/race/REDSTER_DOUBLEDECK_3.0_XT/AA0025240.aspx?filter=

post #28 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
 

 

Sold?  Which one?  I'm confused.  The link you included is the one from Atomic's site.  I think XT's are at some stores still.

 

http://www.atomic.com/en-US/Products/alpine/skis/race/REDSTER_DOUBLEDECK_3.0_XT/AA0025240.aspx?filter=

 

Atomicman was pointing over to another epic thread with some used atomic skis.  Must have been edited they were for $250 and already sold.  Looked like a great deal.

post #29 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

  Atomic doesn't even look to me like a world cup plate in the first place so my mistake.


and what pray tell does a World Cup plate look like????  :popcorn

post #30 of 56

Are you only going to be racing gs?  Youd be surprised how well my Volkl Ractiger Speedwall UVO's (Beer Leauge) make longer gs turns.  If you are also racing slalom than I'd recommend the Racetiger SL, and given the choice between UVO and no UVO definitely go with the UVO, it really dampens the ski when you put forward pressure on the ski and boot. 

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