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Very fast turns - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 
 

#1. Narrower more upright stance 

 

#2 Narrower ski

 

It is very different from edge locked carving where you are laying it over You are on and off edges quickly. You must establish a rhythm ASAP.

 

What were your buddies skiing on?

 

 

Did very poorly on my 63mm WC SL's did better on my 107mm Soul 7's.

 

Going to take my semi-retired Magnum 8.0 CA's (80mm) tomorrow and compare them to the Soul's for this type of turn.

 

 

One of the guys was on not very modern skis as he's a bit old school.

The trainer/L3 was on Head Supershapes of some kind.

post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

 

Did very poorly on my 63mm WC SL's did better on my 107mm Soul 7's.

 

Going to take my semi-retired Magnum 8.0 CA's (80mm) tomorrow and compare them to the Soul's for this type of turn.

 

 

One of the guys was on not very modern skis as he's a bit old school.

The trainer/L3 was on Head Supershapes of some kind.

Slaloms should be a breeze!  Supershapes are all reasonably narrow underfoot!

post #33 of 45
Thread Starter 

Could have just been my lack of skill, but they felt like they needed to be on edge and don't respond well to flat pivot movements, like a softer ski might do.

 

It's going to be very interesting to see how the Magnums feel.  Over 125 days on them and they don't have a lot of edge hold, but perhaps will work well for this type of turn.

 

I think a lot of this requires a fairly flat ski, or as jasp said at least ½ of the time on a flat ski.  The SL's don't like to be flat.  Nor do they feel good in the trees.  Need a ski that likes to pivot more for this and that.

post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

Could have just been my lack of skill, but they felt like they needed to be on edge and don't respond well to flat pivot movements, like a softer ski might do.

 

It's going to be very interesting to see how the Magnums feel.  Over 125 days on them and they don't have a lot of edge hold, but perhaps will work well for this type of turn.

 

I think a lot of this requires a fairly flat ski, or as jasp said at least ½ of the time on a flat ski.  The SL's don't like to be flat.  Nor do they feel good in the trees.  Need a ski that likes to pivot more for this and that

Most definitely NOT a flat ski thing. Like JASP said you're on an off the edges in an instant, but the moment you are on them they MUST grip. 

 

This definitely not a pivot thing. You can't get enough rebound out of the flat ski to do turns that quick!  When you get the rhythm down, the skis nearly ski themselves, as each edged moment rebounds your skis to the other side. 

 

One other extremely important aspect of this is LEVEL shoulders!


Edited by Atomicman - 2/27/15 at 9:29pm
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

 

 

Look at Mikaela in the flush...it's all in the ankles.  2:05 in this vid is a great example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI7NegWhwqE

 

And, some people are just capable of a quicker tempo than others.

 

 

Hate to say it but that is exactly what I was doing in my video.  Not much articulation in those quick traverses and I bet I had more like 3+ per second.  It is a lot more narrow of stance and standing up more.  Also my skis are not soft at all 165 World Cup Stiff version of slalom skis.  It could just be your ski radius.

 

What I wonder though is if you are talking more about bump skiing which is all together different since that is what you opened the thread with.  Instead of a nice carve usually what you do is a stiviot turn, absorb the bump, turn on top of the bump, and absorb the bump.   This is a slow video but lots of good advice that I find from him:

 

 

 

Bigger question is what your friends are doing.  Look at the marks in the snow, are they clean?  If so they are carving if not they are stivoting... Regardless of what people are stating either can be fast just watch bump skiers.


Edited by utahsaint - 2/27/15 at 7:23pm
post #36 of 45

When you say articulation........DO YOU MEAN ANGULATION???

 

And then there is Knee...Hip.....and there is inclination....a complelety different animal. But there is no skiing term called ARTICULATION!

 

U-SAINT...YOU ARE MAKING STUFF UP AGAIN!:rolleyes 

 

And I ski the troughs NOT the bumps!

post #37 of 45
Where do I get these terms from? Omg I live in a different universe from time to time. Really is it called angulation (makes sense because it is an angle)? Either way when you get the ski beyond the vortex of your body... yeah too far for fast transitions whatever you call it... I always think of it as articulation. where I came up with that thought I guess it is not here. For fast transitions the inside ski meets the vortex of the center of your body not much more. It just meets the vortex then swings back if you are looking for a clean carve.

Ironic enough I worked with a world cup ex athlete she called it articulation as well...


Either way if you are using the mountains steepness to get the angulation in your skiing you have gone too far for fast transitions. Its about keeping yourself as a pendulum more than angulation. Ironic enough spell check doesn't even like the word... Where am I?
Edited by utahsaint - 2/27/15 at 10:27pm
post #38 of 45
British maybe? They have articulated buses. Two sections that bend. Might be a more common usage there than here.


ar·tic·u·lat·ed\-ˌlā-təd\
adjective
: connected by a joint
of a vehicle : having a front section connected to a large back section by means of a hinge or a joint that allows sharp turns
Full Definition
of a vehicle
: having a hinge or pivot connection especially to allow negotiation of sharp turns
First use: 1899

ar·tic·u·la·tion\(ˌ)är-ˌti-kyə-ˈlā-shən\
noun
1 a : a joint or juncture between bones or cartilages in the skeleton of a vertebrate
b : a movable joint between rigid parts of an animal
2 a : the action or manner of jointing or interrelating
b : the state of being jointed or interrelated
3 a : the act of giving utterance or expression
b : the act or manner of articulating sounds
c : an articulated utterance or sound; specifically : consonant
4 : occlusion 1b
Examples
her boyfriend's articulation of his feelings for her was long overdue
you will have to work on your articulation if you want to be an announcer on TV
post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

British maybe? They have articulated buses. Two sections that bend. Might be a more common usage there than here.


ar·tic·u·lat·ed\-ˌlā-təd\
adjective
: connected by a joint
of a vehicle : having a front section connected to a large back section by means of a hinge or a joint that allows sharp turns
Full Definition
of a vehicle
: having a hinge or pivot connection especially to allow negotiation of sharp turns
First use: 1899

ar·tic·u·la·tion\(ˌ)är-ˌti-kyə-ˈlā-shən\
noun
1 a : a joint or juncture between bones or cartilages in the skeleton of a vertebrate
b : a movable joint between rigid parts of an animal
2 a : the action or manner of jointing or interrelating
b : the state of being jointed or interrelated
3 a : the act of giving utterance or expression
b : the act or manner of articulating sounds
c : an articulated utterance or sound; specifically : consonant
4 : occlusion 1b
Examples
her boyfriend's articulation of his feelings for her was long overdue
you will have to work on your articulation if you want to be an announcer on TV

 

No really I don't get where I get these terms from... Yes I mean two joints one stationary and the other a joint moving independent creating large angles.  If you are looking for fast transitions then obviously you are not creating large angles with your body.

post #40 of 45
We seem to be drifting into definitions again. Terms get in the way when we do that, so I am hoping a return to the topic will steer us back on task.

Edge to edge quickness has been discussed and we seem to agree that near flat edging skills are one key to quicker "mini" turns.

As I alluded to previously other options exist that feature a different skill focus. The near flat edging allows for easy releases where redirecting is an easy way to navigate the bumps. The key is instead of skiing the bottom of the trough, we follow the sides of the trough, much like using the walls of a half pipe. It isn't as fast at slow speeds but ramp it up and it gets pretty fast as well.
post #41 of 45
Thread Starter 

Great day today playing with this.  Here are my results.

 

Morning ski'd the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 CA's with over 125 days on them.  Did very well with fast RR turns and did 100's of quick turns.  What happened was I'd be tailpushing, a habit I'd gotten rid of in my skiing, but had returned as I picked up the pace.  The more I did, the better I got (naturally.)  @epic, definitely no reaching/footsquirt used.  What helped in fact was a backpedalling type of motion to keep driving the tips down.

 

90% of this was on groomers, just to dial the motion in.  Then did some chop and small bumps.

 

Afternoon I returned to my Fischer WC Hole SL's.  They did just fine.  The issue with them is that they are very heavy and thus just not as easy to swing side to side - hence my problem with them Wednesday.  The more I was slicing the less it mattered and they not only were as quick with the turns, but of course when they engaged with the side of a small icy bump, they gripped it much better than the Magnums.

 

Next step is doing this on the Soul 7's.

 

Bottom line is that it's coming and I think is a very important step in my development, because the faster I get the better I'll be in trees and bumps.

post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post

Where do I get these terms from? Omg I live in a different universe from time to time. Really is it called angulation (makes sense because it is an angle)? Either way when you get the ski beyond the vortex of your body... yeah too far for fast transitions whatever you call it... I always think of it as articulation. where I came up with that thought I guess it is not here. For fast transitions the inside ski meets the vortex of the center of your body not much more. It just meets the vortex then swings back if you are looking for a clean carve.

Ironic enough I worked with a world cup ex athlete she called it articulation as well...


Either way if you are using the mountains steepness to get the angulation in your skiing you have gone too far for fast transitions. Its about keeping yourself as a pendulum more than angulation. Ironic enough spell check doesn't even like the word... Where am I?

There you go again............Vortex of your body? :confused WTF r u talking about? :dunno

post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

We seem to be drifting into definitions again. Terms get in the way when we do that, so I am hoping a return to the topic will steer us back on task.

Edge to edge quickness has been discussed and we seem to agree that near flat edging skills are one key to quicker "mini" turns.

As I alluded to previously other options exist that feature a different skill focus. The near flat edging allows for easy releases where redirecting is an easy way to navigate the bumps. The key is instead of skiing the bottom of the trough, we follow the sides of the trough, much like using the walls of a half pipe. It isn't as fast at slow speeds but ramp it up and it gets pretty fast as well.

Boy, you took "the troughs" very literally, I was including the "sides" of the trough.....but not the up and over the bump as someone described in an earlier post.


Edited by Atomicman - 3/2/15 at 6:36am
post #44 of 45
Yup, mostly to shift the line focus though. Like race ruts where the skis go makes a difference. Obviously over the bump is an option, around it is too, but like race ruts a platform has already been cut into the snow. That is really all I was trying to point out. We can ski the inside wall, the bottom, or the outside wall of a race rut / mogul. When using a lot of smear that outside wall allows that better than trying to ski the inside, or bottom of the rut.
post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Yup, mostly to shift the line focus though. Like race ruts where the skis go makes a difference. Obviously over the bump is an option, around it is too, but like race ruts a platform has already been cut into the snow. That is really all I was trying to point out. We can ski the inside wall, the bottom, or the outside wall of a race rut / mogul. When using a lot of smear that outside wall allows that better than trying to ski the inside, or bottom of the rut.

Thumbs Up:D

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