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Is a base grind and stone grind the same thing?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

Are the terms interchangeable? And if not, when would you ask for a base grind vs a stone grind?

 

From what I understand, and this may all be wrong, but a base grind is only when you need to flatten your bases or have major base damage? And a stone grind is only to add structure and doesn't take much material off?

 

If you want to change your base edge bevel and make it smaller, you would need a base grind right? A stone grind wouldn't be used to reset edges?

 

And now if your base and edge bevel was set at the beginning of the season and you're happy with it, you've been manually maintaining your side edges and deburring religiously at home, and it's now the start of next season and you want to get the skis a machine tune to start the season. What would you ask to be done? Just a stone grind and edge sharpening?

post #2 of 15

Here is one shop's description of a full tune:

Crystal Glide Tune $49.00
  1. After a through inspection of the ski we give it a light base grind to clean and flatten the base and to clean edges
  2. Stonegrind with appropriate structure based on temperature and snow conditions
  3. Side edge grinding with a 1, 2, or 3 degree bevel
  4. Bevel the base edge 1/2 or 1 degree, polish the edge with stone and remove burrs from side grinding
  5. Detune and remove burrs on tips and tails
  6. Inspect ski and belt wax either with belt or iron upgrade an additional $10.00
  7. Use protection for tips and tails

But best to ask the shop exactly what they will do. And if you want less specify. Personally I do the whole thing when the bottoms get bad enough that I can't stand to look at them. IME the structure will last as long as the bases are flat, so I don't see much point in a tune unless you have the bases ground flat and the edges reset, in addition to the structure. I'm a recreational skier with a soft snow bias; others, especially those with a race bias, will differ. BTW, my shop charges 30 bucks, but he's one guy who also coaches and travels with a ski team so I get him when I can.

post #3 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post

 

But best to ask the shop exactly what they will do. And if you want less specify. Personally I do the whole thing when the bottoms get bad enough that I can't stand to look at them.

 

^This.

post #4 of 15

Stonegrind and base grind are interchangeable. 

 

 

I have never seen a base grind done without some flavor of structure.  But with that said there are many structure patterns available depending on the machine the shop is using. 

 

And then the question is, do you just want your base and edge ground flat or are the installing base bevel. 

post #5 of 15

I try to avoid the stoned grind by scheduling my work early in the day.

A free base grind should be avoided.

post #6 of 15
I think you need to tell them what you are trying to achieve. Flatness? Fresh or changed structure? New base bevel? Other than that, it's all a grind, which you should be avoiding unless you need to accomplish one of the above. It shortens the life of the ski.
post #7 of 15

Atomicman and others--please correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't a base grind ordinarily done on a belt sander, which will leave a basic structure, and the stone grind is done after the base grind on a stone (duh) which imparts a more sophisticated structure? 

post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

Atomicman and others--please correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't a base grind ordinarily done on a belt sander, which will leave a basic structure, and the stone grind is done after the base grind on a stone (duh) which imparts a more sophisticated structure? 

I don't think so,,, the terms are more general and either can mean the same thing. More depends on what gear the shop has. 

 

But if you went into a shop with only a belt grindewr and said you wanted a stone grind...they would grind your skis!

 

if you want to be LITERAL, yes to have a stone grind you must have a stone....but the belt is ingrained with stone isn't it???

post #9 of 15

Although most people seem to interchange these terms it is a different finish.  A belt grind (which is like a big belt sander)  will flatten your ski bases tip to tail.  You will use a few different belts to get a smooth ski, and the amount you grind off depends on how flat the ski is to start with.  A stone grind is done after a ski has been belt ground.  Structure is added to the stone with a diamond cutter and the structure pattern is decided on depending on different snow conditions.  This structure pattern is then cut into the base of the ski.  Not all places will have a stone to do structure, but almost any good shop will. Not all skis come with a structure either and some companies just do a belt grind.   There is a difference so make sure you know what you are asking for.

post #10 of 15

Grinding a ski flat with a belt is a pain in the ass and is not common practice in my experience. Belts do not leave structure, in fact they actually leave tiny almost microscopic "hairs" on the ski. They act almost like velcro on snow to a much lesser extent than actual velcro; the ski will feel slow and sticky. Those hairs become more prevalent the more you send the ski over the belt. They can be almost totally removed by using a series of course->fine belts but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a shop that swaps belts like that if they are doing any sort of volume in tunes. It is much more practical and efficient to flatten a ski on a stone with a course linear pattern, then a fine linear pattern to smooth out the rough cut of the course pattern, and a couple finishing passes over a cross hatch pattern (or something super fancy that a machine like an RSBI can do) for appropriate structure. 

 

As far as "base grind" and "stone grind" -- They're interchangeable IMO. What you need to specify is if you want your ski ground flat or you just want to freshen up your structure. Yes, technically your base is being "ground" on the belt but for the purpose of cleaning up the base edge more so than removing material from the base itself. 

post #11 of 15

I was told, that it is good to have base grind done at the start of each season, is this correct

post #12 of 15

Back in the late 70s and early 80s most base grinds were done on a giant belt sander..  More expensive stone grind machines took over.  These days most base grinds are stone grinds.

post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneburns View Post

I was told, that it is good to have base grind done at the start of each season, is this correct

Look at the bases. Can you see good structure from end to end? Side to side? Especially along the edges. Now check flatness. Get a true bar or at least a good ruler (not something from the bank or your kid's backpack). Rest a flashlight on the end. Turn off the lights. Run the true bar perpendicular to the ski, sighting down the base and look for light coming under the bar. Although some is okay, it should be very little. If it's railed or base high, it should be taken in. If you take it in, make sure you tell them it's to flatten the base or touch up the structure, as you don't want then over doing it. Otherwise, leave the base alone! Most casual skiers could probably go for years between grinds if the ski is flat!
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneburns View Post

I was told, that it is good to have base grind done at the start of each season, is this correct

Look at the bases. Can you see good structure from end to end? Side to side? Especially along the edges. Now check flatness. Get a true bar or at least a good ruler (not something from the bank or your kid's backpack). Rest a flashlight on the end. Turn off the lights. Run the true bar perpendicular to the ski, sighting down the base and look for light coming under the bar. Although some is okay, it should be very little. If it's railed or base high, it should be taken in. If you take it in, make sure you tell them it's to flatten the base or touch up the structure, as you don't want then over doing it. Otherwise, leave the base alone! Most casual skiers could probably go for years between grinds if the ski is flat!
Exactly. Listen to sibhusky.

What you may have heard is to get an edge sharpening each season; if so, whoever told you that either lives to smear their turns or only skis powder days. In reality, the side edge should be sharpened when it loses its sharpness. That can take days on icy conditions or man-made snow, versus weeks on natural or soft snow, and a carving maniac or racer will sharpen more often than mere mortals like--well, like me.
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post


Exactly. Listen to sibhusky.

What you may have heard is to get an edge sharpening each season; if so, whoever told you that either lives to smear their turns or only skis powder days. In reality, the side edge should be sharpened when it loses its sharpness. That can take days on icy conditions or man-made snow, versus weeks on natural or soft snow, and a carving maniac or racer will sharpen more often than mere mortals like--well, like me.

There is sharpen and then there is sharpen.  On the side edge only, I diamond stone, hone with a hard stone  and remove the hanging burr (base edge)  every time I ski. This sharpens the edge!

 

 

I only Sharpen with a file and then do the above if there is enough edge damage to warrant the use of a file.

 

I only deal with the base edge if (and this would normally require a basegrind/stonegrind)

 

#1. Bevel has to increased to over 1 Degree

#2. Extreme Edge damage that cannot be dealt with from the side edge.

#3. ski base has become extremely concave or convex less than 10mm of flatness in from each edge. or ski is railed.  

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