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Don't Even THINK About It!!

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
post #2 of 16
I can see the benefits for some people. Having MS and aging at the same time makes it incredibly difficult for me to sometimes even "get through the day", and it is frustrating in those MS active times to do things involving physical strength. If I could take a pill and use that for those times, I can't think I would be worse off.

If it helps keep people active, where is the harm in that? Just another perspective. I do pretty well, and would like to keep improving, but if someday that proves too difficult, give me some pills, please. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
WHOAAAAA!!! Perhaps MS is the exception to the rule, but I don't know if you want to be the guinea pig for the trials, considering that just about every drug that's come out in the past 10 years related to fitness or weight loss has had considerably bad side effects.

But you have MS and you ski??? Astonishing and admirable!
post #4 of 16
Ya soon ve vill all be like ahlnold. No more sahnd kicked in face. It good!!

Assuming it doesn't kill us that is.....
post #5 of 16
I did a search, but was unable to find the original research article and, as this report is so vague, it's difficult to assess if targeting the CaMK pathway will prove to be efficacious.

Presumably, these mice show elevated basal metabolism and increased insulin sensitivity and perhaps changes to other indicies of energy homeostasis. That's great. It is important to note, however, that these animals were conceived with and went through embryologic and postnatal develompent with this genetic alteration and, thus, may have undergone compensatory changes to their physiology as a result of this over-expressed gene during development.

Altering this pathway in the adult human may not be so fortunate, however. For example, increased muscle mass will place an additional load on the cardiovascular system. The heart and capillary beds of the average obese, sedentary person may not handle this. Also, although there may be some benefit to the type-2 diabetic, some manifestations of the syndrome will remain unaffected.

This is a typical report of a neat scientific observation (I'm not questioning the science at all, BTW). I've seen it many times before with respect to phenomenon like: learning and memory, obesity, stress, drug addiction... There is one thing in this report that I certainly can agree with, Pharma and biotech will be looking into this pathway very closely.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ April 15, 2002 11:09 AM: Message edited 1 time, by BadRat ]</font>
post #6 of 16

It isn't as bad as all that. I didn't learn to ski till the year I was diagnosed (1992) I thought "Oh, hell, if this thing is gonna stick me in a chair someday, or worse yet, kill me, then I am gonna go do the things I want before I can't do them at all. It really makes you think. Not a day goes by that I don't think about it, but while it has slowed me down considerably, I won't stop!

I fell in love with skiing, and it saddens me sometimes. I know I get sensitive, what a loser I am, huh, but I know how some of the very challenged people must feel. The general talk is that women should be Hot, and if they aren't, then they should be able to fly off cliffs doing the Mosely dinner roll, and then they will be "accepted", more or less.

Well, I will never do a dinner roll, and I ain't HOT, never will be, I am just me, but my love for skiing is just as real as anyone's here, regardless of skill level. I will poop along as well as my skill and body will allow, and if you blow by me and wonder how lame it must be to be me, well, think again, cause until I Drop, I will be out there giving it a go. I will kick it's ass before it kicks mine


Enough soapboxing.

I will gladly take one set of side effects over the normal Crap if it gets me out there one more season.

Now, I must live closer to heaven.....
post #7 of 16
Bonni, I truly look forward to meeting you next month. Be happy!
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Wow, Bonni! You make me realize that with all my petty little concerns, all the things I worry and obsess about, I am just a self absorbed little bitch, with lttle perspective about the rest of the world.

Your story is inspirational, and one that should teach each and every one of us not to take for granted what we have!

Indeed, in your situation, you may be the exception to the rule. If its side effects are not too serious, and it gives you the strength to keep on keeping on, then more power to you.

But to understand my purpose behind my original post, you would have to know the history behind it. For the past year, I have been on more of a mission than SCSA and PMTS to change people's ideas about how they think about working out for skiing. To sum it up, having stronger muscles is not really going to make a MAJOR improvment in most people's skiing. Its how muscles are trained to FUNCTION in an INTEGRATED manner that leads to enhanced skill.

But like I said, in your case, this is a different story.
post #9 of 16

You ARE hot! You certainly inspired me with your story.


You have been heard (at least be me [img]smile.gif[/img]). As you may know, I am a die hard bodybuilder at heart and for years I have ignored integrating muscle function in the way you have often described. But age has forced me to take a long look at my training and listen to advice from others. It worked really well. I still do basic lifts with high intensity, but I also spend a great deal of time on core strength and balance. The stability ball is an integral part of my workout for the past year (I think SCSA also discovered the advantages of this equipment). What I am trying to say is: THANKS, I needed that!
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
You are welcome! To illustrate my point, I have been working out on weight training equipment for over 30 years. My very first attempt at skiing, 13 years ago, was a disaster! When I tried again 3 years ago, after discovering stability ball, it was much easier.

That being said, I have to admit that out of everyone on this forum, I am just about the LEAST intuitive skier, and had the absolute slowest learning curve. Is it a coincidence that I have probably been doing machine weight training longer than anyone else?

I think not!

In any sport or activity, muscles work in an integrated patttern. Muscle isolation is highly counter intuitive to the bodies processes. Doing sets on a leg extension machine will train you to do one thing better: Doing sets on the leg extension machine!

If your ONLY, with big emphasis on the word ONLY method of conditioning is isloation work on machines, you are actually teaching your body to do the opposite of what you need to do in sport.

Of course, basic strength is crucial, so there is nothung intrinsically wrong with equipment weight training. But if you are going to isolate, you need to integrate. And in MOST cases, a pill will not do this for you!
post #11 of 16
TomB- thanks!

LM--I don't do the gym at all anymore, and haven't for 3 years. If I do, that's ALL I can do. I can still ski circles around women less than half my age, though, so that makes me feel good.
I get my exercise doing life things anymore, gardening, mowing, pruning, painting, building things. I think those things help too. I just have a home that needs constant attention, and Baby, if THAT isn't a workout, I'll start gyming again.

I am doing some of those things you suggested-toe and foot things, oooooh, feels good-and tummy scrunching, and of course Kegels. I just want to say thanks for prodding me along--I need you! :
post #12 of 16
Originally posted by Bonni:

I get my exercise doing life things anymore, gardening, mowing, pruning, painting, building things. I think those things help too. I just have a home that needs constant attention, and Baby, if THAT isn't a workout, I'll start gyming again.

I hear that one..
I have a 3 yr old, a baby, large dogs, and all that other stuff. Its like your own home gym.

I am glad you keep going even with MS. My mother could use that pill, the Chemotherapy and Radiation has destroyed all her muscles. She is a silhouette of her former self. The once active woman she was is no more.
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
If you look at the first paragraph of the article, this is not being discussed as a means of treating cancer patients or people with MS. Its being described as a "couch potato's dream"!
Obviously cancer and MS are the exception to the rule for something like this.

My only point in putting this thing on forum, is that its pretty naive to think that just having more muscle will make you a better skier. Once again, if someone has cancer or MS aand there is no muscle there in the first place, that's an entirely different story.

IMHO, if someone is perfectly capable of getting off their butt to exercise, but they are too lazy, the idea of just taking a pill for muscle is an insult to anyone who would workout, if they did not have an illness.!
post #14 of 16
I'm in full agreement with you, LM.

As I posted earlier, this is an example of a scientific discovery that is being sensationalized because of one possible, future use as a therapeutic.

An identical situation occurred following the discovery of the hormone Leptin in 1994. Because of its ability to inhibit feeding, even in fasted animals, and promote leaness in genetic models of rodent obesity, Leptin was described by the media as a breakthrough that would lead to a satiety pill etc... It ain't happened.

Stimulating muscle growth/maintenance in disease states, especially with the rise in AIDS cases worldwide, is far more important and that's where research will be directed, initially. In addition, this could be directed towards treatment of muscle injury or recovery from excercise/training as well. As an excercise purist, I am vehemently opposed to the latter. The pharmaceutical industry, however, is inherently evil and will eventually strive to exploit any and everything in the pursuit of more profit, even targeting couch potatos and active, healthy people.
post #15 of 16
What am I going to do with the 5 gallons of ice cream and the 10 frozen pizzas I just got to prepare for my couch training program?
Bonni, I admire your spunk and attitude. It does seem that people tend to equate skill with dedication and love of the sport. Like you, I have a big grin on my face as soon as I click em on irrespective of the difficulty of the run or the lack of expertise on my part! I hope you have a GREAT ski season next year! skidoc
post #16 of 16
Didn't mean to get off on the tangent.

Sorry, LM.

Skidoc-- yeah, man!!
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