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Are too many ski lodges too small to accommodate weekend and/or holiday crowds? - Page 6

post #151 of 174

As someone skiing since the 80s, finding seating a lodges for lunch on weekends and holidays (if snow is decent) has always been a problem at many Tahoe resorts.  Worst actually on weekends of storm days when by late morning large numbers of inadequately dressed skiers spend the rest of their day crowding every availabe spot.  Especially annoying for we hard core skiers that come in at noon encrusted with snow severely in need of some warmth and comfort only to find no where to sit.  :(

 

This person long ago gave up eating in lodges if at all possible for brown bagging at my vehicle.  But still do end up occasionally eating lunch in lodges when with a group of others.   Recall not a few times ending up sitting on the floor anywhere discrete enough not to be a nuisance and before long a colony of others would do likewise.  And like rollin had wondered why it had to be so?    What could resorts do?  And then I would reflect on how most ski resorts seem to be operated by those most resistant to really thinking out of the box on solutions, rather deferring to safe solutions most other resorts have already established conservatively as ok.  Like creativity has little place.

 

Obviously many of the "squatters" are not eating most of the time beyond having a drink they've been as an excuse sipping for two hours.   No, resorts would do well to find ways to draw squatters who won't be skiing somewhere else with seating.  Somewhere messy sit down dinner plate food was not allowed but rather just snacks and drinks. 

 

So here is my big idea...  How about a room or sectionalized rooms with several tvs getting video feeds from video cameras placed at the most interesting places on a hill maybe with the ability to zoom in out and rotate a bit?  Of course at least some of the more gnarly advanced slopes but also the easier and novice slopes where people could watch for their kids to come down?   Better there could be some video amps with output jacks placed around the room where people could record a feed as much as they wished?  Heck resorts could SELL USB sticks to people that could just plug them in and later pull em out.   And such could be housed in much less expensive buildings than say a cafeteria or restaurant or some fancy pricy lodge.   And one more thing yeah some very aromatic hot popcorn.

 

Dave

post #152 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx2ski 

But someone going to Vail or Beaver Creek has to walk through this mini-village before finding the lodge.

Not if you're savvy.
post #153 of 174
Dave cool idea;
post #154 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_SSS View Post
 

  And one more thing yeah some very aromatic hot popcorn.

 

Dave

With the profit margin for pop-corn the resort could make a large pile of small bills.

 

Maybe a way to fund a 'non-profit' ski team.  Get those non-skiing racer parents involved (and out of the seats).

post #155 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post

Not if you're savvy.

Yeah. Once you learn to ski elsewhere all the purposely induced Vail hassles go away.
post #156 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post


Yeah. Once you learn to ski elsewhere all the purposely induced Vail hassles go away.

 

Ha.  Even so, there are definitely tricks of the trade for those who know.  For example, when I go to Northstar I almost never walk through the village.  The solution is fairly obvious but I don't think a lot of people realize it.

post #157 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

Another thought.....Try to get into the lodge for lunch around 11:30, instead of waiting until noon.  We tend to do that and find that we're back on snow about the time when everyone else goes in, which leaves a better experience in the lift line.  

 

And there you have it. Also, just because some dork parks all his gear in the morning at a table does NOT mean he owns that table for the entire day. If I see that somebody has all their gear stowed at a table but there's nobody there, you better believe I won't be shy about sitting down there. Also, I'm not afraid of doing it European style and simply sharing tables with strangers if there's an empty seat. Just ask them if they mind if you join them. Most of the time, people are super cool about it.

 

Just shrink your personal space a little bit, get cozy with strangers, and you're bound to have a better time at the lodge. That all being said, yeah, just go to lunch earlier than everybody else. Problem solved.

post #158 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

 

Yes, he was... and again, I don't agree that it's the best value.  Although the addition of Kirkwood certainly helps.

 

Agreed.  F'rinstance RMSP is cheaper, has at least as good terrain, more convenient, less crowded, and their perks and discounts are way better.  I can get friends a $69 peak season lift ticket and 10% off lodge food all day long. Epic pass I don't think gives a buddy lift ticket discount at all (Epic holders correct me) and only gives a food discount after 2pm...how sad is that.

post #159 of 174
Yeah in Tahoe it's not that great.

But I can get $150r/t airfare to Denver, and there are enough varied resorts included in epic to make it very reasonable for me to make several trips per season without breaking the bank. Staying away from weekend skiing is the key, I agree.
post #160 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruascott View Post

Yeah in Tahoe it's not that great.

But I can get $150r/t airfare to Denver, and there are enough varied resorts included in epic to make it very reasonable for me to make several trips per season without breaking the bank. Staying away from weekend skiing is the key, I agree.

 

Or just staying away. ;)

 

There is a quality vs. quantity argument in here somewhere, I am sure...

 

My season pass costs pretty close to an Epic Local. Once I add in my Silverton pass, it costs what a full Epic pass costs. I only get to ski, Wolf, Silverton, Monarch, Taos, and A-Basin.  Haven't really felt cheated.

post #161 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruascott View Post

Yeah in Tahoe it's not that great.

 

It's fine in Tahoe, I have both the epic and the Squaw / Alpine pass, and they cost about the same at corresponding tiers.  Northstar is a great option for windy / storm days and Kirkwood is rad despite being in the middle of nowhere.  Heavenly has its moments  But if I had to only choose one, it would be a no-brainer... in part because a Squaw gold pass gives you 50% off at all of the Mountain Collective resorts (plus 4 days free at Sugar Bowl and Sierra at Tahoe).

 

In Colorado, I think it's a tougher decision.  I've skied all of the RMSP and epic resorts... but I might lean towards the former due to less crowding in general.  I really, really hate standing in lines.

 

Anyway... / end tangent.

post #162 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post

 

 Epic pass I don't think gives a buddy lift ticket discount at all (Epic holders correct me) and only gives a food discount after 2pm...how sad is that.

It depends on which pass you get and when during the year you purchase. It is not unlimited. I believe I get 6 Ski-With-a-Friend passes the result in about a 40% discount on a single day pass.

 

The food discount is ridiculous. After 2pm??? Really???!!! And what is it, 15%? 15% off food that is 50% overpriced - NOT a big incentive. At two PM I'm trying to figure out how many more laps I've got in my legs. Thinking about the après beer, hot shower and a tasty dinner.

 

For food VR needs to implement "Frequent Flyer" pricing tiers. The more days you spend on the mountain the lower your food costs. They are not selling food to the 50-100 day skiers that I know. If they create a reasonable price point they will start having a chance to capture some of those food dollars...but I digress.

post #163 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post
 

 

Agreed.  F'rinstance RMSP is cheaper, has at least as good terrain, more convenient, less crowded, and their perks and discounts are way better.  I can get friends a $69 peak season lift ticket and 10% off lodge food all day long. Epic pass I don't think gives a buddy lift ticket discount at all (Epic holders correct me) and only gives a food discount after 2pm...how sad is that.

 

Well, the counter argument is who cares about the perks.  Just look at the pass as access to skiing and forget about the perks.  

Otherwise, a portion of your pass fee is paying for some perks that you're not going to use as they bundle in more crap you don't use anyway, rather then just give you skiing instead.

 

The epic is accessible enough pricewise so is it not really that special when perhaps half the skiers on the mountain has some form of the pass.  Then your "perk" really isn't a perk, but instead the non-passholders are paying an extra fee.

post #164 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post
 

 

And there you have it. Also, just because some dork parks all his gear in the morning at a table does NOT mean he owns that table for the entire day. If I see that somebody has all their gear stowed at a table but there's nobody there, you better believe I won't be shy about sitting down there. Also, I'm not afraid of doing it European style and simply sharing tables with strangers if there's an empty seat. Just ask them if they mind if you join them. Most of the time, people are super cool about it.

 

Just shrink your personal space a little bit, get cozy with strangers, and you're bound to have a better time at the lodge. That all being said, yeah, just go to lunch earlier than everybody else. Problem solved.

Storing stuff under and around tables has (by default) become the norm in some places which I think is ridiculous. But  again is all part of having inadequate areas.  But its also the norm for most people that do it, to usually then understand that doesn't guarantee them that table when they come in for lunch. But this is not always the case. Some people do think that table becomes theirs. What bugs me is when there are available lockers, cubby's shelves, watever and they still opt to leave all at a table anyway.

 

Imo there just shouldn't be anything at a table except only whats belonging to one who is actually using it but may be on the food line or in the bathroom at the moment. One shouldn't have to come in for a break and some food and have to deal with someone else's bags and such just to make yourself somewhat comfortable and then struggle to find a spot under or around to put your own stuff while you guys eat. Then the owners of the bags show up and have to disrupt your whole family and climb over, under, and around so they can retrieve their stuff.  The whole process is just stupid and ridiculous.

 

Even if rules were strictly enforced to make this part of the problem better, they really could only enforce them if they had enough storage space to then offer the people. And I have no issue with them charging a few bucks (3 for small- 5 for large) for a locker or whatever. May be that's one way a small expansion might become a win for both sides. Provide enough lockers and enforce rules to either get a locker or haul your stuff back to the car as "we don't allow storage at, under, or around tables, or anywhere" .  They can bring in a nice buck from locker rental and it helps make things a bit more orderly and human like in the table areas.

post #165 of 174

I have no doubt some people would balk at even $3/day for a locker.  So IMO, having a free bag check (with a tip jar) is probably the best use of space to provide a solution to the problem of loading up tables with bags, IF they police it.  If a bag check is available free for everyone,there should be NO excuse for cluttering up tables.

 

Still does not solve the problem of the non-skiing members of a family camping out at a table all day.  As I said before, I run into that a lot at the local areas, and some people are downright rude if you poach some of their "territory":mad

post #166 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post
 

 

Well, the counter argument is who cares about the perks.  Just look at the pass as access to skiing and forget about the perks.  

Otherwise, a portion of your pass fee is paying for some perks that you're not going to use as they bundle in more crap you don't use anyway, rather then just give you skiing instead.

 

I listed four other items directly related to skiing access before mentioning perks.  And discounted friend/family tickets and food is something many passholders use.


Edited by Abox - 2/20/15 at 3:43pm
post #167 of 174
You could hire a homeless person to get there first thing in the morning and save the table for you. Win-win.
post #168 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJskier164 View Post
 

I have no doubt some people would balk at even $3/day for a locker.  So IMO, having a free bag check (with a tip jar) is probably the best use of space to provide a solution to the problem of loading up tables with bags, IF they police it.  If a bag check is available free for everyone,there should be NO excuse for cluttering up tables.

 

Still does not solve the problem of the non-skiing members of a family camping out at a table all day.  As I said before, I run into that a lot at the local areas, and some people are downright rude if you poach some of their "territory":mad

I here ya but they can balk all they want. Not to sound mean and Its not like I want to see people paying more for something but its either that or leave their stuff in the car so they can decide whats the lessor of two evils for them.  Spend 3 bucks or walk back and forth. Overall it would be for good reason that such rule would exist.

 

The issue of the "table sitting non skier" is a big enough problem especially in inadequate lodges but its not the majority of the problem and certainly not most tables.

 

But I believe rules enforcement can really help to minimize a lot of problems. But the first thing is, rules need to be made and only then of course can you attempt to enforce them.

 

Enforcing a "nothing left at tables" rule is not a hard one imo.

 

Remember, a lot of this thread is (as it was started) about making lodges big enough.  Having adequate storage space to handle the heavy crowd days whether it be lockers. bins, shelving, cubby's whatever requires extra space. And much of the resistance in this thread about adding extra space has been about the fact that space has to be paid for and yet draws no return. Well this is part of why I brought up the rental locker space. At least now there is some income and it also helps (quite a bit imo) to reduce some of the issues that stem from having too small a lodge. And room for lockers does not have to be nearly half as large as it would for tables.

post #169 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post

You could hire a homeless person to get there first thing in the morning and save the table for you. Win-win.

As per our other thread-  Didn't you mean a "ski instructor"

post #170 of 174

Blue Mt. in PA did a big expansion to one of their lodges. In the process they removed about a hundred free storage bins and replaced them with about half as many real lockers with a fee. Not sure what the fee is as I just don't use them. They did leave a few free bins and then people pile their stuff on top of the real lockers.  Not a big deal for me as I only go there on weekdays.

post #171 of 174

Did I miss why you can't take your business elsewhere? If I couldn't find a seat at lunch and lodges were full of crap everywhere and "ghosts" taking up tables, and management didn't care, I'd go elsewhere and send management an email telling them why I won't be back.

 

There was a thread last year about my home mountain (Crystal Mt in WA) and their policy of not allowing brown baggers in the lodges at lunch except in one designated basement room. A lot of people were down on this, but I love it. It takes care of the issues you're talking about. I still have to get into a lodge by 11:30 to get a seat, but that's fine. I stopped going to Stevens Pass, on the other hand, even though it's closer to me, because of the crowds--not only on the slopes, but I stopped being able to get a seat for lunch even if I was in the lodge by 11. Vote with your dollars; let management know why.

post #172 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post
 

Blue Mt. in PA did a big expansion to one of their lodges. In the process they removed about a hundred free storage bins and replaced them with about half as many real lockers with a fee. Not sure what the fee is as I just don't use them. They did leave a few free bins and then people pile their stuff on top of the real lockers.  Not a big deal for me as I only go there on weekdays.

well, to be honest, this thread was started in part due to my last lodge experience which actually was at "Blue" lol on the weekend.

 

Firstly (for the area) Blue imo has a nice mountain and I like the runs and lifts there.

 

Now back to the topic. What they added (as you know) was sort of a temporary but permanent tentlike structure (which is why I brought up cheap expansion ideas in other posts where as it doesnt always have to be anything expensive and/or fancy at all) but expanded the lodge a little deeper into the parking lot. Its basically for ticket sales which were removed from the table area clearing some space for a few more tables and doing away with ticket lines crowding up the area. And as you noted (one double row of lockers).

To be honest (as you did mention they took the bins away) but not many lockers added. Even though more tables now fit, it just ended up with a situation of baggage left all over the place. Although there were less tables before, the baggage problem was not a big issue but now it is. But about half the expanded area is filled with computer kiosks I assume for ticket purposes. So we basically have a half empty (wasted space) extension and a lodge that is not really a lot better and could be said (for the new baggage problem) possibly worse.  But I at least give them good credit for making some good effort and trying. At least they are doing something :) Just a little rethinking how best to use the space and it could really improve things imo. The expanded space itself is not small but the lodge itself was as bad as usual because they aren't imo using the expansion efficiently. But again they are making some effort which is nice to see.

post #173 of 174
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy319 View Post
 

Did I miss why you can't take your business elsewhere? .

Not just for me but will assume others as well.

Many times its about what one considers practical as far as location. And driving just anywhere is not always in the cards. Then there is the skiing mountain itself which holds value in the decision along with location. And as mentioned in other posts (for me and some others familiar with it) I refer to the NYC area and the resorts that are within practical reach for a day trip. That reach is going to be different for everyone (because everyone's lives and ways are different) so some have a couple or so more choices than others. And you also (at least for me as mentioned) have to like the ski mountain. But over all its an area with a huge metropolis and the over crowded issues on Holidays and also on average weekends too is quite common at most the resorts. There is just not much option for getting around it. There is never telling how crowded each of the given resorts will be even you head to another.

post #174 of 174

This weekend, Copper Mt is hosting a special event with hundreds of competitors. 

 

As in past year,s they have taken a part of a paid parking lot and installed a temporary tent structure with portable facilities (unheated?). 

 

It isn't located in the 'normal' base area.  Bit out of the way.

 

Since the tent is on part of the private property in base area, I doubt that USFS approval was needed.  Sure county approval is needed. 

 

Don't know if food is being served/prepared in tent so Food inspections may be needed.  

 

Tent will probably be gone next week.

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