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Aftermarket boot liners + sizing?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hey making this thread here instead of boot guys as I think others may have valuable input. So I already did the whole boot fittng deal and after several stretches and grinds still getting multiple pressure points (instep big toe etc.) I don't blame the fitters because it's difficult with my left foot being about half a size bigger than my right. Got some custom orthotics, better but still painful.

I noticed recently that just wearing the liners without the shell was causing significant discomfort just standing around in them,the neoprene toebox being stretched to its limit on the big toe area. So this leads me to believe some new liners could fix some of my boot woes. Intuition's dream liner looks up my alley but what to size and what thickness at that? I shot them an email but they haven't responded. I'm a 25.5 mondo tecnica demon 110 with a solid 1 cm behind the heel when shell fitting. Should I go with MV or plug? 26 or 25 for size? The objective here is just to stop some of the intense discomfort while retaining some of the performance. (I'm willing to sacrifice a little stiffness.)
Edited by Nikoras - 2/16/15 at 6:22am
post #2 of 24
Is 1 cm behind your heel in the boot for the short foot or long foot?
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Both after the grind. The bootfitters little dowel fit snuggly between my foot and the shell.
post #4 of 24

My bootfitter was able to open up and modify my right liner's toebox for the same reason. Even with a neoprene toebox, my big toe is sensitive after losing my toenail several times in my old boots.


You might want to look into that vs. replacing an almost new liner.


I'm considering Dreamliner too, but I now have three seasons on my liners and the are starting to pack out.

post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
I also had removed a bit of the toe box stitching which again helped just a little, I was hoping that a new liner could also ease up some of the pressure on the instep and met heads of my foot. Also the extra warmth of the foam is really appealing to me.
post #6 of 24
What does your boot fitter say? That is a better source of possible remedies than random interwebz people.
post #7 of 24

If you want to get the absolute best fit, performance and trouble spots, spend the extra bit of money and buy from a ski shop - ideally from the people who have been working on your boots if it is a good, competent shop.  They will know your feet and issues.  It may be a combination of punching out the shell where needed and properly sizing the liner for your feet and the boot, in light of your performance needs.  Judging from your concerns, I think people who have done a lot of these liners are the best way to go.


The proper aftermarket liner with fill up all the empty space, but it may not take care of your pressure points without extra work, so you may be going back to the fitter anyway. 


A good fitter will pad your problem areas to create more room for them, but the shell may also need to give in those areas to allow the expansion.  At least, that has been my experience after putting in an Intuition Pro Wrap Liner into a newish pair of Salomon XMax 100's.  I shell sized down, and I have a shell fit of about 10 mm.  The custom shell was heat molded, expanding the 98 mm. last to my 105 mm. forefoot.  The seller has worked on my various boots for about 7 years and knows my feet and "issues" well.  I thought I wanted an Intuition Pro Tongue, but he told me that the Pro Wrap would fit over my instep because it had more volume above my instep.  I still had some issues with my heel lifting, which he resolved by gluing on a broad foam shim over my instep on my left boot.  At least for my foot, I don't think the Intuition liner had a well defined heel pocket.  I still get a tiny bit of lift there, but not enough to affect performance.  Would a Zip fit have been better?  Don't know.


Depending on the Intuition Liner chosen, the liner may stiffen the boot somewhat.


Other than that little bit of slop in the heels, I am getting no movement anywhere now, and the boots are performing well.  But that also includes canting, alignment, and various punches.  I hope this is useful to you. 

post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
Well I did purchase from a reputable boot fitter last year and they did punch and grind three different times but I think I'm done driving the hour and a half to them (twice to pick the boot back up). Also if the liners alone are causing much of the discomfort as I tested I don't think it makes logical sense to modify the shell anymore than it already is. I am as sure as sure can be that the problem is not any part of the boot being too large as it is two and a half sizes smaller than my shoe size.
post #9 of 24

I've always found the liner outside of the boot will be too tight, no matter how good it feels in the boot.

post #10 of 24

Nikoras - do you have any issues with your feet?  I have gone from high arches to flat feet in the past 3 years.  One of the side effects of flat feet are that, as you move forward to engage the cuff, the foot will actually elongate as you move from an unweighted position to a weighted one, because the arch collapses and pushes the rest of the foot forward.  I became aware of that with a pair of Fischer Vacuum boots that were replaced under warranty with the next size down.  I had the toe bang, and the boot was too short to allow the toe to move as far forward as it needed to.  This caused no lack of pain for me.  Going to a pedorthist bootfittter for my pain revealed the real problem to me.


Stand in your bare feet on the floor with a mirror in front of your feet.  Press down on the ball of your foot and watch your toes.  If flat feet are an issue, you will actually see your toes moving forward


A well posted custom footbed that completely conforms to the shape of the bottom of your foot will feel bedrock solid underneath your feet and minimize that movement. 


I don't know if this is any help to you, but there it is.


Talk to the boot guys.  They are smarter than us.

post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
My feet are quite ordinary except for one being larger than the other. I think my left big toe is sensitive from losing the toenail so many times due to previous boots. I do already have custom orthotics made by the bootfitters
post #12 of 24

Choose the 25 if you need more room, the 26 if you need to reduce some volume, contrary to what seems logical.

post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Is that because the bigger liner takes up more space within the boot giving your foot less space?
post #14 of 24
The general rule of thumb for intuition liners is to buy the liner a size bigger than your shell size to get the proper fit. How much volume is taken up depends on what liner you buy, you don't want to change liner sizes. As long as your boot fits correctly in the calf, instep, and forefoot you shouldn't need to mess with different size liners to make up for toe space.

I wouldn't get the dreamliners, I would get the powerwraps or a higher end tounge liner. The power wraps change the flex of a boot a lot, which I don't like. My dobermann 130s with power wraps were stiffer than my 150 flex dobermann plugs.
Edited by clink83 - 2/16/15 at 11:23am
post #15 of 24

It's not quite as simple as just buying the correct length and type of liner.  Nikoras is considering the Dreamliner, which comes in 3 thickness - low volume, medium volume, and high volume.  I don't know which of those 3 will give him the best fit and performance, but only one of them will..

post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Talked to an intuition rep on the phone she said to size down to the 25 only on the dreamliner model or size up on the powerwrap an go for the low volume due to the shell sizing. If I'm wrong they have a pretty generous exchange policy I guess.
post #17 of 24

Yes, they have a very generous exchange policy.   As long as you don't heat mold them you can send them back for another model / size.


That said, the best approach is to find a place that has several models and sizes in stock and try them on - it really saves a lot of time on everyone's part.  I went to the intuition shop in Vancouver and tried about a half dozen sizes and models and quickly found the right combo for my feet and boots.  This was after buying a pair "over the phone", working with my bootfitter for a year to try and make them work for me, and not having much success.  Bottom line is I bought the wrong model (the luxury liner with a 6mm thick footbed instead of the dream liner with only 3mm underfoot) and starting with the right model cleared things up quickly.  Intuition were great - they swapped the liners out  for free.


They make different models and sizes for a reason, and their phone representatives can only do so much over the phone. I don't know where you are, but if you can find a local dealer or arrange to travel to one it will save much time and effort.

post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hmmm the nearest place that carries intuitions is over 3 hours away. I think I'll pass on the 6 hours of driving
post #19 of 24

If they're located near a desirable ski destination you now have a great excuse for a weekend getaway.


I flew from Detroit to Vancouver to try on my liners.   It was a great excuse for getting in a few days of skiing in BC. (c:

post #20 of 24
If you have a 5mm fit its a pretty easy choice, you're probably going to want the powerwrap plug or one of the race liners. At that point the main choice is do you want a stiffer bootboot(powerwrap), or to stay closer to your original flex.
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Walt View Post

If they're located near a desirable ski destination you now have a great excuse for a weekend getaway.


I flew from Detroit to Vancouver to try on my liners.   It was a great excuse for getting in a few days of skiing in BC. (c:

While I would love to do a weekend at Stowe unfortunately I still have some recovering to do. 



( taken last thurs). I'll post the story along with some other cringe inducing x-rays in another thread if anyone's interested.



If you have a 5mm fit its a pretty easy choice, you're probably going to want the powerwrap plug or one of the race liners. At that point the main choice is do you want a stiffer bootboot(powerwrap), or to stay closer to your original flex.


It's definitely more room than that. Probably more like 3/4ths of an inch remeasuring.

post #22 of 24

Well, I suppose you now have larger issues than your liners to deal with.  Good luck with rehab - you should be back for next season.

post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
I'll be back next month!
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 

Update: Intuition dreamliners MV arived yesterday! I must have gotten lucky because these things actually seem like they may fix some of my issues. 


Initial impressions: Well they certainly don't look very fancy compared to stock liners. Poking all around them vs the stock tecnicas the dreamliners feel much stiffer in comparison, this is a welcome surprise as I've heard people say they're a little soft for their liking (tries them on). Oh sweet jesus the toebox no longer feels like a torture device but is nice and snug thank god. The heel pocket is also a major improvement gripping it in place nice and snuggly, I imagine I can ease up on the instep buckle a little with no fear of heel lift. Met heads still feel a little uncomfortable but significantly better than with the stock tecnicas. No slop in any areas and doesn't feel like there will be any after they pack in a little (they're pretty tight).


Overall, just what I was hoping for so far. Lets just see how they are after heat molding and spending 8 hours of skiing in them.

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