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MA - Nail attempting to leave RR Tracks

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

As it snows less and less out West, I find myself on the comfort of the groomed more and more.  Here's me working on my arcing carve, not pretty, but leaving a few tracks here and there.

 

Snow is quite firm with some sugar on the edges of Mid Warm Springs - SV, Idaho.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the video clip...

 

 

Not really focusing on anything except hooking up the edges and and staying hooked up.

 

Nail

post #2 of 9

Wow man, not much snow out there. Start with more upper-lower body separation and with trying to cut some of that tip-lead.

post #3 of 9

Nice Nail. Cant do proper MA because of the poor video quality but if you are leaving clean trax then much cant be wrong :).

 

T

post #4 of 9

Greetings Nail,

 

It's always brave to post RR tracks for MA, the tracks never lie.  The tracks we can see look clean. Improvements from this level of skill are going to be subtle.

 

I can see your turns start with an up move. In RR tracks this will tend to leave a flat spot in between turns. Above is a blown up shot of your second turn to the left. Do you see the big gap between your feet? That's an excessive amount of tip lead. Can you see how the angle of a line drawn between your feet would compare to a line drawn along your shoulders?

These lines need to be more parallel if your going to eliminate the pop to start your turns.

 

In the 4th still pic above we can see your ski tracks diverge in the fall line and we again see the big tip lead. When you don't have enough counter to start your turns, it is very easy to lean in onto the inside ski. With excess weight on the inside ski it will turn a tighter track than the outside ski and create that divergence, When it does, the inside foot is going to race ahead of the outside foot and create that huge tip lead. This sets up a catch 22 situation for the next turn. The turn finish of one turn sets up a turn initiation that starts with an up move, followed by a lean in, which sets up another turn finish with excess tip lead and not enough counter.

 

As with any catch 22 situation there is no way to break the cycle and there are unlimited ways to break the cycle. One simple approach for breaking the catch 22 is to start your RR turns straight down the fall line. If you make small edge tipping moves form side to side and increase the edge angles only as you build up speed, you will start your first turn with the right amount of counter (none - because you are square to the fall line) and might be able to let your lower body turn more than your upper body starting from that position. When counter is created through this mechanism, as opposed to the inside foot racing ahead, it's much easier to start the new turn with some flexing of the new inside leg. This helps to draw the center of ,mass directly into the new turn vs it having to go up and over the skis. For many skiers, the hard way of breaking the catch 22 is required. There are many different ways to do this including (but not limited to) focusing on flexing the new inside leg, focusing on keeping the shoulder and hips facing more down the hill, focusing on finishing the turns more, focusing on keeping the shoulders parallel to the snow surface, and adding more retraction to the initiation. There are literally more than a hundred different drills that can help. Pick your own poison.

 

An important aspect of RR tracks is that we are using only turn shape to control speed. On a slope like this one would expect to see either higher speeds or more travel uphill at the end of the turn need to fit RR tracks onto this width of trail. It's hard to tell for sure, but it looks like there is a bit too much snow getting kicked up through the turn apex and a bit of static park and ride from the 4:30 - 6:00 part of your right turns (12:00 is uphill, 7:30 - 6:00 for the left turns). One of the cool aspects of RR turns is the burst of acceleration across the slope after coming out of the fall line. We don't see that here. If we can get your turn initiations more balanced against the new outside leg, you should be able to create the burst of acceleration by continuing to lengthen the new outside leg past the fall line until about 4:30 on the clock face. Normally, we'd want to be starting to relax what will become the new inside leg by then, but if the right turn ends with an uphill finish (say 7:30 instead of 6:00), then we still have 1/4 of the clock face (or 3 hours) to relax that inside leg and make round turns. I see your turns finishing at 5:30-5:45 / 6:30 - 6:15 here. If you try finishing your turns with more of an uphill finish, you might get more zip.

 

For what it is worth, if RR tracks can be seen on video, either the snow can't be all bad or the tracks are really good.

post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 

@Epic, weak snow year for sure and coupled with the warmest winter on record....eeek

 

@ tdk6, sorry about the shaky video and I wish my boy would have been closer, oh well, iPhone video is better than none I guess.  I bought a pair of 2005 Head Monsters from the used store a couple weeks ago.  They've got a softer shovel and the first time I used them I was amazed how the softer shovel would hook up and hold in a carve.  The softer shovels are also working great in the moguls, I'm much more relaxed and absolutely ripping an occasional backside CARVED turn (not all the time, but I've felt it fully hooked up a few times already) .  This video was the first run down Mid Warm Springs on these skis, I handed my iPhone to my boy and said let's give it a try.  I've never been able to hold an acr'd carve down this run, pretty steep for groomed, and am actually amazed they'll hold without breaking loose, fun and a little scary to hold that 180 degree turn.

 

@ TheRusty, thanks for the feedback.

 

I do see the tip lead and also the up move at transition you are describing.

 

I'm thinking the exaggerated tip lead is coming from my QCT technique where I drive my inside foot forward into the turn finish.  It sure is a cool feeling loading up that inside ski and having it hold like that on the groomed, this is new to me.

 

I'm quite comfortable loading that inside ski, I'm sure it's ingrained in memory.  I'll see what I can do about minimizing it.  I'll also try to minimize the up move at transition, maybe with the [mod edited -"P"] move.  I do like coming down with my weight into the apex of the turn where I need to generate the most pressure to insure the edges don't break loose though.  I need more time on these sticks to play with this.

 

This hooked up turn is so different than my tight turns in regards to where the most pressure occurs.  The hooked up turns in the video seem to be at the apex ( 3 & 9) where the short turns are at 6 (turn finish). 

 

The bottom of the turns from 3-6 & 9-6, where I have huge tip lead, are where I'm most relaxed and in the "park & ride" stance, pressed forward.  I've got all the speed I can handle on this pitch, so I'm looking to maintain the speed as opposed to accelerating which I may want to do on a flatter pitch.  Around here it seems I'm hooked up, trying to stay on the run and not mow anyone.

 

Since this is the first ski I've had that can stay hooked up at this pitch and speed throughout a turn, I'll be experimenting and trying to see just how much pressure they will hold at.

 

Thanks again for the MA.

 

Nail

post #6 of 9

Difficult to see but I get the impression that you are crushing the cuff on the outside, rather than balancing under the foot. If you do this you may have to put the inside ski forward to compensate for the way-fore on the outside. When you come to the transition you cannot transfer the weight in this position unless you go up, which kind of narrows down your options.

My advice is to find the balance under the sole of your outside foot, and then tip, pull back and lighten the inside foot until you have more or less the same angles on your shins (both fore-aft and lateral) and only natural tip lead. 

post #7 of 9

Nailbender, do this on ICE and you know if its right.

 

Someone else said, "you can't carve, ice just proves it."  That's the proof in the pudding. 

 

Looks like you on the right track (no pun intended).

 

Cheers,

post #8 of 9
Just curious how often in a weak snow year will they make snow on that run after a base is achieved to "buff up" the snow surface and keep it soft?

That is a lot of terrain to blow snow on but sure looks like the equipment is there to do it.
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:

@ jamt wrote:

I get the impression that you are crushing the cuff on the outside, rather than balancing under the foot. If you do this you may have to put the inside ski forward to compensate for the way-fore on the outside.

 

Could be, since staying hooked up through the bottom of the turn is quite new to me on these pitches I'll keep this in mind as I get more miles in, thanks for the input.


 

Quote:

@ oldschoolskier wrote:

Someone else said, "you can't carve, ice just proves it."  That's the proof in the pudding. 

 

I doubt I could hold this on anything much firmer than this hardpack and pitch, I can't believe it will even hold here.


 

Quote:

@ roundturns wrote:

Just curious how often in a weak snow year will they make snow on that run after a base is achieved to "buff up" the snow surface and keep it soft?

 

They do occasionally lay an inch of some man-made on the groomed after there is enough base. Only skiing 1 day /weekend, I'm not sure when they last blew snow.  I think they stopped after Christmas this year, but not sure.  If there is a bare spot or a bad ice section, they will patch that when needed.

 

It would be sweet if they would blow  an inch and till it in on a regular basis, but they don't.  They do groom most of the major runs nightly though.  There are so few people here outside of holidays on the weekdays, it's amazing the place stays open so the groomed holds up quite well, different story on the weekends.  I think SV may have the largest and up to date snow making system in the world. Almost every groomed run has permanent guns installed so people can count on skiing here regardless of mother nature.

 

Nail

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