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MA request

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hello,

 

My first video. I watched it several times. I look a little weird somewhat like a guy trying to walk on sticks. I couldnt figure out what it is. Probably you will :)

 

These are filmed yesterday  (wearing blue jacket) and today (red fleece). Both at the very end of the day. My quads and lower back were very tired both days (especially yesterday). Today the snow was really messed up after so many people skied. It didnt snow here lately so no fresh snow, warm weather, it was few inches of old soft snow on hard packed base. 

 

My friend couldnt keep me in the frame for most of my long turns. He also kept confusing zoom in zoom out buttons. 5 days later I may put another one with long turns. And I will hopefully be improved a bit (will be working on stuff you point out) and have better rested legs.

 

Thank you very much

post #2 of 20

Is there a way for you to stabilize that video?  

post #3 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

Is there a way for you to stabilize that video?  


If the OP already used the youtube built in stabilization, it will be very hard to get it any better.

 

If the OP has not already done so, the OP will need to go to "manage your videos" and there should be some tools there where you can get the Youtube servers to attempt to stabilize the video.

post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

Is there a way for you to stabilize that video?  

Sorry I didnt know we could do that. I fixed it in the editor and re uploaded.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMIWJalkraI

post #5 of 20

I've embedded the stabilized video.  

The wobbly camera gets smoother towards the middle.  

 

High level skiing.  I see strong control over turn shape and a skier who is comfortably

balanced throughout his turns.  You make fast, dynamic short radius turns with energy,

medium radius turns with life in them, and long radius arc-to-arc turns (at the very end).  

You avoid the moving obstacles with grace.  You know what to do with your feet and legs

and how to balance to make this all happen.   You are using your inside leg the way it

should be used.  Others may find things to pick at, but it would be good to hear from

you first to see what you want to work towards.

 

That slope is crowded, but the snow is beautiful.  Where is this?

Do you ever work on your form on hard, icy snow surfaces?  How's your timing and 

balance when conditions are like that?  Got video of bumps?  Off-piste skiing?

 

Where do you want to take your skills next?  

post #6 of 20

Hi Ozan, I tend to shy away from MA on this web site except when there is a specific question but I see you haven't got much feedback so I will make a couple comments.  My first question is what are you looking to do?  Where do you run into problems?  What I like is that you are trying to do most of the work with your feet. Also that your upper body remains quiet with pretty good hand discipline.    In the early section I am seeing you lose the tail of the outside ski at the end of some of your turns. This is telling me that you are pushing on the outside ski, probably trying to find a platform for a weight transfer. The fact that the ski moves away suggests that you are not balanced over the outside ski and have  too much weight on the inside ski.  If you were balanced over the outside ski with no or little weight on the inside ski you would not be able to push that ski away.  It's pretty subtle, but it's there.  I think if I skied with you I would investigate how well you balance on your skis with various and sundry one ski skiing exercises.   To ski on one ski in different ways it requires a well developed sense of counter balance.  Hope this helps.  YM

post #7 of 20

mod note - I edited the the OP to use the new video.

post #8 of 20

Ozan,  As LF has stated, the skis look pretty good but you are negatively impacting your turns with the "countering" movements you are making with your upper body towards the end of the turn.  Especially in you right turns.

 

Countering is a very mis understood  topic in the ski world so rather that bloviate I will send you to a video by JF Beaulieu that provides an excellent progression regarding separation (What creates counter). Please notice that the upper body remains quiet and calm while separation happens at the hips.  

 

JF (in my opinion) has created a "good as you can get" instructional  video with this effort.  Download it to your phone and take it with you to the slopes for reference.   Good luck!

 

post #9 of 20

Along with YM I will say that I would need to know a bit more about where you want to go with your skiing and agree with his positive comments.  One observation I will say is that a high percentage of the turns we see here have a lot of snow spray in the last 1/2 of the turn and hardly any in the top half of the turn.  There is a lot of leg twisting and heel pushing I see, particularly when you start to ski more dynamically on steeper terrain.  Notice the hip swaying from side to side?  That is proactive tail pushing.

 

pivoting the turn entries, and in this case doing it with a lot of tail swing or tail push, or hip swing or whatever....is usually related to not releasing the downhill ski well enough to tip the skis and initiate them that way.

 

I'd say work on your downhill ski release, work to develop turn shaping early to avoid the big edge sets at the end of every turn.  White pass turns would be great for you.  Try tracers first.

 

Opinions differ about whether the turn initiation can be tipped or steered into with rotary, but the hip sway and tail push are destructive.

 

Lots of good things in your skiing too, already pointed out by others.

post #10 of 20

Ozan,

 

The good news is that you are rounding out the tops of your turns. The bad news is that there is no edge engagement above the fall line. In other words, in the top part of the turns you never have the downhill edges engaged in the snow. In your turns you are twisting your feet sideways to turn the skis sideways out of the direction of travel and combining that with a sitting motion in order to get the skis onto the new edges in the turns. This is causing a lot of different symptoms, but the two main things are a lot of skidding and a very quick turn out of the fall line. Many instructors would call these "Z" shaped turns (instead of "C" shaped turns).

 

Have you had your boot alignment checked? Even with the stabilized video I was getting sick trying to watch your feet. From what I could see, your alignment looks a little uneven. If you have not had your alignment checked, this would be the first thing to do before you start trying to change your movements. It looks to me like many of your movements are a result of fighting uneven canting of the feet.

 

Even with proper alignment, changing your movement pattern is probably not going to be easy. It is possible to make great turns by extending both legs at the same time to create an up move to start your turns like you do today, but it is not very easy starting from this technique. You need to develop a turn finish where your legs are turning more than your upper body. This will let you to develop a turn initiation move that replaces the "up and over, twist and sit" technique you currently use with a technique that lets the center of mass (belly button) flow over the skis at the beginning of the turn (i.e. above the fall line) that is caused by tipping both feet and bending the new inside leg, while straightening the old outside leg. I recommend that you start with a drill where you pivot your skis uphill at the end of a turn. This is a movement that is intended to be opposite of the pivot move you now use to get your skis onto their new edges. This will cause your skis to block the travel of your lower body and force your upper body to flow across the skis as a movement to start a new turn. If we do this move in a big turn on a flatter trail at the end of the turn such that the pivot causes the ski tips to be pointed uphill, then the body will be travelling to the side of the trail when it crosses over the skis. This will make it much easier to experience the feeling of engaging the new edges much earlier in the turn (what would be the downhill edges in a normal shaped turn).

 

There are many different approaches that instructors can use to help you move your skiing to the next level of performance. Many instructors would recommend a "2-4-2" drill or a box drill to get you to make the middle of your turns bigger. A 2-4-2 drill emphasizes a delay in the transition while the skis are flat in order to discourage twisting of the feet. Be patient! A box drill is designed to break the "Z" move into two pieces. Even though a "Z" turn is not a 180 degree turn from one traverse to another, for the box drill let's think of it like that. It's like a traverse across the hill to a 90 degree turn straight down the hill followed by another 90 degree turn into another traverse. In this drill, it becomes very easy to change the second turn out of the straight down the hill track from a 90 degree "Z" type shape to a smoother "C" type shape. Once that is done, then you can start working on changing the first 90 degree turn to a "C" type shape. Both drills require the skier to learn patience so you don't try to force the skis to turn so quickly. These drills are usually just a starting point. Most skiers need to do several different drills to get all of the new movements "locked in" or memorized.

 

I love the flexibility you display with your legs. You have the potential to become a very powerful skier. If we can get you to engage your edges in the top half of your turns you are going to be amazed at the results.

post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post
 

Ozan,

 

I recommend that you start with a drill where you pivot your skis uphill at the end of a turn. This is a movement that is intended to be opposite of the pivot move you now use to get your skis onto their new edges.

.

.

 If we can get you to engage your edges in the top half of your turns you are going to be amazed at the results.

 

Thumbs Up

post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post
 

Ozan,

 

The good news is that you are rounding out the tops of your turns. The bad news is that there is no edge engagement above the fall line. In other words, in the top part of the turns you never have the downhill edges engaged in the snow. In your turns you are twisting your feet sideways to turn the skis sideways out of the direction of travel and combining that with a sitting motion in order to get the skis onto the new edges in the turns. This is causing a lot of different symptoms, but the two main things are a lot of skidding and a very quick turn out of the fall line. Many instructors would call these "Z" shaped turns (instead of "C" shaped turns).

 

Have you had your boot alignment checked? Even with the stabilized video I was getting sick trying to watch your feet. From what I could see, your alignment looks a little uneven. If you have not had your alignment checked, this would be the first thing to do before you start trying to change your movements. It looks to me like many of your movements are a result of fighting uneven canting of the feet.

 

Even with proper alignment, changing your movement pattern is probably not going to be easy. It is possible to make great turns by extending both legs at the same time to create an up move to start your turns like you do today, but it is not very easy starting from this technique. You need to develop a turn finish where your legs are turning more than your upper body. This will let you to develop a turn initiation move that replaces the "up and over, twist and sit" technique you currently use with a technique that lets the center of mass (belly button) flow over the skis at the beginning of the turn (i.e. above the fall line) that is caused by tipping both feet and bending the new inside leg, while straightening the old outside leg. I recommend that you start with a drill where you pivot your skis uphill at the end of a turn. This is a movement that is intended to be opposite of the pivot move you now use to get your skis onto their new edges. This will cause your skis to block the travel of your lower body and force your upper body to flow across the skis as a movement to start a new turn. If we do this move in a big turn on a flatter trail at the end of the turn such that the pivot causes the ski tips to be pointed uphill, then the body will be travelling to the side of the trail when it crosses over the skis. This will make it much easier to experience the feeling of engaging the new edges much earlier in the turn (what would be the downhill edges in a normal shaped turn).

 

There are many different approaches that instructors can use to help you move your skiing to the next level of performance. Many instructors would recommend a "2-4-2" drill or a box drill to get you to make the middle of your turns bigger. A 2-4-2 drill emphasizes a delay in the transition while the skis are flat in order to discourage twisting of the feet. Be patient! A box drill is designed to break the "Z" move into two pieces. Even though a "Z" turn is not a 180 degree turn from one traverse to another, for the box drill let's think of it like that. It's like a traverse across the hill to a 90 degree turn straight down the hill followed by another 90 degree turn into another traverse. In this drill, it becomes very easy to change the second turn out of the straight down the hill track from a 90 degree "Z" type shape to a smoother "C" type shape. Once that is done, then you can start working on changing the first 90 degree turn to a "C" type shape. Both drills require the skier to learn patience so you don't try to force the skis to turn so quickly. These drills are usually just a starting point. Most skiers need to do several different drills to get all of the new movements "locked in" or memorized.

 

I love the flexibility you display with your legs. You have the potential to become a very powerful skier. If we can get you to engage your edges in the top half of your turns you are going to be amazed at the results.

 

This in red is what impressed me strongly.  

post #13 of 20

Couple thoughts.  

 

1. White pants are a fashion DON'T  ;)

 

2.  You are balanced and athletic and are clearly enjoying yourself.  :)

 

3.  You get SOME downhill ski edge engagement but not enough.  You need to get more engagement earlier.

 

4.  You appear to be a "heel pusher".  I.E. you push your tails to control speed and turn shape at the end of the turn.  As a result you are not loading up the ski with much energy.  You need to get the ankles flexed and be pressuring the big toe  - laying off the heel.  

 

5.  When you free ski, work on LOADING the ski.  Make it bend pressuring the shovel not the tail. When you release it, the energy will "pop" you around the turn.  

 

So -  not hard to work on.  Couple easy drills.

 

1.  The up the hill drill.  Get some speed and carve your turn until you start heading back UP the hill.  Repeat both ways.  FINISH the turn,

2.  Unbuckle or VERY loosely buckle the boots so you can FLEX your ankle.    

3.  As per the video below work, on picking UP the UPHILL ski so are getting a "pure" carve on the downhill ski.  

post #14 of 20
greetings from sunny Puerto Rico where I have extremely limited bandwidth.To keep this short the primary issue that I am seeing is that a lot of the time you are flexing when you should be extending and extending when you should be flexing. Additionally I think it would be helpful to approach pressure transfer as a gradual and continuous transition from inside ski to outside ski. It appears to me but there are remnants of an old up unweighted technique.

because of all of these things mentioned above the approach limits the angles that you are able to make, and demands that your center ofmass has to travel in a way that compensates.consequently you are not able to achieve higher edge angles and a solid platform to balance against in a dynamic arc.

it is not so difficult to rework the movement patternsbut your approach will require some modification if you wish to improve significantly.I will try to comment further when I can get to a proper computer and keyboard.
post #15 of 20

Are you carrying avalanche equipment and an airbag? What's with the big backpack on piste?

post #16 of 20

I originally thought the OP did some arc-to-arc turns at the very end of the video.  But upon

closer look I now see the smear in the tracks.  However, look at that new inside ankle.

Nicely tipping.   

 

It's still tipping assertively.  Pull it back and let it do its thing, without adding any leg or

foot turning.  

 

The turn will happen slower.  This assertive pivoting is what I missed in my original post;

I was so impressed with the inside knee that I totally overlooked it.

With that assertive pivot gone, you'll spend more time with all ten toes pointing down the

fall line.  And you'll lose most or all of the smear in your tracks.  On hard snow you'll have

more grip without that pivot.  Keep holding that inside foot back to give it power in shaping

the turn.  

post #17 of 20
Hey Ozan,

First off, I want to say Wow! Of course online MA from people you know can get really misleading really fast, but we all can agree a lot of really nice things are going on here. I think you really display a lot of athleticism in this video.

People above are mentioning a heel push move, suggesting the pivot point on your skis is farther ahead meaning your skis are bending behind the middle. However, there is clear flexion in the ankles and (to me) not excessive knee flexion for the hill your on.

Lets look at that giant backpack you're wearing. Keep in mind that a backpack adds another element to our skiing where the body isn't the only thing weighing down the skis. And a backpack that size is REALLY going to affect where the skis bend from, and depending on what's in there, you may look uncomfortably forward to try to get the skis to bend from the middle.

I would tend to agree with those above. Due to the increased weight behind the middle of the ski, I see the back of the ski sliding out. However, I don't believe lack of early edge engagement is a root cause, as much as a result of the body's large recovery move laterally over the skis during the transition after the initial heel push. There just isn't the right setup at the top of the turn to work on that yet. (In my anonymous internet opinion) XD

Great skiing!
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

I originally thought the OP did some arc-to-arc turns at the very end of the video.  But upon

closer look I now see the smear in the tracks.  However, look at that new inside ankle.

Nicely tipping.   

 

 

 

 

Yea I saw that frame too and like Rusty I was kind of getting a little fogged in the head about it, something doesn't look right.  This frame looks like the ankle is really tipped over, but the knee is not moved inside like would typically be the cause for tipping the inside foot to the inside.  Its almost like his boot cuff appears to have flexed to the side, which its not supposed to do.  So this frame gives me pause for confusion on the matter to be honest.  I also tend to agree with Rusty that there could possible by a boot alignment issue worth looking into.  Camara could be playing tricks on us too.  Overall, both legs are rather long and straight here, which is just not indicative of much inside foot tipping and early engagement.  The hip sway and tail swing that comes later is how he develops edge angles.  

post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 

Wow guys many thanks for many replies!

 

I think how I ski now is greatly affected by how I learned it. So first I will tell you about my skiing history to make few things clearer.

 

I started skiing when I was 9 and took my only lesson for the next 20+ years of skiing. I learned everything by myself (paralel turns and stuff), totally by trial and error. No video, no instruction, no advice no internet. I skied 5-6 days a year on average. First 10+ years my skiing improved well, (along with many bad habits) I could ski any pitch at good speed. Even moguls. 

 

In 2011 (after another 10+ years) I noticed that my skiing showed no improvement since 2000. And It wasnt where I wanted it to be. In 2012 I got interested in the technicals. I mean until then I was turning but I had no idea how! It was purely by instincts. I did not even know that I had to to turn my hips and knees into the turn. I was using carving skis for the past 10 years but had no idea what carving was. Actually I was shocked when I saw a youtube video explaining the carving turns that year. I had no idea skis could do that :). So I took a lesson in 2012-13 season, my instructor said before carving I had many fundamental issues to fix first. So we worked on those, overcountering was one of the issues (unfortunately its still there). He also recomended this forum to me.

 

Next year (last year) I started to carve. Watching 100s of videos, instructional DVDs and reading a ton of stuff trying to learn more. This year I also wanted to use my video. Also now I have more time for skiing. Last year 17 days, and this year 23 and still counting :).

 

So about this video:

 

After filming the video and before the feedbacks I noticed 3 mistakes.

 

1- The skidding in short turns (especially right turn). So I looked down on my foot while skiing. When slope got steeper my left heel was involuntarily opening out for speed control. Whatever I did to stop that it didnt work. Edging more or weighing it more didnt work. Then I noticed that my pressure point on that foot was near the heel of my foot.  İnstead of the balls of my feet. So the heel was just sliding down because the weight was on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pat View Post
 

 

4.  You appear to be a "heel pusher".  I.E. you push your tails to control speed and turn shape at the end of the turn.  As a result you are not loading up the ski with much energy.  You need to get the ankles flexed and be pressuring the big toe  - laying off the heel.  

Spot on. Made a quick adjustment and pressed the tips of my foot. Results were very good. Skidding diminised a lot, also the front part of the skis engaged the snow better and turn shape improved in the beginning of the turn. Very fast results!

 

2- This one is interesting. Two days later, at the bottom of the slope where it was almost flat I was doing RR turns with moderate speed. And out of nowhere this instructor came and passed me fast. Started to put up a show right infront of me. He did RR turns with much sharper arcs. And after 5-6 quick ones, he popped right in the air (with the virtual bump), landed on his LTE and skied away. How the hell did he do that? We had the same speed, same slope, same body position, same rate of turns, yet he was skiing very very differently. After few minutes of thinking it occured to me. It was the knee inclination. His knees were really pushing left and right as mine were hardly moving. So at the beginning of the post, my analogy of "man walking on sticks" had to be that. The knees! (you can see it in the video too, I am actually carrying my whole body left and right, which is actually harder to do than quickly moving the knees)

 

So I went up the slope and tried pushing the knees down. Again, very fast results!! Much sharper turns, better turn shape. Even experienced the "pop" few times (for the first time ever). İn short turns now I have to pull the knees up (actually it happens naturally) to avoid the "pop".

 

3- The overrotation (especially on the right long turns). This one is hard to fix. I will try JFs drill for that. I also looked up few more drills. 

 

I am back home now but will go to skiing at our local resort. Iwill be working on these 3 until the end of this season. (My goal is 30 days do I have 7 more :)) 

 

By the way, LF it was Bansko, Bulgaria. The slopes were a bit crowded since they had closed a major slope for preperation for the ladies Super-G on 27 Feb. And it was a weekend day also some British holiday I think.

post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman View Post
 

Hi Ozan, I tend to shy away from MA on this web site except when there is a specific question but I see you haven't got much feedback so I will make a couple comments.  My first question is what are you looking to do?  Where do you run into problems?  What I like is that you are trying to do most of the work with your feet. Also that your upper body remains quiet with pretty good hand discipline.    In the early section I am seeing you lose the tail of the outside ski at the end of some of your turns. This is telling me that you are pushing on the outside ski, probably trying to find a platform for a weight transfer. The fact that the ski moves away suggests that you are not balanced over the outside ski and have  too much weight on the inside ski.  If you were balanced over the outside ski with no or little weight on the inside ski you would not be able to push that ski away.  It's pretty subtle, but it's there.  I think if I skied with you I would investigate how well you balance on your skis with various and sundry one ski skiing exercises.   To ski on one ski in different ways it requires a well developed sense of counter balance.  Hope this helps.  YM

 

yogaman is The Man !!!  :beercheer:

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