- 469 Posts. Joined 4/2005
- Location: Raleigh, NC
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Intuition liner issue
- 3,852 Posts. Joined 3/2006
- Location: Bay Area and Truckee
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I believe if you remold them and really crank down the buckles in that area, it will compress the liner more. If the buckles weren't really tight the first time around, that could cause your issue. In addition, each time you reheat those they seem to get just a little more compressed anyway.
Did you buckle the boots when the liners were hot? If you don't do it the tops won't be compressed properly before the foam sets. There is also such thing as "too much liner", so I wonder if your shell has very low volume. I don't think trimming foam is a great idea, I think power wrap liner is designed to overlap.
This. I put a pair of standard PWs in a pair of boots that had a generous comfort fit and ended up with an excellent performance fit. You might need the plug wraps. But be sure you cranked the buckles when you mold the liners, and definitely use the toe cups and an ultra light sock. The toes of your boots should be up on a 2x4 to make sure your heels are back in the heel pockets. Mine were shop-molded and my feet were VERY uncomfortable waiting for the liners to set. Sounds like you've already trimmed the liners--too bad. If you're having trouble with them might be worth the $50 to take them to a shop.
I suspect either something was off in the OP's heat moulding process, or the liner has been reversed.
Were the calf and ankle buckles buckled during moulding?
Was someone pulling material up and out of the shell during moulding?
Has the overlap been reversed somehow? (the mnemonic for these is Inside In, meaning the medial side goes inside the lateral side)
BTW: when I did mine, I had not gotten them directly from Intuition...so I had to do some research on how to heat them up and mold them. What I did was pre-heat my oven to 250,then turn off the heat and wait 10 minutes. Put the liners in on a cookie sheet. When they were up to temp, the liners were like jello. Onto the foot, into the (pre-heated) shells, buckle up and stand with the front of the boot on a block of wood until it cooled. I had to redo the first one, found I needed more toe room, second one was perfect first shot. I've had them about 6 years, they were the best money I have spent on skiing.
BTW: mine are standard wrap type. I also recently purchased a pair of used boots with the tongue-style liner, and they take up a LOT more room...enough that they probably won't work for my feet.
I rented 'sport' boots yesterday and skied in wonderful comfort and had not one moment of concern about loss of performance.
If this liner thing doesn't pan out I'm happy to move forward and grab something I can wear all day without noticing and enjoy skiing.
I used an overlap style which replaced a tongue style. And after reading the comments re: heat molding, tightening the latches and all - this is not the issue, rather too much loss of volume. I did assume the overlap liner was suitable to replace the tongue style. Perhaps this was an incorrect assumption?
You're kinda railroading the debate here into a foregone conclusion.
How can I believe your categorical statement of "this is not the issue" if you haven't even answered the questions on how tight the buckles were during moulding or whether you had someone pulling material upwards out of the shell during moulding (which is a procedure specifically intended to address the sort of initial comfort issue you seem to be having)?
*shrug* I've been skiing non-plug Powerwrap overlap liners in 10-11-12mm fit shells since the mid-00s -with calves that have never been smaller than 17 inches at the top of the boot. Zero issues other than appropriate changes to footbeds, and incredible ease of entry and exit.
Therefore I cannot confirm that your assumption of suitability was incorrect. Maybe someone else can.
And what is a sport boot?
Edited by mtcyclist - 2/11/15 at 5:55am
- 807 Posts. Joined 2/2011
- Location: San Diego
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1 You screwed up the molding process.
2 You didn't properly adjust the clips on the cuff.
3 The boot and or liner is the wrong size.
4 The boot is not right for you.
1 Remold. Preferably at a shop.
2 Adjust the cuff sizing. You might have to reposition a clip. (Perhaps by drilling a new hole and reriveting a clip placement if there really isn't adjustment. I mention this because I redrill to remount the clips on every waterski boot I adapt from a skate. And I've done it a couple times to a snow ski boot.) Maybe just a longer bale for the clip is all you need. A bootfitter might be very helpful - especially if they know the tricky adjustment techniques.
3 Get the proper size. Bootfitter? The name says a lot.
4 Get a boot you like. Most shops have a good selection.
I do understand and respect a DIY attitude. But you can learn a lot from watching the pros. Especially when you can't make it work.
Or if you are giving up on the boot, go after it with a heat gun, a grinder and a drill. Have some fun trying unusual solutions to make it work for you.
Or send it to me and I'll play around with it. Maybe I could make an Apex boot like thing???
I don't think it was described well, but I can barely get the latch to even hook into the catch on the ankle and calf. And so to do this ... it is all I can do to close the buckle. To even close the buckle is to 'really crank down on them'. I followed the process for heating g rice in a sock, allowing the rice to sit in the covered liner in the boot for 7-10 mins wherein it is very hot and pliable. Yes ... I cranked the hell out of the latches, enough to close circulation. So any help is appreciated.
What boots are these? Many boots have multiple positions where the hook portion of the buckle can be attached. You may be able to move it out to allow the loop to reach easier. Or, maybe not.
If you start with the power strap first, then do the ankle and calf, then do the power strap again, you can make the work of latching a bit easier. It is possible that you are already doing this. Point your toes into the floor and it will also go easier.
In about 10 days of skiing the liner will settle into the boot even better and it will be far easier.
If you don't think you can get 10 days skiing in as they are, getting a pro remould will help. It doesn't sound like you are going to absolutely have to move the bails on the shell, but that is something they can do. They will also be able to pull liner material UP out of the shell while it's hot. It is not out of the ordinary to see 2inches+ of liner peeking out above the shell with these.
Trimming the liner is not something I would do - anything you can do by trimming the liner you can do by moulding and pulling; moulding is somewhat reversible.
I tried the bag(sock) of rice the first time I tried molding liners at home and found that it it doesn't work very well for the upper part. Taking them to a shop that uses the hot air blowers is a lot more effective at heating the upper part.
I would still like to see a photo of the boot cuff.
Edited by mtcyclist - 2/12/15 at 6:36pm