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The Physics of Binding Position and Mounting Plates/ Kastle MX 83

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

I had my 163 cm MX 83s mounted .75 cm forward after reading some posts on this site.  The skis felt really short so I moved the bindings .75 cm back.  It was quite easy since they're on a short plate or track.  It helped but they still feel short so I just moved them another .3 cm backward.  The bindings are now close to the back of the plate. I.e. the bindings may be centered properly on the ski but the plates are forward.  And the bindings are not centered on the plates.

 

Is this OK/safe?  Did I really do anything?  In other words do the forces get transmitted to the ski based on plate position or binding position or some combination of these factors?

 

As an aside I find this a little annoying; it's a great ski but those 10 cm intervals are killing me.  At 5'6" and 140 lbs a 166-168 would be ideal in this ski. 173 just seemed like too much too ski.

 

Willing to get those plates moved back if needed.

post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post
 

I had my 163 cm MX 83s mounted .75 cm forward after reading some posts on this site.  The skis felt really short so I moved the bindings .75 cm back.  It was quite easy since they're on a short plate or track.  It helped but they still feel short so I just moved them another .3 cm backward.  The bindings are now close to the back of the plate. I.e. the bindings may be centered properly on the ski but the plates are forward.  And the bindings are not centered on the plates.

 

Is this OK/safe?  Did I really do anything?  In other words do the forces get transmitted to the ski based on plate position or binding position or some combination of these factors?

 

As an aside I find this a little annoying; it's a great ski but those 10 cm intervals are killing me.  At 5'6" and 140 lbs a 166-168 would be ideal in this ski. 173 just seemed like too much too ski.

 

Willing to get those plates moved back if needed.

 

Good question!   Unfortunately, I don't have an answer.  I was skiing my MX83's 173cm at A-Basin yesterday in a foot of moderate density crud, bumps, new snow, absolutely ripping, at around 6-7mm behind center.  It really gave the ski a bit of extra tip I needed to compensate for the short 173cm length (I am 5 foot 9).  I was easily hanging with guys on big mountain 190cm skis in the bowls, and leaving them for dead in the bumps :D

post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 

Interesting you say that.  My MX83s killed it in soft bumps a couple days ago but at high speed in mixed snow (semi-groomed with some shallow powder patches) I just had this weird feeling I was going to trip over the front of the skis.  Felt like they need a little more tip.

post #4 of 10
Can you move the plates to allow you to put the bindings on the plate centered? I would think having the bindings back would mess up the plates flex, depending on how flexible it is.
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clink83 View Post

Can you move the plates to allow you to put the bindings on the plate centered? I would think having the bindings back would mess up the plates flex, depending on how flexible it is.

That's exactly my concern, but they feel OK.  Today they seemed even better another 3 mm back.  Will look into moving the plates back.

post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post
 

That's exactly my concern, but they feel OK.  Today they seemed even better another 3 mm back.  Will look into moving the plates back.


If it's not broke, don't fix it.

post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post
 

I had my 163 cm MX 83s mounted .75 cm forward after reading some posts on this site.  The skis felt really short ...

 

... As an aside I find this a little annoying; it's a great ski but those 10 cm intervals are killing me.  At 5'6" and 140 lbs a 166-168 would be ideal in this ski. 173 just seemed like too much too ski.

 

Had the same feeling when I demo'd. Ran out of time before I could get on the 173. IMO 163 is short for people our height in mixed 3D conditions where stability is possibly the most important thing. On groomers, all good, sure. Off piste, we really need something in the 170- 175 range, but that we can bend and that won't launch us over the next three moguls if we get a little back on the tail here and there.

 

In any case even on groomers that particular ski just felt to me like a design that wanted to be skied a little bit longer. If I'm going to ski a 163 I want to be on a slalomy ski like a Rally or something.

post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post
 

I had my 163 cm MX 83s mounted .75 cm forward after reading some posts on this site.  The skis felt really short so I moved the bindings .75 cm back.  It was quite easy since they're on a short plate or track.  It helped but they still feel short so I just moved them another .3 cm backward.  The bindings are now close to the back of the plate. I.e. the bindings may be centered properly on the ski but the plates are forward.  And the bindings are not centered on the plates.

 

Is this OK/safe?  Did I really do anything?  In other words do the forces get transmitted to the ski based on plate position or binding position or some combination of these factors?

 

As an aside I find this a little annoying; it's a great ski but those 10 cm intervals are killing me.  At 5'6" and 140 lbs a 166-168 would be ideal in this ski. 173 just seemed like too much too ski.

 

Willing to get those plates moved back if needed.


When you say tehy feel short, I take that to mean thatyou feel more tail than tip. You might instead try adjusting your binding delta. If you put a shim between the toepiece and the plate you will feel more tip. Might want to try that.

post #9 of 10


You moved the binding BACK on the mx 83? I tried that and I REALLY had to lean forward to get the tips to engage. I am 5'10, 190 and I ski the 173.The tips were in the air and the ski was all over the place. So I did the opposite. I moved the binding ALL the way forward. My boots are technicas 120 flex with a 325 last. In this config, The center of mass of the ski with boot in place is 3 cm behind the center of the ski. This is comparable to the 3-4 cm distance I measured on a bunch of demo skis (nordicas soul rider, k2 rictor 82, fischer motive 86) The ski performs like a race car now the way it should. Tips hook up quickly, stable at speed, agile. I spoke to a few people and they all said Kastle are known for putting the bindings further back than 'normal'. I guess those Austrians REALLY like to lean forward A LOT. But this is on New England snow-hardpack by Western standards. Maybe you need the tips in the air out west to deal with what we call 'powder'?

post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwana View Post
 


You moved the binding BACK on the mx 83? I tried that and I REALLY had to lean forward to get the tips to engage. I am 5'10, 190 and I ski the 173.The tips were in the air and the ski was all over the place. So I did the opposite. I moved the binding ALL the way forward. My boots are technicas 120 flex with a 325 last. In this config, The center of mass of the ski with boot in place is 3 cm behind the center of the ski. This is comparable to the 3-4 cm distance I measured on a bunch of demo skis (nordicas soul rider, k2 rictor 82, fischer motive 86) The ski performs like a race car now the way it should. Tips hook up quickly, stable at speed, agile. I spoke to a few people and they all said Kastle are known for putting the bindings further back than 'normal'. I guess those Austrians REALLY like to lean forward A LOT. But this is on New England snow-hardpack by Western standards. Maybe you need the tips in the air out west to deal with what we call 'powder'?


Kastle and 'laid back' skiing is an oxymoron...   My experience (with their front side carvers) is you are either leaning forward and charging or you are hanging on for dear life...  The harder and faster you ski them the more they like it and the smoother they get...  They like it when you are in charge and they do what their told, but they are also happy to take charge if you decide to lay back on them...  

... either you are in charge -- or they are:  Your choice!

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