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Help with my MX88s

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

Hi All! 

 

First, about me.

 

  • 42 year old athletic male, 6 feet tall, 200 pounds
  • ex-racer, current lvl 100 coach
  • east coast (nh, vt, me)
  • Other skis:  Volkl SL WC 165 (primary ski), Rossignol GS WC 182

 

I have been looking for a 3rd ski to use as a one-ski when not coaching (I spend a lot of time on snow coaching and I use my SL skis for that).  I am looking for a non-race ski to use when not coaching.  This would be used for all types of east coast skiing from fast hard pack, ice, crud, to trees and bumps (roughly in that order).  I like to ski fast and sometimes very fast (what does "very" really mean?)  What I am looking for is a ski that can handle firm/icy at very high speeds (like my race stuff, albeit not expecting identical performance in these conditions) but that doesn't bog down in the crud/woods.  I can dream,can't I? 

 

Last year I picked up a pair of Volkl RTM 84s for a steal based on a recommendation of a friend.  These held up on ice/firm and were ridiculously easy to turn (something I actually didn't care for.)  They did well in the crud etc, but the dealbreaker (beyond the way they turned) with them was the chatter at high speed.  Awful imo. 

 

This offseason, I picked up a pair of Kastle MX88s, 178cm, used, but in pretty good shape--they seemed like a good potential match (on paper) of what I am looking for in a ski.  I have skied them about 8 times and I honestly cannot figure these skis out.  I had my local shop, one that I know and trust, prep them for me but they still ski like crap for me.  The basic issue I am having is related turn initiation.  I have been skiing a while and know how to start a turn, even when doing so on a "tough to turn" ski.  I have to force this ski into a turn so forcefully that the rest of my turn ends up sucking by that point.  Also, once the ski bites and turns, it feels like it is locking onto the edge and running straight if that can possibly make any sense. To make sure it isn't me (something I considered of course) I spent this past Sunday switching from my SL skis to my GS skis, to a bunch of demo skis, mixing my MX88s in.  The MX88s were the only skis I could not get to work (and they were not even close).  The other skis I tried spanned a wide range in the blizzard, volkl, head, and rossi lineups.  My very favorite was the Blizzard Bonafide--awesome ski, shocking at how well they skied on very hard pack considering their width.  

 

Anyway, I am trying to figure out the following:

 

  1. Is something wrong with me?  (haha)
  2. Do I have a "bad" pair of MX88s?
  3. Is something wrong with the setup of my pair (binding location? no idea?) [I had the same shop look at them and they thought the bindings etc were proper]
  4. Just the wrong ski for me?   If so, I wonder why?  As I said, the MX88 seems like the perfect ski for me on paper.  Many of the skis they are compared to ski fine for me.

 

Thanks in advance.  I am considering selling these skis--probably very soon.  I just wanted to ping the folks here in case their was something I might be overlooking.  I have them with me at work right now as I am bringing them to ski practice tonight just in case there is something left that I can try with them.  Sigh...

 

MARider

post #2 of 28

quick questions: 

  • are you SURE you have the correct (appropriate) bevels?  Description sounds like a ski with 0/0 base/edge bevel.
  • some folks like these skis (MX series) mounted +1 from the line.  Do you have the opportunity to adjust your mount point? Many of these came with adjustable Kastle bindings that permit a range of mount points.

 

While some folks prefer different skis, it's hard to imagine anyone hating the MX series so much they'd sell them outright.

post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post
 

quick questions: 

  • are you SURE you have the correct (appropriate) bevels?  Description sounds like a ski with 0/0 base/edge bevel.
  • some folks like these skis (MX series) mounted +1 from the line.  Do you have the opportunity to adjust your mount point? Many of these came with adjustable Kastle bindings that permit a range of mount points.

 

I am "pretty sure" the bevels are correct--again, based on the shop.  I will double check.  Should be 1/3 right?  

 

I have the adjustable bindings and will try the +1 from the line tonight.  

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

MARider

post #4 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARider View Post
 

I am "pretty sure" the bevels are correct--again, based on the shop.  I will double check.  Should be 1/3 right?  

According to this resource, Kastle is 1/3 on the RX series, and 1/2 for all other models. 

post #5 of 28

Pretty sure your skis are messed up. I have had very similar experiences with bad tunes and or skis. My advice is first make sure the skis are intact, meaning flex them and look for any delam or other construction issues. As you probably know, they will jump out at you if you look. Next make sure your bindings are screwed down securely and nothing is cracked. Push on them and maybe put your boot in them. I had a cracked plastic heel piece that took me a few days to find, but it didn't feel right the whole time.

 

If the skis and binding are good, (which they probably are) then 90 % chance your base bevel / bottom flatness is not good, or you have a severe hanging burr. My skis had an inconsistent base bevel that felt like what you describe. It can be measured by hand with a true bar and feeler gauges (how I do mine) and a magnifying glass or goggles.  I had two shops tell me they ground the bottom and the skis were good. Sadly, most shops don't really know what they are doing. I can suggest two shops that I guarantee know what they are doing, Edgewise (in VT I think) and Artech in NH.  Talk to some ski racers and ask who does their skis, use that shop for a bottom grind and base bevel set. I would recommend a .75-1.0 base and 3-4 edge.

 

A hanging burr, in case you are not familiar, means the edges have a small metal lip left over from sharpening. Using a diamond stone or ceramic stone held flat against the edge and running up and down the length of the ski will knock it off. You can see it under a magnifying glass and kind of feel it with your fingers.

 

I use SkiMD in Framingham, MA. I will guarantee if he does your skis, they will be perfect. If you don't like them after his tune, its you, not the ski. PM me if you want more info.

 

Scott B. 

post #6 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
 

According to this resource, Kastle is 1/3 on the RX series, and 1/2 for all other models. 

Thanks!

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bttocs View Post
 

Pretty sure your skis are messed up. I have had very similar experiences with bad tunes and or skis. My advice is first make sure the skis are intact, meaning flex them and look for any delam or other construction issues. Thanks--I will check this tonight. As you probably know, they will jump out at you if you look. Next make sure your bindings are screwed down securely and nothing is cracked. I have noticed more rattle than I am accustomed to when clicking into them.  I will inspect the bidings closely.  Push on them and maybe put your boot in them. I had a cracked plastic heel piece that took me a few days to find, but it didn't feel right the whole time.

 

If the skis and binding are good, (which they probably are) then 90 % chance your base bevel / bottom flatness is not good, or you have a severe hanging burr. My skis had an inconsistent base bevel that felt like what you describe. It can be measured by hand with a true bar and feeler gauges (how I do mine) and a magnifying glass or goggles.  I had two shops tell me they ground the bottom and the skis were good. Sadly, most shops don't really know what they are doing. I can suggest two shops that I guarantee know what they are doing, Edgewise (in VT I think) and Artech in NH.  Talk to some ski racers and ask who does their skis, use that shop for a bottom grind and base bevel set. I would recommend a .75-1.0 base and 3-4 edge.

 

A hanging burr, in case you are not familiar, means the edges have a small metal lip left over from sharpening. Using a diamond stone or ceramic stone held flat against the edge and running up and down the length of the ski will knock it off. You can see it under a magnifying glass and kind of feel it with your fingers.

 

I use SkiMD in Framingham, MA. I will guarantee if he does your skis, they will be perfect. If you don't like them after his tune, its you, not the ski. PM me if you want more info. I have my equipment prepped at Sport Thoma in Lincoln, NH--a very good shop.  I won't be up there again for a couple of weeks so might take them by SkiMD and have them check them out.  Thanks again.  

 

Scott B. 

post #7 of 28

Agree with above. With your background and skill level, you should be ripping on these skis. I doubt I'm half the skier you are, and I'm amazed every time I'm on them. It's got to be an issue with the setup or some inherent badness with your pair.

 

Another thought would be to demo another pair of MX88 and see if there's a difference.

post #8 of 28

Yeah, something seems off.  Most everyone I know who wants an everyday ski and has a race background puts the MX88 at the top of their wish list.  Just talking to a guy today about Kastle on the gondola, he raced at Western Washington, and was saving up for a pair of MX88, after demoing them.  It is the kind of ski that is more rewarding than nearly any other ski if you know how to pressure it, yet still forgiving for what it is.  

post #9 of 28

I'm in the minority camp that didn't get along with the MX skis on hard snow.  My experience with MX78's (with and without plate) and MX88's kind of mirrors yours.  Not a ski I really wanted to be on in the ice or trees.   I really felt they wanted to error to the "forgiving" so much you had to really have a firm hand with them.  That desire to happily skid made me lose confidence at initiation so things went downhill when I needed them most thereby exacerbating the problem.   The flex is nice though so fast crud skiing and powder was fun, I almost kept a pair just for crud skiing.  As an experiment, I skied a half day on firm snow on some little 158 MX88 and they initiated just fine so I thought I might not be big/strong enough for the 178's.  I only demoed the MX88 in soft conditions so cant really comment or judge hard snow initiation on that one, it did feel more "rubber damped" in crud than the 78 though (owned 2 pair).  I'm 30# lighter than the OP BTW.

 

FWIW at this point, I ended up switching to Stockli to get what I think you are after. 

 

Question, what is it that your GS skis lack?


Edited by Utagonian - 2/5/15 at 6:39am
post #10 of 28
Amazing how polarizing this ski is here. I'll throw in my vote for amazing carver, easy initiation, made me want to buy a pair. I'm only 165 lbs wet, no race background but expert colorado skier(third season) and I skied in a 178. It was brand new with a factory tune and was absolutely amazing to me. Tunes matter, get as close to factory as possible. If you really hate them, I'll buy them and get a good tune. I've been looking for a used pair since I tried them.
post #11 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kauffee View Post
 

Agree with above. With your background and skill level, you should be ripping on these skis. I doubt I'm half the skier you are, and I'm amazed every time I'm on them. It's got to be an issue with the setup or some inherent badness with your pair.

 

Another thought would be to demo another pair of MX88 and see if there's a difference.

 

Great idea on demoing another pair--that would answer the question perfectly.  Unfortunately, there aren't any places near me that demo Kastles and I am pretty busy skiing every weekend with my race team.  I might get away at the end of the month and will see about demoing then.  Thanks for the idea!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post
 

Yeah, something seems off.  Most everyone I know who wants an everyday ski and has a race background puts the MX88 at the top of their wish list.  Just talking to a guy today about Kastle on the gondola, he raced at Western Washington, and was saving up for a pair of MX88, after demoing them.  It is the kind of ski that is more rewarding than nearly any other ski if you know how to pressure it, yet still forgiving for what it is.  

I tried them again last night at practice and they still felt bad.  Another thing I noticed, and maybe this doesnt make any sense, but the ski felt dead under foot.  Like the edge was flat or not even there. Kind of feels like how my xcountry skis feel when I try to put them on edge (haha).  The edges definitely look good to touch and eye (albeit mine) but maybe something else is wrong?  Or maybe this dead feeling is just a symptom of something else.  In general, they feel like dead pieces of stiff wood.  Ugh...   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
 

I'm in the minority camp that didn't get along with the MX skis on hard snow.  My experience with MX78's (with and without plate) and MX88's kind of mirrors yours.  Not a ski I really wanted to be on in the ice or trees.   I really felt they wanted to error to the "forgiving" so much you had to really have a firm hand with them.  That desire to happily skid made me lose confidence at initiation so things went downhill when I needed them most thereby exacerbating the problem.   The flex is nice though so fast crud skiing and powder was fun, I almost kept a pair just for crud skiing.  As an experiment, I skied a half day on firm snow on some little 158 MX88 and they initiated just fine so I thought I might not be big/strong enough for the 178's.  I only demoed the MX88 in soft conditions so cant really comment or judge hard snow initiation on that one, it did feel more "rubber damped" in crud than the 78 though (owned 2 pair).  I'm 30# lighter than the OP BTW.

 

FWIW at this point, I ended up switching to Stockli to get what I think you are after. 

 

Question, what is it that your GS skis lack?

Interesting.  I will try to think about what you said when I ski them again tonight.  Not sure I am feeling the same thing--mine feel stiff and dead.  The funny thing about this is I am really not a ski equipment expert by any means and I actually have a hard describing what I like and don't like about a ski.  Also, I honestly have liked a lot about almost every ski I have skied from race to just short of powder skis.  I might find one or two small things that I am not crazy about, but for the most part I still have fun skiing the ski.  These are the only ski that more than just not liking, I simply cant ski them at all.  

 

My GS skis lack nothing--they are 100% awesomeness!  I use them all of the time.  Just looking for an additional ski that can still rip at high speed but doesn't suffer in crud/off trail.  :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smileguy1 View Post

Amazing how polarizing this ski is here. I'll throw in my vote for amazing carver, easy initiation, made me want to buy a pair. I'm only 165 lbs wet, no race background but expert colorado skier(third season) and I skied in a 178. It was brand new with a factory tune and was absolutely amazing to me. Tunes matter, get as close to factory as possible. If you really hate them, I'll buy them and get a good tune. I've been looking for a used pair since I tried them.

Good to know.  My hope is I can figure this out soon.  It is practically snowing every day he in New England!  But if I get them fixed and I still dont like them, I will be happy to sell.  

post #12 of 28

To the OP - FWIW I own both the Bonafide and the MX88 and I love them both - though the Bonafide is much more of a surfy playful ski. I don't consider myself a serious racer but I am in my local masters program and have been skiing all my life. Sounds like a bad tune or messed up ski? My MX88's are very easy to turn - just the slightest roll of the ankles and away we go on our magic rocket ship, locked into the turn like a mad dog biting a postman's leg. But then also they're super easy to release and slip if one wants to.

 

I know this is a stupid question - but you're not in the back seat, right? I find the MX88 to be very precise machine and easy to ski - unless one gets sloppy and is even slightly in the back seat.

post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calisnow View Post
 

To the OP - FWIW I own both the Bonafide and the MX88 and I love them both - though the Bonafide is much more of a surfy playful ski. I don't consider myself a serious racer but I am in my local masters program and have been skiing all my life. Sounds like a bad tune or messed up ski? My MX88's are very easy to turn - just the slightest roll of the ankles and away we go on our magic rocket ship, locked into the turn like a mad dog biting a postman's leg. But then also they're super easy to release and slip if one wants to.

 

I know this is a stupid question - but you're not in the back seat, right? I find the MX88 to be very precise machine and easy to ski - unless one gets sloppy and is even slightly in the back seat.

Yeah the bonefides were a blast to ski--I loved them!  Used them for the first time this past weekend.  They held up great on firm snow and at high speed.  

 

I am really feeling like this might be a tune issue--I am just surprised that a tune could cause such a bad change in how a ski handles.  My skis feel nothing like what you describe : (
 

As for the back seat, great question--I never like to blame my tools first.  But if I were in the back seat, I would never, ever, ever hear the end of it from my 8 and 9 year old racers :)  

post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARider View Post
 

I am really feeling like this might be a tune issue--I am just surprised that a tune could cause such a bad change in how a ski handles.  My skis feel nothing like what you describe : (

 

 

I've been on some well-reviewed skis at demo days with bad tunes that have the "dead" feeling you're describing. I'm thinking tune, also.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by calisnow View Post
 

My MX88's are very easy to turn - just the slightest roll of the ankles and away we go on our magic rocket ship, locked into the turn like a mad dog biting a postman's leg. 

 

Hah, good description. When I'm on a wide open steep I just tip them and grit my teeth and hope that I can hang on for the ride.

post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 

My guide doesn't go to 3 so I am going to check them at the shop tonight before practice.  I am very hopeful that they are waaay off.  : )

post #16 of 28

I’ve been skiing the MX88’s for 2-3 years and the first thing I learned is they don’t tolerate skiing in the back seat!  You do it….and they’ll take you for an out of control ride!!!  I found when I skied forward rolled the ankles and drove my knees properly they performed beautifully!  They reward good technique and punish otherwise.  I find the MX88 only moderately forgiving. The tune is 2/1.  Now for trees and bumps nothing for me beats the FX94’s.

post #17 of 28
Predict you will discover that some nimrod in a shop looked at those skis, said to himself (culpably), "Oh. All mountain skis. I'm going to dull back the tips and tails so they're not grabby." GROOAAAN.
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARider View Post
 

Hi All! 

 

First, about me.

 

  • 42 year old athletic male, 6 feet tall, 200 pounds
  • ex-racer, current lvl 100 coach
  • east coast (nh, vt, me)
  • Other skis:  Volkl SL WC 165 (primary ski), Rossignol GS WC 182

 

I have been looking for a 3rd ski to use as a one-ski when not coaching (I spend a lot of time on snow coaching and I use my SL skis for that).  I am looking for a non-race ski to use when not coaching.  This would be used for all types of east coast skiing from fast hard pack, ice, crud, to trees and bumps (roughly in that order).  I like to ski fast and sometimes very fast (what does "very" really mean?)  What I am looking for is a ski that can handle firm/icy at very high speeds (like my race stuff, albeit not expecting identical performance in these conditions) but that doesn't bog down in the crud/woods.  I can dream,can't I? 

 

Last year I picked up a pair of Volkl RTM 84s for a steal based on a recommendation of a friend.  These held up on ice/firm and were ridiculously easy to turn (something I actually didn't care for.)  They did well in the crud etc, but the dealbreaker (beyond the way they turned) with them was the chatter at high speed.  Awful imo. 

 

This offseason, I picked up a pair of Kastle MX88s, 178cm, used, but in pretty good shape--they seemed like a good potential match (on paper) of what I am looking for in a ski.  I have skied them about 8 times and I honestly cannot figure these skis out.  I had my local shop, one that I know and trust, prep them for me but they still ski like crap for me.  The basic issue I am having is related turn initiation.  I have been skiing a while and know how to start a turn, even when doing so on a "tough to turn" ski.  I have to force this ski into a turn so forcefully that the rest of my turn ends up sucking by that point.  Also, once the ski bites and turns, it feels like it is locking onto the edge and running straight if that can possibly make any sense. To make sure it isn't me (something I considered of course) I spent this past Sunday switching from my SL skis to my GS skis, to a bunch of demo skis, mixing my MX88s in.  The MX88s were the only skis I could not get to work (and they were not even close).  The other skis I tried spanned a wide range in the blizzard, volkl, head, and rossi lineups.  My very favorite was the Blizzard Bonafide--awesome ski, shocking at how well they skied on very hard pack considering their width.  

 

Anyway, I am trying to figure out the following:

 

  1. Is something wrong with me?  (haha)
  2. Do I have a "bad" pair of MX88s?
  3. Is something wrong with the setup of my pair (binding location? no idea?) [I had the same shop look at them and they thought the bindings etc were proper]
  4. Just the wrong ski for me?   If so, I wonder why?  As I said, the MX88 seems like the perfect ski for me on paper.  Many of the skis they are compared to ski fine for me.

 

Thanks in advance.  I am considering selling these skis--probably very soon.  I just wanted to ping the folks here in case their was something I might be overlooking.  I have them with me at work right now as I am bringing them to ski practice tonight just in case there is something left that I can try with them.  Sigh...

 

MARider


Let me ask a question another way.  

Did you at any point wonder if they were TOO sharp?  That they bit the snow too fast, locked into the snow and carved ahead in a locked position going straight rather than in a turny curve, that you could not disengage them from doing this, and that this whole process happened unexpectedly fast when you did your normal thing to initiate a turn?  Did they resist skidding if you chose to not carve?  Did you find that you could not do a sideslip with them without them grabbing unexpectedly?  Did you feel like they were going to throw you down fast before you got back to the lodge?  Were they hooky/grabby in an uncontrollable way?

post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Predict you will discover that some nimrod in a shop looked at those skis, said to himself (culpably), "Oh. All mountain skis. I'm going to dull back the tips and tails so they're not grabby." GROOAAAN.
Hahaha then there would be an epic ski fight over it.
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Predict you will discover that some nimrod in a shop looked at those skis, said to himself (culpably), "Oh. All mountain skis. I'm going to dull back the tips and tails so they're not grabby." GROOAAAN.

I took them into the mountain shop before practice last night.  A nice guy who I don't know (I don't use the mountain shop) took a look at them and said he would check them out quick before practice (I had about 20 minutes before practice started and I wanted to use them at practice).  He said the angles were off (he didn't say what they were but he said they were definitely not 1/3).  He reset the angles for me while I put my stuff on for practice.  I have to admit I had very low expectations to see any improvement.  Well, all I can say is wow.  What a difference.  Was like putting on an entirely new, entirely different pair of skis.  I don't know if it was just the angles being off or something else that ended up getting corrected when he did the angles, but the difference was striking.  I have been on skis many, many times that were in dire need of a tune that never felt as bad as these did prior to fixing.  Maybe speaks to the difference between dull edges and just a bad/incorrect tune.  No idea what was wrong with them but something certainly was.  I didn't get a chance to push them as we spent most of the night working on slow speed progressions (1000 steps, hops turns, etc).  But they were clearly skiing the way I would expect/want.  I will push them this weekend on some terrain and report back!  Thanks everyone!  

 

PS.  Just ordered a guide that goes up to (and past) 5.  Also, I have a new found respect for the difference between needed a tune and having a bad tune.  Lesson learned.  

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 


Let me ask a question another way.  

Did you at any point wonder if they were TOO sharp?  That they bit the snow too fast, locked into the snow and carved ahead in a locked position going straight rather than in a turny curve, that you could not disengage them from doing this, and that this whole process happened unexpectedly fast when you did your normal thing to initiate a turn?  Did they resist skidding if you chose to not carve?  Did you find that you could not do a sideslip with them without them grabbing unexpectedly?  Did you feel like they were going to throw you down fast before you got back to the lodge?  Were they hooky/grabby in an uncontrollable way?

 

Part of the way they skied felt too sharp--no queston. Not being able to disengage. But they also felt very dull underfoot if that makes any sense.  They were not hooky or grabby--just the opposite.  I had to push ridiculously hard to get them to bite, but once they bit, they wouldn't let go.  Just an awful combination.  Thanks goodness they are much better now.  I am going to rework on them myself with a friend of mine who has been coaching for 25 years this weekend (he overheard me talking about this and insisted).  All it is going to cost me is a couple 12 packs of good beer. :D  

 

 

Thanks again everyone.  Awesome help!

post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARider View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Predict you will discover that some nimrod in a shop looked at those skis, said to himself (culpably), "Oh. All mountain skis. I'm going to dull back the tips and tails so they're not grabby." GROOAAAN.
I took them into the mountain shop before practice last night.  A nice guy who I don't know (I don't use the mountain shop) took a look at them and said he would check them out quick before practice (I had about 20 minutes before practice started and I wanted to use them at practice).  He said the angles were off (he didn't say what they were but he said they were definitely not 1/3).  He reset the angles for me while I put my stuff on for practice.  I have to admit I had very low expectations to see any improvement.  Well, all I can say is wow.  What a difference.  Was like putting on an entirely new, entirely different pair of skis.  I don't know if it was just the angles being off or something else that ended up getting corrected when he did the angles, but the difference was striking.  I have been on skis many, many times that were in dire need of a tune that never felt as bad as these did prior to fixing.  Maybe speaks to the difference between dull edges and just a bad/incorrect tune.  No idea what was wrong with them but something certainly was.  I didn't get a chance to push them as we spent most of the night working on slow speed progressions (1000 steps, hops turns, etc).  But they were clearly skiing the way I would expect/want.  I will push them this weekend on some terrain and report back!  Thanks everyone!  

PS.  Just ordered a guide that goes up to (and past) 5.  Also, I have a new found respect for the difference between needed a tune and having a bad tune.  Lesson learned.  

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

 


Let me ask a question another way.  
Did you at any point wonder if they were TOO sharp?  That they bit the snow too fast, locked into the snow and carved ahead in a locked position going straight rather than in a turny curve, that you could not disengage them from doing this, and that this whole process happened unexpectedly fast when you did your normal thing to initiate a turn?  Did they resist skidding if you chose to not carve?  Did you find that you could not do a sideslip with them without them grabbing unexpectedly?  Did you feel like they were going to throw you down fast before you got back to the lodge?  Were they hooky/grabby in an uncontrollable way?

Part of the way they skied felt too sharp--no queston. Not being able to disengage. But they also felt very dull underfoot if that makes any sense.  They were not hooky or grabby--just the opposite.  I had to push ridiculously hard to get them to bite, but once they bit, they wouldn't let go.  Just an awful combination.  Thanks goodness they are much better now.  I am going to rework on them myself with a friend of mine who has been coaching for 25 years this weekend (he overheard me talking about this and insisted).  All it is going to cost me is a couple 12 packs of good beer. biggrin.gif   


Thanks again everyone.  Awesome help!

What was the issue that caused this problem? Did you find out from the shop tech or are you still in the dark so we've learned nothing?

Angles simply being off is unlikely to have such a bad effect unless they were beveled the wrong way - towards the base instead of away. Pretty sure he didn't regrind the base in 15 minutes.
post #22 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post


What was the issue that caused this problem? Did you find out from the shop tech or are you still in the dark so we've learned nothing?

Angles simply being off is unlikely to have such a bad effect unless they were beveled the wrong way - towards the base instead of away. Pretty sure he didn't regrind the base in 15 minutes.

Great question and I honestly have no idea (so yes, still in the dark, zero learned essentially).  I haven't been back to my shop that prepped them for me originally.   What I can say is, I used them once after I purchased them (demo, ebay), but before I had them worked on.  They skied like crap then, which i why I took them in to have them done at my shop.  After the tune (full grind, etc) they still skied like crap.  I then started to think it was either a bad pair of skis or just me (which is why I posted here)  When I had my local mtn shop where we race check them the other day, all he did was reset the angles.  10 minutes max.  I have skied them 5 times now since then and they are fantastic.  I wish I knew what was wrong, and why it wasn't corrected when I took them to my go-to shop, but I am really just happy they are working well now.  I was very close to selling them.  Glad I didn't.

 

But in the mean time, I fell in love with a pair of Bonefides from my demo day......: )

post #23 of 28
The thing is, skis aren't tuned by shops, they're tuned by individuals. So very often saying you took your skis to shop x is about as meaningful as saying you got your hair cut at place y. "Who cut it?" is the real question. Some extremely well staffed and managed shops may be the exceptions that prove the rule, I suppose.
post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARider View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

What was the issue that caused this problem? Did you find out from the shop tech or are you still in the dark so we've learned nothing?


Angles simply being off is unlikely to have such a bad effect unless they were beveled the wrong way - towards the base instead of away. Pretty sure he didn't regrind the base in 15 minutes.
Great question and I honestly have no idea (so yes, still in the dark, zero learned essentially).  I haven't been back to my shop that prepped them for me originally.   What I can say is, I used them once after I purchased them (demo, ebay), but before I had them worked on.  They skied like crap then, which i why I took them in to have them done at my shop.  After the tune (full grind, etc) they still skied like crap.  I then started to think it was either a bad pair of skis or just me (which is why I posted here)  When I had my local mtn shop where we race check them the other day, all he did was reset the angles.  10 minutes max.  I have skied them 5 times now since then and they are fantastic.  I wish I knew what was wrong, and why it wasn't corrected when I took them to my go-to shop, but I am really just happy they are working well now.  I was very close to selling them.  Glad I didn't.

But in the mean time, I fell in love with a pair of Bonefides from my demo day......: )
Maybe just call and find out?
Here you were ready to sell the ski and someone spends 10 minutes on it and now you love it. As a coach you might be able to fix someone else's skis with a similar problem. Only if you know what's going on though.
post #25 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

The thing is, skis aren't tuned by shops, they're tuned by individuals. So very often saying you took your skis to shop x is about as meaningful as saying you got your hair cut at place y. "Who cut it?" is the real question. Some extremely well staffed and managed shops may be the exceptions that prove the rule, I suppose.

 

Very true.  I have no idea who actually worked on my skis once I left them.    

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post


Maybe just call and find out?
Here you were ready to sell the ski and someone spends 10 minutes on it and now you love it. As a coach you might be able to fix someone else's skis with a similar problem. Only if you know what's going on though.

 

Yeah I gave them a call.  I even brought them back to the shop.  I was thinking they somehow must have simply not worked on them at all by mistake (considering how similar they felt before and after they worked on them).  But when I brought them back in, a guy in the shop who I didnt know looked at them and said they were fine and that they had indeed been tuned (he was a bit indignant too, offputting but whatever).  I guess if I had been thinking more about the possibility of a "bad" tune at that time, I might have pushed my case (although I am not really sure what I could have said).  

post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARider View Post


But in the mean time, I fell in love with a pair of Bonefides from my demo day......: )

Forget those, try the new Nordica Enforcer.
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARider View Post
Originally Posted by Tog View Post


Maybe just call and find out?
Here you were ready to sell the ski and someone spends 10 minutes on it and now you love it. As a coach you might be able to fix someone else's skis with a similar problem. Only if you know what's going on though.

 

Yeah I gave them a call.  I even brought them back to the shop.  I was thinking they somehow must have simply not worked on them at all by mistake (considering how similar they felt before and after they worked on them).  But when I brought them back in, a guy in the shop who I didnt know looked at them and said they were fine and that they had indeed been tuned (he was a bit indignant too, offputting but whatever).  I guess if I had been thinking more about the possibility of a "bad" tune at that time, I might have pushed my case (although I am not really sure what I could have said).  

No, the person who fixed them. Then you'd know. And we'd know. Surely it's worth a beer to the guy who stopped you from selling a ski.

 

At that point you might be able to go back to the manager of the first shop and say, "these skis came back x....". But otherwise, you've got not too much to go on. It's amazing the attitude in shops though. First, they complain that no one notices, then when someone does, they complain that the person doesn't know anything.

post #28 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

No, the person who fixed them. Then you'd know. And we'd know. Surely it's worth a beer to the guy who stopped you from selling a ski.

 

At that point you might be able to go back to the manager of the first shop and say, "these skis came back x....". But otherwise, you've got not too much to go on. It's amazing the attitude in shops though. First, they complain that no one notices, then when someone does, they complain that the person doesn't know anything.

Ah yeah.  The guy that fixed him seems like a super nice guy.  I don't know him because I never use the shop (ironically it has a bad reputation among the racers/coaches).  But I did swing by after last practice to talk with him about (if only to thank him again) to see what was the issue but he wasn't in.  I will be back there Monday so I will hopefully get a chance to ask him.  And agreed on being able to go back to the first shop with something concrete.    

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