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Short (height) GS Racers - Tips?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

As I have started to return to racing. I have found that a lot has changed from 10 years ago when I was a high school student.

 

My biggest problem is the length and radius of the GS skis of today.

 

I am a short guy weighing in at 65kg (~145lbs) and have no problem laying down power over my 165 SL skis. I have started training on a friends pair of 2013 186cm Fischers with 27m radius and I am having trouble really getting the power to the skis like I can in SL. At the moment I have to scrub the really tight turns and pray I make the next gate.

 

If I am expected to race on at least 190's with 35m sidecut, what are some key tips to lay down the power to get the skis flex? 

Also, what are some trends that changed over 10 years in the GS skiing technique?

 

I will say, training on the GS skis has improved my SL power and technique.

post #2 of 25

I'm lighter than you at about 140lbs and I have no trouble as long as I can get up to speed in a course. Bring your speed up as fast as possible (ski high and round to start with) and you'll be able to use momentum to bend the skis. Guys like Hirscher were successful on the WC at 150lbs... no reason you cannot be competitive at 145lbs.

post #3 of 25

You will probably find that the 190/35s have a softer flex than the 186/27s you are using.  Actually we have found that the 195/35 is normally a better flex than the 190/35.  Seems like they have just used the same lay-up in the 190 as the 195 and it actually makes it stiffer rather than easier

post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
 

I'm lighter than you at about 140lbs and I have no trouble as long as I can get up to speed in a course. Bring your speed up as fast as possible (ski high and round to start with) and you'll be able to use momentum to bend the skis. Guys like Hirscher were successful on the WC at 150lbs... no reason you cannot be competitive at 145lbs.

At speed the skis feel great, but it is those first 3 gates where it feels like I get that sense I could topple over at any moment. Once I get that feeling, I scrub up. It isn't until half way through the course that I feel comfortable. Next training I'll give the starting high advice a shot. I know I can do it, it is just trying to connect the dots and put the pieces together that I'm finding difficult.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

You will probably find that the 190/35s have a softer flex than the 186/27s you are using.  Actually we have found that the 195/35 is normally a better flex than the 190/35.  Seems like they have just used the same lay-up in the 190 as the 195 and it actually makes it stiffer rather than easier

That is really interesting. I'll have to convince some of the other race team members to let me try their longer skis out (or some of the local high school guys). Thanks for the ski details.

post #5 of 25

If I am expected to race on at least 190's with 35m sidecut, 

 

Who the hell is expecting this?  Are you racing FIS events?

 

If local or master league, get some cheaters 175-185 depending on how they set.

post #6 of 25

Ditto regarding cheaters assuming you are racing local or masters.  Probably a good idea to run a local league / masters anyway for your re-entry into racing.  There are a number of choices for skis:  non-FIS Racetiger Speedwall GS, Fischer RC's, Rossi Masters or 9GS (I think both the same ski), non-FIS Atomic Redsters, etc.  I'm sure I'm forgetting several others, but easy enough to do a search for cheaters.

 

I had the same issue as you but with a 23M WC women's GS- basically I wasn't man enough for a real 'girl' ski, LOL, which made it even more impressive to see a 120 lb lady fly in such skis.  Too difficult for me to cleanly arc until fully up to speed, plus I had trouble keeping them hooked up through the usual 'kicker' gate or two set way out there.  Went to a cheater radius (R>19M) and have been pretty happy with that.  I recommend you find one with a construction similar to the maker's WC ski, which will likely have two layers of metal and will be noticeably heavier than a recreational-oriented ski.

post #7 of 25
He's in Japan... I'm guessing they take the FIS regs pretty seriously even for non-FIS stuff.
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

He's in Japan... I'm guessing they take the FIS regs pretty seriously even for non-FIS stuff.

 

Markojp nailed it on the head.

 

In Japan, all GS races in my area for adults have been using the FIS regs. The SL races aren't as strict because SL isn't really popular where I am (currently on 160's).

 

I've been battling getting a cheater ski for a while but as I am still 25 years old, I fall into the 190/35 category. Not having the FIS ski already causes me to not start close to 80% of races I can enter. Back in the states I wouldn't have thought twice about a cheater.

post #9 of 25
Does Ogasaka make a FIS GS ski that doesn't cost a mint? Generally, their skis always worked well for lighter skiers.
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Does Ogasaka make a FIS GS ski that doesn't cost a mint? Generally, their skis always worked well for lighter skiers.

Yes, they do. They are priced identical to other makers here. Other makers are taxed high but Ogasaka has a higher base price without import tax. -_-

 

Right now my SL skis are Ogasaka. One of the local high school kids uses the GS FIS version from 2 years ago (when they changed the rules to 190/35 for high school boys in JP), maybe tonight at practice we'll switch for a run or two.

 

I've been invited to do some testing in March by one of the biggest ski retailers in Japan. Maybe then I can get a feel for which ski is best, but for now I want to work on form.

Right now, my biggest focus is laying down the power at low speeds and getting comfortable with a longer ski.

post #11 of 25

I just think you need to learn to drive the tips of the GS skis. On the 165 slaloms you can ski the middle of the ski and the tip gets pressure. On the Straighter GS skis you have to drive your weight into the cuff of the boot to get the tip to bend and start your turn.

post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by NordtheBarbarian View Post
 

I just think you need to learn to drive the tips of the GS skis. On the 165 slaloms you can ski the middle of the ski and the tip gets pressure. On the Straighter GS skis you have to drive your weight into the cuff of the boot to get the tip to bend and start your turn.

Thumbs Up  This!

post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuckerpooks View Post
 

 

Markojp nailed it on the head.

 

In Japan, all GS races in my area for adults have been using the FIS regs. The SL races aren't as strict because SL isn't really popular where I am (currently on 160's).

 

I've been battling getting a cheater ski for a while but as I am still 25 years old, I fall into the 190/35 category. Not having the FIS ski already causes me to not start close to 80% of races I can enter. Back in the states I wouldn't have thought twice about a cheater.

Hmm...

 

I'll start a separate thread so I don't hijack this one, but looks like I will have a free weekend in Japan March 14-15.  Squeezing in some rec racing would be awesome!  At least some fun skiing.

post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NordtheBarbarian View Post
 

I just think you need to learn to drive the tips of the GS skis. On the 165 slaloms you can ski the middle of the ski and the tip gets pressure. On the Straighter GS skis you have to drive your weight into the cuff of the boot to get the tip to bend and start your turn.

Yeah, I've been working with some coaches the past few days and this was their biggest observation. The more I work on it, the better it will get.

Thanks for cementing what I need to focus on!

post #15 of 25
Also, you don't say what boot you are using. Check it is not too stiff and making it harder for you to drive into the cuff an tip of the ski
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 

Using a set of Lange RS 120 S.C. right now. Still both pins in.

 

Having them be too stiff was a worry I had when buying them. Think it would be worth a shit to try removing one pin and seeing how I fare?

post #17 of 25
You can try it but 120 should be ok
post #18 of 25

you could also make sure the top buckles are not tight at all - see if it makes a difference, especially if it's really cold.

post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

you could also make sure the top buckles are not tight at all - see if it makes a difference, especially if it's really cold.

 

 

Hoping to god that the power strap/booster strap is snugged well under the shell, Razie.

post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 

A little update:

 

I've been training on the 27m Fischers I had before and also some 2014 182/23 Nordica Dobermanns.

 

I thought I would enjoy the 23m sidecut much more than the 27m, but I don't. In a race course, I enjoy the 27m much more. This is giving me a little more confidence if I am going to buy the real deal for racing GS next year. I'm not sure if it is the flex or the sidecut, but as a result the 186/27m became super fun. 

 

I guess the next step is to find someone with 190/35 and beg them for a go.

 

I think it was ScotsSkier or Atomicman who said it in another post, "You're too focused on sidecut! Don't forget about the flex!"

post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuckerpooks View Post
 

A little update:

 

I've been training on the 27m Fischers I had before and also some 2014 182/23 Nordica Dobermanns.

 

I thought I would enjoy the 23m sidecut much more than the 27m, but I don't. In a race course, I enjoy the 27m much more. This is giving me a little more confidence if I am going to buy the real deal for racing GS next year. I'm not sure if it is the flex or the sidecut, but as a result the 186/27m became super fun. 

 

I guess the next step is to find someone with 190/35 and beg them for a go.

 

I think it was ScotsSkier or Atomicman who said it in another post, "You're too focused on sidecut! Don't forget about the flex!"

IT WAS BOTH OF US!:D

post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuckerpooks View Post
 

A little update:

 

I've been training on the 27m Fischers I had before and also some 2014 182/23 Nordica Dobermanns.

 

I thought I would enjoy the 23m sidecut much more than the 27m, but I don't. In a race course, I enjoy the 27m much more. This is giving me a little more confidence if I am going to buy the real deal for racing GS next year. I'm not sure if it is the flex or the sidecut, but as a result the 186/27m became super fun. 

 

I guess the next step is to find someone with 190/35 and beg them for a go.

 

I think it was ScotsSkier or Atomicman who said it in another post, "You're too focused on sidecut! Don't forget about the flex!"

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

IT WAS BOTH OF US!:D


SSSHHH!!!   Don't tell UtahSaint.....:popcorn 

post #23 of 25
Reading this I am near to the decision to move from 191/27 to 195/35 as my new GS ski size, especially when I weight 230 lbs.
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 

I only weigh 160lbs-170lbs but found the HEAD 2016 190/35 to flex much better than a Nordica 186/27. I have no regrets moving into the WC ski.

 

I just pulled the trigger on a Head 2015 195/35 for spring training and next season. Got a super deal on 'em. Will report later.

post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuckerpooks View Post

I only weigh 160lbs-170lbs but found the HEAD 2016 190/35 to flex much better than a Nordica 186/27. I have no regrets moving into the WC ski.

I just pulled the trigger on a Head 2015 195/35 for spring training and next season. Got a super deal on 'em. Will report later.

Yes, the flex is better. More critical than the radius..
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