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MA request voghan

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

I recently was out west and had action photos taken so I figured I'd post them here and see if I can get some feedback on my form.  I've been meaning to get back in lessons again but just haven't found the time.  Thanks in advance.








post #2 of 15

Hi V,

I don't usually chime in here on MA, since I'm not an instructor or expert.  However, these images remind me somewhat of my own issues, so I'm going to offer something up in hopes that others will confirm my own take on stuff.  


My take would be that you need to work on more angulation -- that is separation of upper body and lower body, so that upper stays more upright and downhill and legs extend at an angle to the snow.  Right now, every turn looks like you are banking, or inclining; you are stacked over your skis in a straight (although angled) line.  This means your shoulders get angled and you are not keeping them level.  


This kind of turn works OK in certain situations, and allows one to ride an edge through a sweeper...but it does not lend itself to efficient shorter radius turns or quick changes of direction.  In addition, you seem in at least a couple of images to be leaning into the hill; this works against fully weighting your skis, esp. the downhill edge.  This will compromise your final edge grip.  


I'll be interested in what others say.

post #3 of 15

not sure if you wanted to be square with the camera but in some pictures you look too much countered. so outside ski is way behind the inside ski. next time try not to look at the camera that may help :)

post #4 of 15

I'm in the same boat as tch, this kind of looks like me right now.  I agree, it looks like you need to keep your upper body more upright (less banking).  Also, it looks like in every turn your shoulders are pointed where the skis are pointed, instead of down the hill.

post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thanks for feedback.  I've been trying to not be so banked on the turns. Next time I'll be sure to ignore the camera guy too.  I suppose that probably didn't help my posture in these.

post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 

I recently took some GoPro video of my skis using a chest harness.  Working on my narrowing my stance and making a parallel turn.  I developed a bit of a push with my outside ski that I think is gone.  Any feedback would be appreciated.


post #7 of 15
I wouldn't worry one bit about narrowing your stance at all and am curious why you think that. Even if that were an issue, there are elements much more fundamental, as rendered above (and probably on the way), where I could recommend that you streamline your focus. BTW, the way you are facing and smiling to the camera in the stills is hilarious and looks like you are having a great time.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
My stance was getting wide on transition. I was/am pushing out my outside ski and wedging the turn. My goal was to make my legs turn together. I think it's a lot better in these videos but I wasn't sure if the movements looked right.
post #9 of 15
In the video, I see the skis being turned very quickly, then not much happens until they are again quickly turned back the other way

I can't tell but seems you would have more of a z shape than s shape

So, bother sky's are turning. I'd suggest turning them more slowly over a longer duration to promote roundness
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
I took a lesson and worked on fixing the upper body to stop the banking in turns. You can't tell from the video what the upper body is doing so I was concentrating on my stance and tipping. I was pushing out my heels and making a small wedge on my turns before. I think the quick movement in the videos is the transition.
post #11 of 15

I think I like what you're trying to do with your feet, but I have one concern. I'm seeing a lot of ski tips sliding about left and right as it if it not engaged properly. Is it a tuning issue or an edge and/or forward pressure issue?  Can't tell from the vids, but your ski tips are not moving through their path in a stable manner as I would expect them to. 

post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
So this is what I was told in my lesson...i dont tip enough. Narrowing the stance was one of the things we did to make it easier for me to tip my skis. I feel like my skis are tipping but that is something I'm looking at.
post #13 of 15

Hard to tell from the vid but it looks as though you are not centered on your skis.   It looks like that from a couple of the places where your shadow is visible.  Getting centered over your skis may be the first step to being able to guide the tips through the turn.

post #14 of 15

The stance width our bodies have been balancing with since about age 1 is with the feet under the sockets of the hip joints.  There is no reason for a wider stance when skiing...unless your boots are sloppy loose.  Narrow your stance to walking width, and keep your legs (not your feet) that far apart all the time.  The feet won't get wider, but when you angulate in a turn you need to raise the inside foot to allow this to happen.  This isn't widening the stance--the legs remain 2" or whatever apart.


Stand on the balls of your feet all the time.


You're too heavy on the inside ski.  All kinds of numbers are bandied about, 90% & 10%, 97% & 3%, 60-40, and they're all nonsense.  We have no way to measure this, so we can't intelligently talk about numbers or percentages.  Anyway, for a drill, ski with the tail (only the tail) of the inside ski lifted about an inch off the snow.  At the end of one turn, lift the tail of the new inside ski, then turn.  When you ski after this drill, keep very light on the inside ski.  As a test for yourself, sometime in the middle of a turn, momentarily lift that inside tail off the snow.  If you can do this, you know you're doing it right.  To improve this even more, as you lighten the inside ski, roll your ankle inside the boot to life the big toe edge off the snow.  For this drill, you'll have only the outside curve of the ski shovel gliding on the snow.  Even when you finally put that ski lightly on the snow, continue rolling the ankle all the way through every turn.


Keep the ski tips as even as possible. Do not shove the inside foot forward.  Keep a constant strong pull back on the inside foot all the time all the way through every turn.  You'll feel like you've turned on power steering.  People will say to keep the same angles across the ankles, hips, & shoulders.  They never say why for a very good reason.  There is no reason.  It's just a trope that won't die.  Maybe it was something about style some time in the past.  Kill it.


While you're pulling the inside foot strongly back all the time, push the inside hip forward.  Sounds contradictory, but works well.  You want the hip/shoulder/inside arm to be forward.  This is called counter.  The earlier in the turn that you counter, the better.  Some say to ski into counter.  Nah.  Push the hip into counter very early in the turn.  Do not reach across your body to plant the pole.  The correct spot for the pole tap, with just a twitch of the wrist, is down the fall line from your outside heel.


Your last pic shows the beginning of good angulation.  The flex at the waist and spine that gets your upper body out past your toe bindings.  The steeper the hill, the more you need to angulate.  Note how the inside foot is lifted up in this pic.  This is what I referred to in the first paragraph.  This isn't widening the stance on the turn, this is flexing the leg and lightening that ski to allow the angulation.


Initiate the turn with your body center of mass forward of the toe bindings.  Pull both feet strongly behind you when you start the turn.  This engages the broad tips of the skis so they pull you around the turn.  The steeper the hill and the tighter the turns, the more you need to pull your feet way back.


Don't jerk your skis around to start the turn.  On an easy slope, practice smooth progressive movements.  Allow the turn to come to you.  Don't hurry it.

post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 

@SoftSnowGuy A lot of what you said is what I've been working on since these photos were taken. Unfortunately early on in my skiing I took lessons from a guy that emphasized pushing hard on the stance ski to make it turn.  I think this lead to me push out my heel to start a turn.  Since then I've taken lessons for others and am working on keeping my weight off that inside ski.  I seem to do it ok in drills but fall back to two footed skiing.  One thing that kind of resinated with me after my last set of lessons was to ski like i'm telemark skiing... that is lift the inside ski, pull it back then tip it.  I associate the pulling back to how telemark skiers ski but I know its not the same.


Thanks everyone for the feedback.  I know I have a lot of work ahead of me and look forward to getting better.

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