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Need specific "big toe" exercise

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Okay guys and gals, put on your thinking caps (lisamarie-cups?)and give me a hand here.

A recent back injury has changed my skiing slightly. Instead of depending on releasing my downhill ski(collapse the lower leg) to initiate my turn and then continue with a soft push off on the uphill big toe, I need to now do the following.

Initiate the turn with releasing the lower ski edge, but really push/extend the upper leg. This is really putting pressure on the up hill big toe while I am leaning forward on my foot.

What is goofing me up is usually I do a "calf raise" when I push off on my toes (in street shoes). This is not what happens in ski boots.

I can stand one footed on a dynadisk, lean forward and push off my big toe, driving me sideways. This seems an abrupt exercise and one sided.

Whenever I use the Fitter, I don't have a forward lean, because there is no one to catch me from falling forward. I never seemed to get the big toe push feeling.

Any thoughts out there? : :
post #2 of 12
Check these out: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m.../article.jhtml

and these: http://harbskisystems.com/dryland.htm#series

The next step is to figure out how much of this is an actual physical limitation, or a question of decreased proprioception resultinf grom your back injury.
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
I'm pissed...just had a great explaination...and used too many mad smilies...and lost my post. : : : : : : : :
post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 
Had to get that out of my system.

Lisamarie, thanks for the sites, but I can and do, do those things already.

Maybe it is words. The uphill ski needs to be placed on edge early in the turn. To do this, push off on your big toe.

Well, if I push off on my big toe, I do a toe lift and lose cuff contact. Really what it means is with pressure on the big toe side of your boot, and keeping cuff contact(heel pulled back), apply pressure by extending your hips downhill, by extending your thigh.

I'm trying to get a dryland exercise to do.

If I sit down with my Fitter(love it), and do a calf exercise with a dynadisk on the pad, I have 1-heel pulled back so I have cuff contact 2-rolling on the inside edge on big toe side.

But the only way to get extension of my thigh(hip) downhill is if I stand...but that uses my other foot!

And when I roller blade, when I extend, my foot opens up in a toe lift.The boots don't keep my ankle flexed foward like a ski boot.

Is there no dryland for this one important movement? Is it just me??? Is it my proprioceptors? Is it the Scotch I drink?

Help!!! : :
post #5 of 12
I have looked through all my resources, and I think you have me stumped on this one. This may be crossing the line between post rehab and prevention and actual physical therapy.
What I need to do, is go through my Wicca manuals and conjure up Georgia PT, a physical therapist and ski instructor who used to post here. She was extremely knowledgale about feet.
Georgia, in the name of the Mother Goddess, I summon thee!!

Seriously speaking, a recent visit to Gordon of http://www.solesystems.com made me realize how limited a fitness instructor's education is about the biomechanics of the feet. Recently, with the popularity of Pilates, we are finally seeing what is actually going on inside our students aerobic shoes. YIKES!!!!
Hopefully, with time, more of this info will be incorporated into our certification programs.
Sorry I could'nt help you on this one.
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Not wanted to start a flamewar with you, because:
1-you've helped me so far.
2-you always win.

but (I'm a man and no one said i was smart)

didn't you one time post how could someone be a ski instructor and not know the Q angle?

So how can you be a fitness instructor and not know an exercise for skiing. You do teach a ski exercise class...don't you?

(On knees), please forgive me. Help me find the exercise I need. Do you understand the motion I am trying to reporduce?
post #7 of 12
I find it equally as outrageous that the fitness industry has not given us a more detailed eductaion as to the mechanics of the feet. [BTW, that does it make it any less outrageous that some ski instructors never had the Q angle explained to them]But be comparing my lack of a specific exercise for the big toe, to the lack of understanding of how the Q angle effects alignment, you have, in fact, made my case in point.
In all my years of teaching, no one has ever come to me with a specific exercise for the big toe.
But a significant # of people on the hill {coincidentally, many of them women} may have stance and alignment issues related to q angle.
So you are saying, in a sense, that the q angle issues are as small as the issue of the one in a millionth person who may come into a fitness class asking for a bog toe exercise! No wonder many women get discouraged by ski lessons!

Just to clarify, we do get a perfunctory education, but it was only recently that I realized the complexity of the whole process.

To be fair, this whole concept of core stability and sport specific exercise has only recently become a well known phenomena.
You would be amazed, if you did a search for "ski conditioning", how many sites created by people who generally command a great deal of respect within the industry, will still feature exercises such as the leg extension machine and abdominal crunches. In fact, you will not see a thing about ankle, foot or stabiity exercise by many so called "experts" in this industry.

Although I have said this many times before, there is a fine distinction between what can be determined as physical therapy, and what can be consdered preventative or conditioning exercise. Fitness instructors are strictly forbidden to perscribe exercises that would be considered physical therapy. And in cases like yours, where the condition is highly unique, we would not have the adequate information to do this, especially in a "cyber" situation, where we cannot do a physical assesment of whatis going on with the student.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 02, 2001 03:18 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Lisamarie ]</font>
post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
Absolutely right. Prescription...be real careful. Thanks for looking up information though.

You're right. Experts in any field are not experts for long because informaiton changes so quickly.

On has to be brave to say, I know it, but not all of it.
post #9 of 12
Ok, Just spoke to a collegue, Physical Therapist, personal trainer, ski racer. My first instincts were correct. There is a direct relationship between a disc problem in the spine anf the big toe. What it comes fown to is proprioception, Isolated muscle work for the toe will not work, since the problem is not in the toe, but in the nerve. You should continue to do the exercises you are doing. Your balance is well beyond what is generally expected of anyone who has had a sciatic nerve problem. Hopefully with time, the big toe will gain more proprioception.
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
So Lisamarie, what you are suggesting is that I ask my wife to play footsies more often with me?

Will the foot fetish interfere with my skiing?

Will it destroy my Mr. Rodgers image?

Seriously though, I am not convinced it is related to my disk, because of 2 things. 1 - it is on both sides I am trying to reproduce the movement, yet it was only my right side that had any difficulty. (misdiagnosed? who knows?) 2 - if it is movement, I want to try to duplicate the movement, whether I can feel it or not.

Are you still up at Okemo skiing beginning of January. I am in a clinic at Bromley Thursday/Friday 1/3-4. I will hopefully be training skier-J for his Senior at Jiminy Peak on Saturday PM on 1/5.

Maybe we could meet at Okemo 1/5 Saturday day, and I can demonstrate the move I can't reproduce in an exercise room. Also we could do some skiing!?
Thanks for the help.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 02, 2001 05:19 PM: Message edited 1 time, by KeeTov ]</font>
post #11 of 12
Yes, I still plan to go. I am currently #9 on the wait list for the workshop. It depends upon whether they can get enough female teachers. But even if I do get in, we can probably meet up. As I recall, they finish up at about 3:00pm. Warning, though, I am probably the world's slowest skier! Require's a good deal of patience!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 02, 2001 06:25 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Lisamarie ]</font>
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
I figured it out!!! I was in the middle of a lengthy email explaination to my Director, and I got it!

Using the FITTER(of course) instead of the abductor exercise as listed, here is the modifications.

Place one foot on the pad on the inside edge so the maximum up and down movement is possible. Place the other foot NOT on the FITTER to support it, but in front almost in a front lunge position.

With the FITTER pushed against a wall to keep it from moving, abduct the thigh, keep the heel back and rock downward on the toe side of the foot pad. The foward movement of your CM,the extension of the thigh in the abduction movement is done by doing a soft forward lunge onto the foot that is placed off and forward of the FITTER.

What got my mind thinking on fixing the earlier mistakes, was I don't need to do a calf exercise at the same time.

A none FITTER method (sorry) is to have the dynadisk on a towel. Don't sit down, lean against a table. Slide the towel/dynadisk towards you at the same time you rock off of the table, rolling your foot onto the big toe side. When you rock off of the table, you are extending your leg, and the heel is pulled back!

Give it a try. I will work on it and see if it really does what I say it does.
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