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Is there an optimun forward pressure for ski bindings? - Page 2

post #31 of 39

Best advice, read some of the heated binding threads and go from there.  Don't get caught up in the binding specific portion of discussions.

post #32 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

Best advice, read some of the heated binding threads and go from there.  Don't get caught up in the binding specific portion of discussions.

Right now there are 8 pairs of bindings sitting in my basement - 3 Look Axial, 3 Tyrolia Free Flex, 1 Marker, and 1 Vist, and it is only the Vist which has spooked me because the others have never popped prematurely, only the Vist. And it is only the Vist which has unintentionally provided me with a way to dial in the forward pressure to within a whisker. Naturally I want to make the most of that feature even if there is no documentation about doing so. Unfortunately the Vist is inseparable from the best GS ski (Nordica Dobermann GS Pro) that I have had to date, so I want to keep using it.

 

Thanks for your encouragement.

post #33 of 39

The next things I would ask is:

 

  • Have you checked the binding and does the DIN settings fall within specs with a binding testing tool.
  • Did you have snow under your boot.
  • How do you know it was premature release.
  • How do you know it was not a correct release.

 

Finally, have you downloaded a Vist manual? If not go looking very easy to find, took me all of about 10 seconds.

post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
 

 

Now if only this principle applied to ski bindings.....you could set your DIN according to your skiing handicap....

and that would take into consideration bone density and leverage arms which is why a DIN calculator scale was invented in the first place

post #35 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

The next things I would ask is:

 

 

  • Have you checked the binding and does the DIN settings fall within specs with a binding testing tool.  ANS: these tools are not available locally.
  • Did you have snow under your boot. ANS: all the racers helped each other scrape our boot soles before the race.
  • How do you know it was premature release. ANS: I did not fall, it popped off in the middle of the turn near the gate and there was no deep rut, I skied another 20 feet on one foot.
  • How do you know it was not a correct release. ANS: if it was a correct release, then that would mean that with most of my weight on the outside ski, my shin pressure exceeded the DIN. Never happened before during 215 race starts with other brands, but this happened on the 17 th. race with Vist.

 

Finally, have you downloaded a Vist manual? If not go looking very easy to find, took me all of about 10 seconds. ANS: I did that in 2013 and the information about the "elastic recovery screw" on page 15 is pretty clear.

post #36 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 

and that would take into consideration bone density and leverage arms which is why a DIN calculator scale was invented in the first place


sorry, it appears that you didn't get oldgoat's joke about handicap scores in golf and my joke about handicap scores in skiing.....all with respect to ski binding settings, or maybe I didn't get your joke, if there was one.

post #37 of 39
Two things.

One release does not mean pre-mature. It can also just have been the right combination of loadings at the wrong time while not exceeding any one of them individually. This falls under s@&t happens.

The second, get them checked to ensure they meet spec., they won't be the first binding that don't always meet what's printed on them.
post #38 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

Two things.

One release does not mean pre-mature. It can also just have been the right combination of loadings at the wrong time while not exceeding any one of them individually. This falls under s@&t happens.

The second, get them checked to ensure they meet spec., they won't be the first binding that don't always meet what's printed on them.

Honestly, no shop in the Montreal area has a DIN checking machine. They probably have one in Stowe Vermont where product liability laws are stricter.

 

Yes, it could simply be that I powered out of the binding. And if that was the case, regardless of what any testing machine might indicate, unless the binding is truly defective, my coach would simply tell me to increase the DIN slightly until I no longer power out. He has also advised me in the past to lower the DIN if they fail to come off when they should have. That is his intuitive approach which I respect.

 

Coming back to the forward pressure adjustment question and whether it is trivial or critical for my particular brand of bindings. All I can say is that the installation manual refers to two versions of the heel, the non-demo version which lets you turn a Phillips head screw to perfectly position the heel on a rail for your unique BSL (fig 20)

 

 

and the demo type which has the exact same mechanism but with no screw head in order to discourage you from changing the calibration because one system position has to accommodate five different boot lengths (fig. 24).

 

 

 

When I found my 307 mm. boots falling on the borderline between two adjacent system positions, I decided to turn the calibration rod to make the binding behave as if I had the median size BSL.

 

After reading all the comments in this thread, I am convinced that even if my intervention has not actually made things better, it should not have made thing worse either. I simply eliminated the any doubt that could possibly be associated with being in a borderline situation.

 

I'm off to the World Masters next week which are coincidentally being held on the same mountain where my binding popped off in 2013. I'll post my experience when I get back. I'm sorry if I won't be able to participate in this thread until then.

 

Thanks again to all who chimed in.

post #39 of 39

Realize the OP has checked out, but just general comment about this and other threads that seek precision in gear:

 

If you think of the variance in binding release at any given DIN setting, the amount attributable to the binding forward pressure being a screw turn off is orders of magnitude less then the variance attributable to the biomechanics of the skier feeding forces into the binding and to the snow surface doing same from the other direction. For that matter, other attributes of the binding, such as the slop OP introduces with the demo tracks, and wear in the AFD etc probably add up to significantly more variance than being half way between a partial turn of the screw. And some binding models will be more sensitive to forward pressure than others. (Old Markers, anyone?) What it gets down to is that ski bindings are a mechanically simple and rather crude system with low variance linked to a number of ridiculously complex and causally sophisticated force systems with high variance. It's those other systems of force that "cause" the binding to release or not release, actually. Your binding's just at the tail end of the chain, doing its dim little job pretty much the same every time its design parameters are reached. If they're not reached, or are reached sooner than you want, blame yourself or the engineers. 

 

This is not to say that we shouldn't attempt to reduce as many sources of variance as we can. As my grandma said, "Every little bit helps." But the logical approach is to begin with the obvious, large sources of variance. 

 

The entire thread is rather like obsessing over whether the brake calipers on your old car are each producing exactly the same closing force. No they're not. Arguably, Jimmy Johnson could detect a very small difference in closing force on his NASCAR ride that you or I couldn't in our used and abused heaps. And mention it to his crew as he hurtles around the track at 200 mph. But tonight if you swerve to avoid another car, brake carefully, and still go into a snowy ditch, of all the causal variables, how important a contributor  is that one wheel having a half foot lb less braking force than the other?  

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