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Video for MA - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post



Counter has always been a weak point for me.

Believe me, it used to be more of a problem than it is now.  

post #32 of 40
Plateau in skills can be frustrating at times. Good luck with your on going quest for improvement.
post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
 

Thank You everyone for your time and the helpful responses.  I am going to directly comment on some points that have been brought up, then share my thoughts and my trainers thoughts on the skiing shown in the video clip.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post
 

TPJ,

 

You are controlling speed and direction with consistent rhythm and a round turn shape. You have a small christie (more in the right turns than the left) with some visible stepping (e.g. 11-12 seconds). The christie at the end of the turn looks like a speed check move. This leads to a lack of counter in the turn finish which is causing turns to be initiated with an up move. There's not a lot of skidding in these turns. The edge engagement is coming just above the fall line. We can see snow spray coming off the skis from between the tips and the toe piece above the fall line, while it comes off the tips later in the turn. It's good that you are working hard to stay out of the back seat. Maybe too hard. We can see over flexing of the ankles at the end of the turns (e.g. 12 seconds). Your skis don't stay in the fall line long. Your skis look like mid fats to me. Therefore you're not going to get as much benefit from the "modern" advice to turn the skis less and tip the skis more. Your technique (as your user name indicates) is better suited for powder skiing than the relatively firmer snow we see in these clips.

 

This is good reporting of what you see in these turns.  The bolded parts are what I like about the turns.  The lack of counter has been something I hear over and over again.  I can't feel it.  To me it feels like I am facing down the hill and the turns feel smooth and pretty effortless.  I ski nearly everyday and mostly all day.  I like easy turns when I can get away with it.

 

Starting at 25 seconds you pole touch with only your right pole for a few turns, then use only your left pole, then use a double pole swing, then no pole swing. While I'm not sure what the intent was for this clip, it does a good job of showing what you are not doing with your pole touch (bringing the hips across the skis).

 

This drill is one of the L3 assessment drills in my division.  Its purpose is to show versatility and highlight the movement, or lack of movement, of the hips across the skis and into the turns.  The double pole plant part gives me some trouble because of my lack of counter.  I find that I have trouble moving the outside (uphill) hand in the right direction.  We are looking for some strong projection of the CM into the turns with this double pole plant and while my hips are moving forward, they aren't really convincing enough.

 

In the exercise with lifting the outside ski I like how the tail is higher than the tip. This is similar to a White Pass drill, but the outside ski should be off the snow before the edge change starts. You are late here and using the lift move to help start inclining. You get on 

your new edge by inclining. I'd like to see you get on the new edge by moving the hip over the inside ski (sound familiar Mike?). Try doing cowboy turns.

 

This is supposed to be a WP turn.  I guess I didn't understand what the trainer wanted from this.  I was exaggerating the lifting of the ski and leaving the tip down on purpose.  What we want here is less lifting and a ski that is level with the surface.  I agree with you that I should also lift the ski sooner to eliminate the appearance that I am cheating the inside ski release.  Again we see that I could benefit from moving the hips straight through the turn rather than up and over.

 

There's nothing wrong with this skiing. To get to the next level of performance I recommend working on developing a turn finish with more counter and then learning to initiate the transition from the core moving across the skis via more new inside leg flexion. Learn these moves in GS sized turns before trying them in turns of this short a radius. Recommended drills are what I call Flamingo turns (lifting the heel and tipping the tip of the new inside ski) is a good starter drill and bamboo over the shoulder (if healthy) without poles (avoid letting the bamboo point more down the fall line then across the trail while keeping the bamboo parallel to the snow surface at all times). The objective here is to get edge engagement earlier in the turn and replace the christie speed check at the end with more turn shape induced speed control.

 

Counter has been a problem for me for a long time and a point of consistent feedback from multiple trainers.  I had been focussing on the ILF and getting my inside ski tipping more actively from the release.  This trainer had a big focus for the group on early weight transfer to the new outside ski and OLE.  To me this feels like it can promote a push off move which I have been accused of in the past.  I generally at least try to do what the trainer asks and see If I can benefit from it, otherwise I probably shouldn't even bother training.

 

or just

 

Tip the skis more and turn the skis less!

 

Thanks TPJ. I faced a lot of the same issues when I started my quest for L3. There are dozens of drills that can help get your COM on a better line through the transition. Finding the one(S!) that will work for you is the art form. The basic concept is simple enough, the lower body turns more than the upper body from the fall line through the finish of the old turn. during the transition phase the hips come across the skis moving forward along the direction that they are pointed (to a point that is the inside of the new turn). It's the same move we should be doing in wedge turns and wedge christies. It took me 5 years to take my white pass turns from an ugly drill to "normal" skiing. If I can do it, anyone can. One clue for WP turns that really help me was that the lifted leg had to flex and extend as if it was still on snow. Another intermediate drill that helped me get WP turns was called "tracer turns" where you split your weight 80/20 or 90/10. Just let one foot barely touch the snow all the time whether it is on the inside of the turn or the outside. This gets you doing WP turns every other turn. But in my opinion, the WP and pole swing drills are not the best ones to learn the hip movement that you need. See if your trainer has some alternates to try out.

post #34 of 40

Here's what I'd like to know, what was your trainer's plan for addressing what you see in the video?

post #35 of 40
Here'd be my answer... (you didn't ask, but I had very similar issues) .. No one in the end could really 'fix' me. I fixed myself., but believe me, people tried to help, so I certainly can't blame my trainers, etc... I had to get my pelvis sorted out. I went off res a bit to figure out what drills I could do or invent that would help me understand what I needed to do, and watched a ton of vid of skiers I admire that didn't have my problem. In the end, trainers can't fix everything. It takes really hard and concerted work to write new movement patterns. The old doesn't go away, but new 'code' if you will has to be generated. It took three seasons. The first to really understand the what and why of what I wasn't doing, the second, getting it sorted, but not being consistent, and the third, finally and consistently dialing in the new movement pattern. In the end, for a lot of us with vestigial habits, there's just a painful period of 're-booting' our skiing. It's even harder when the old is generally pretty darn effective.
post #36 of 40
Quote:
 No one in the end could really 'fix' me. I fixed myself
In the end, trainers can't fix everything. It takes really hard and concerted work to write new movement patterns.

 

This is the best thing I have ever read on this forum.  Ultimately it is up to you to change your movement patterns, and it doesn't come easy.  There is no substitute for hard work and determination, nor are there any shortcuts to developing yourself as a skier. 

post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by loki1 View Post
 
Quote:
 No one in the end could really 'fix' me. I fixed myself
In the end, trainers can't fix everything. It takes really hard and concerted work to write new movement patterns.

 

This is the best thing I have ever read on this forum.  Ultimately it is up to you to change your movement patterns, and it doesn't come easy.  There is no substitute for hard work and determination, nor are there any shortcuts to developing yourself as a skier. 

Originally Posted by slider View Post

Stagnation is the downfall of many long time skiers. If you really want to go to the next level, your going to have to step up to it.

Just say'n.

post #38 of 40
 
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Thank You everyone for your time and the helpful responses.  I am going to directly comment on some points that have been brought up, then share my thoughts and my trainers thoughts on the skiing shown in the video clip.

 

The lack of counter has been something I hear over and over again.  I can't feel it.  To me it feels like I am facing down the hill and the turns feel smooth and pretty effortless.  

Separation between the upper and lower halves has always been a weakness in my skiing.  

 

We are looking for some strong projection of the CM into the turns with this double pole plant and while my hips are moving forward, they aren't really convincing enough.

Again we see that I could benefit from moving the hips straight through the turn rather than up and over.

 

This trainer had a big focus for the group on early weight transfer to the new outside ski and OLE.  To me this feels like it can promote a push off move which I have been accused of in the past. 

 

 

This trainer also was pushing a wider stance.  I don't need the wider stance for lateral stability, but the comment was that widening the stance would facilitate shortening the inside leg and developing higher edge angles.  The trainers advice to widen my stance is only to help promote vertical separation and inside leg tipping.  No one I know is advocating a truly wide stance.  I mentioned above that I am shredding my left pant leg.  I could get at least wide enough that I stop doing that.

 

The fact that I have a system that works very well for me makes it harder for me to change, even though I intellectually believe that the change will benefit me in the long run.  I struggle when people tell me why I'm doing something wrong after I have to wait for them after skiing something hard or in funky snow.

TPJ, I've pulled out a few of your responses to comments by TheRusty, epic, morkojp, borntoski, and HeluvaSkier.

Your words pinpoint four things that the trainers would like to see.

 

--ski into counter more than you do now with bolder upper body/lower body separation,  

--move the CM though the turns rather than up and over,

--widen your stance so you can get more vertical separation, higher edge angles, and to facilitate inside leg tipping,

--and transfer weight to the new outside ski earlier.

 

I'm sure you could embed these things in your skiing if you were convinced they were worth working on.  

But clearly your skiing and teaching are working very well just as they are.  Your advice on this forum is always stellar.

 

Did the trainers offer convincing explanations of how each of these things would strengthen your skiing and/or teaching?

Do you have strong reasons to work on any of these, or clear reasons not to?    

post #39 of 40

Hi, did not read any other responce to be unbiassed. To me your skiing looks very solid and nice. Good rhythm and very nice gradual edge engagement during the turn. Also, good stance and nice pole plant.

 

What I would like to see a little more of would be upper / lower body separation and upper body counter and hip angulation. Now you are pretty much turning as one complete unit staying quite square to your skis. This lends itself to "hip rotation" causing outside ski to loose grip and skid. You can see this clearly early on in the video when turning left. Also, work a bit more with your legs. Now you are pretty much sust standing there and vaulting over. In steep terrain you should deffinetly work more towards retraction transitions.

 

The one ski segment was truly amazing. Congrats.

 

All in all, great skiing.

post #40 of 40
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