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some troubles grabbing an edge at start of turn. (first time on new shaped skis) - Page 4

post #91 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

That's why I think it's better to start with a shape ski in the mid 70's max. Lower is better. Slalom ski with someone with your background makes a good choice.

As for technique he's already slamming his boots. I think you got enough for now @rollin.


Yes I would agree "Tog" there is only so much one can digest at once without spoiling the mind. Last thing we (or I) want here is a brain freeze while applying things on the slopes.  But to be honest it seems quite a bit of these pointers are often being repeated for similar things but just in different ways of saying it so its not throwing me into a brain freeze yet lol .  But its certainly plenty enough at this point.

post #92 of 108

Sounds to me like he is using pivoting/rotary/ feet twisting  movements and just not tipping the skis up on edge. 

 

But  with no vid or still shots or something, All of this thread  is a shot in the dark. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love  my narrow race skis, but an 81mm ski is not going to be difficult to get up on edge, unless you are not tipping it up on edge.

 

All sorts of technique issues could be at play here. After seeing the ski, with minimal rocker (and that wouldn't even matter) if you get the ski up on edge!

post #93 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

Sounds to me like he is using pivoting/rotary/ feet twisting  movements and just not tipping the skis up on edge. 

 

But  with no vid or still shots or something, All of this thread  is a shot in the dark. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love  my narrow race skis, but an 81mm ski is not going to be difficult to get up on edge, unless you are not tipping it up on edge.

 

All sorts of technique issues could be at play here. After seeing the ski, with minimal rocker (and that wouldn't even matter) if you get the ski up on edge!

to be honest most of the thread has not been a shot in the dark at all. True that no one here has a vid of me skiing. But my issue imo is very much on par with what most have mentioned for what seems to be the most common mistakes made by skiers who come from straights. Just the explanations for what I should no longer do and the things I must now do are a perfect diagnosis even without video. It almost feels like I am being viewed to a tee. Pretty amazing to me but its the things most know about skiing straight skis in general that are hitting the nails on the head for what I been doing and of course must now change. Its really been great even without vid.

post #94 of 108
Thread Starter 

well fwiw, I do have plans to try to get in a ski day this Saturday. If the plans stick I'll see how things go and of course follow up here. Suppose to be in the 20's so that should make for some normal eastern hardpack and probably some icy as well. I just hope not too icy as that could prove to be somewhat detrimental while working on a newer technique.

post #95 of 108
Thread Starter 

OK all,

I finally got in a ski day today. Here's how it went. The conditions were good. A touch on the "wet" side. Not real slushy at all but a tad heavy which is a blessing when compared to the east coast ice we can often get. Over all very happy with the conditions. 

 

Firstly the mountain was jam packed and it also doesn't have the widest trails so practicing some helpful tips was not really so easily done without constant interference or space. Spent the first couple runs on long green trails just to easily work on some the things mentioned. Taking the advice from all you and from Rusty's article I began to play with some the newer technique and worked on making RR tracks. All be it at bunny hill speeds but if that what it takes its what I'll do lol. But it did help me develop a better feel for the technique and for the skis.

 

Then I took it to the Blue runs. Kept it at slower speeds and sometimes a bit  faster but continued to work on the same stuff for several runs. Was much better (than last time) at feeling where to balance the weight and how to turn the skis on edge not with just my forced foot work and knees (of my old ways) but with more of a whole body tilt.   I just sort of starting falling forward and into the next turn and than there it was, I can certainly feel the G-forces and the more I fell the more they turned. Nothing was always perfect but I was feeling good and like I made some real good stride towards doing the things better suited for the skis vs before. 

 

Spent the rest the morning with this all.. Broke for lunch and back up for the afternoon.

 

I now took it to blacks. Keep in mind these blacks here are not really blacks.  At best I'd call them double blue for some parts. But none the less was perfect for further practicing on steeper terrain. They were actually perfectly steep enough to get a good feel for what I was doing or trying to do.  I developed a pretty good feel for a lot. Certainly have work to do yet but far much better than last time which of course prompted this thread lol.  I made several runs down those blacks until quitting time experimenting with varying speeds and varying turn shapes all why trying to keep applying the basics from earlier.  There was many times in general some good feelings or should i say sensations where the balance, body position, forces, and all just felt right. You know those feelings you get when things make sense. Certainly not all the time and not for very long periods of but a good enough portions of it.   Over all I am very happy with the advancements or changes I made today. I am at least skiing again.

 

There are some things to still work on.

Mainly its as I get much  faster and quicker turning my old muscle memory does want to automatically try to sneak back in. There are still those  second nature habits of mine that want in on the fun lol.   I would just sometimes go from successfully sort of"falling and rolling" the skis the newer way to trying to work them like the old way instead with a lot of knee and body torqueing etc.  When it happened  I tried to slow down and immediately apply the newer ways again and then continue. Sometimes it worked well and sometimes I had to stop and start again. The old technique also messes with timing too. Well I shouldn't say "too" because its probably all part of it. But as the afternoon wore on I had a little more and more of the new and a little less and less of the old. That's imo good progress for one day.

 

Another thing in addition to the above and probably part of it that as well was the ski weighting. Trying not to be so outside ski dominant as I use to be. It sometimes tricky to get the weight on each ski at a different ratio than what i'm use to. This occasionally would cause some control issues even at the slow speeds. Didn't happen very often but would pop up now and again.

 

Over all I am very happy with the advancement in technique changes I made today. I certainly had my fair share of experiencing some darn good and correct feelings.The transition is well under way. I hope all I've explained is worded well enough t make good sense of.  I am suppose to be skiing next weekend for 2 days and if that holds up I am hopeful to keep on progressing with it.

 

Much thanks to all again for the help thus far.

Any comments, advice, responses of any kind are welcome.

post #96 of 108
Sounds like a good day, rollin! About reverting to old ways: some people try to get rid of bad habits, but for me it's more useful to think of replacing them with functional movements. Just pay attention, notice when I'm doing something silly, and simply start to do the better move.

While it's fun to see how the new technique changes how you ski on steeper terrain, remember that it's not yet in your body/unconscious; that's why you reverted to old ways on the steeper terrain instead of sticking with what you know works better. So be sure to regularly spend time on those green runs letting your body experience good controlled form at slower speeds. If you don't do that, you'll have trouble progressing on steeper terrain. It really is true that you have to be able to perform a technique well at slower speeds to really make things happen on more challenging runs.

Again, I'm not an instructor, just another learner.
post #97 of 108
Thread Starter 

Litter"

your post is accurate and consistent with my views.

 

Its not like I am all of a sudden a totally new version of my former self ability wise but it was a pretty good start.

post #98 of 108
It took me a solid 16 focused hours over about 5 days to make the transition. Once you make it yahoo.gif

Just hang in there it only gets better.

Cheers and have fun.
post #99 of 108
Thread Starter 

You know, as I have searched for some more different videos and/or written materials there are a number of things I been collectively concluding.

 

There is certainly a lot of consistency with many of the basics being said and of course been working much better as posted but I am also realizing there are some variances from the basics to be made in certain given skiing scenarios.

Those being when wanting to turn quicker and/or when on steeps.

 

One of the changes I been working on vs old technique is the way we now allow the shoulders to turn with the skies but this apparently is not always. It seems quicker turning still requires some of the older upper body separation. Perhaps not as much torqueing but still some. Perhaps with the newer balance points but still an upper that is square to downhill and also similar when skiing steep.

And while on the steep along with quick turns it also seems skidding wouldn't be so wrong at least for portion of the turns.

I been working hard at the new technique and still will continue a lot but now realizing for some harder driving on steeps and with quick turns "some" version of the old stuff sort of still applies except for different "ski" balance point along with a bit different leg position.

post #100 of 108
Thread Starter 

Ok all, so I got another ski day today with really nice conditions. The improvements towards this transition was very significant today. The carving is a blast of which I never expected. Its like wow!  One thing for certain is that I could have skied for hours on end and was not real tired.

Anyway, Tomorrow we head out again, have to head out for dinner now. I will fill in many more details about it all once the weekend passes.

post #101 of 108
That's a good sign if it feels like it's not a lot of work. When you feel the work you'll really be moving in a fast arc.
post #102 of 108
See told you:)
post #103 of 108
Thread Starter 

Wow!, wow!, wow!,

Another day today.

single digits temps and wind gusts over 40mph so it was a day where no  bare skin could be left uncovered. But the good news the mountain was empty and conditions (snowed 3 to 4 inches last night) were awesome.

 

The skiing has really come alive for me yesterday and especially today. Spent most the day carving and varying turn shapes on blacks and double blacks. Although probably  more  like double blues and blacks in some other places. But I have fell into the new balance points and technique really very well now. Made a lot of runs today with no lift lines at all. The new skis just make a lot of sense to me now that I am using them correctly. Very confident at faster speeds and on the steeps making both long, medium, and short turns. I am so happy skiing really well again. Different of course (vs my old ways) but very well. I just want to keep going. I worked hard today on the steeps, drove hard and got the legs burning pretty good at times. But it was really so wonderful. What I have been missing on my old straights? Just wow!

 

The feedback is amazing. The skis have really spoken to me and telling me (in sync with much of your advice) where to place what and when. Through this experience they have told me where they are happy and now that I am in the right positions when I tell them what to do, they just respond and do it. Its really amazing! I never experienced anything like this on my old skis and I've done some really good skiing. It was just always muscle my way through everything. And now I still have to do work but its just so very different for the better. I know I'm talking like a new kid who never skied before but its just that amazing to me how great I'm feeling right now and also how well this transition has really taken shape for me so far. I did not think I would be driving them hard at all yet but I am now driving and it feels really good.

 

As for the (x-power) skis themselves. Not that I have anything else to truly compare them against but they are amazing to me. They are actually more playful when driving harder than they are at slower speeds. I mean they cruise nicely at slower and moderate speeds too but now that I am skiing them more correctly, when driving harder they really come to life and just ask for me to scold them. And very damp under foot at any speed and no issue at all holding edge.  And at 6'1" -240 I demand some good edge hold and the  G-force is amazing. They just do it and they do it well.

 

Back to my transition. What can I say? I'm not the expert of the mountain and never claimed I was. But for what I do and how I ski its really just been so wonderful now that I have come into my own again with my new skis. Its like a rebirth lol.  That first weekend on the new skis where I had no real information or education at all was like a real bummer. But now after a lot of help and advice (which is education) from you all and other reading its been just a great transition. Luckily between this weekend(2days) and the 1 day last week I was able to fall into this very well thus far. The only thing I haven't done yet is hit some bump runs. But to be honest I would only do a couple/few per ski day anyway. Was something I did a lot more of when I was a teen and 20's and 30's but only a few as I aged and also skied less.  So I didn't want to ruin all the great advancements by adding a whole other thing to it all. I'll get to it eventually. I'm just much too happy for now with continuing on with advancing this new technique where at times I am very much enjoying riding my skies and at other times now very much enjoying driving them. 

 

I have a lift ticket to a local mountain which I will use hopefully in the next week or two. After that who knows? Hopefully I will get out again but nowadays its only been a few ski days per season. It is what it is. Thanks all for the help and advice. Of course all and any further advice, opinions, or just conversation is more than welcome to continue.  

post #104 of 108

Glad thing are working for you Rollin. Keep em rolling.

post #105 of 108
Thread Starter 

Fwiw there was one downside today. Your gonna laugh at this one bone headed thing I did.

At one point I was (on the skis) standing on some real hard snow waiting for my brother. Well, I had to get into my pockets for some tissue so I proceeded to stab my poles into the hard snow so they would stand and to free up my hands to deal with my pockets.

 

Like an idiot I stab my left pole right smack into the edge of my ski and takes a chunk. Oh boy was I pissed at myself. It didn't quite get through the topsheet but right on the edge top sidewall corner and darn close to getting through. New friggin skis of course. What a bummer. I'll have to epoxy the area to keep moisture out just to be sure. Its not a real large thing but its too deep for my liking. What an idiot I am lol.

At one point yesterday someone (a little kid) ran me over and right across my skis and it didn't do nothing . Yet here I go and stab my ski and take a chunk like an idiot. Go figure

post #106 of 108

Now for the warning,  read up on phantom foot and ACL.  You don't want to catch the inside rear edge in the wrong position, if you do and just begin to feel it go limp, take the crash, save the ACL.  Don't power out of it like you used to on straights. It happened to me at about this time on the new skis.

 

Other than that it just going to keep getting better and better.

 

Cheers,

post #107 of 108
@rollin, I love seeing posts like yours. It sounds like you had what amounts to a religious experience around here. Congratulations on your rebirth as a 21st century skier!
post #108 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

Now for the warning,  read up on phantom foot and ACL.  You don't want to catch the inside rear edge in the wrong position, if you do and just begin to feel it go limp, take the crash, save the ACL.  Don't power out of it like you used to on straights. It happened to me at about this time on the new skis.

 

Other than that it just going to keep getting better and better.

 

Cheers,

Not something I thought about but I did have a look into it.

 

Fwiw not just to you but anyone here.

I did fall twice but not backwards, more forwards and sideways.

 Than there was a 3rd and 4th time that I almost but the issue wasn't enough to cause me to fall however during those (non falls) I did manage to see what it was that caused the two falls I did make. For some reason on these occasions I barely lost the outside ski where it wanted to turn less than my uphil ski or basically head straighter than my uphill ski. To be honest, it only happened at a slower medium speed and not at higher speed. All happened on day one and very early on day 2. Anyway, I don't really know for certain but I come up with some possibilities or a combo of them.

 

Remember, putting some weight on the inside ski is still fairly new to me and although am getting very use to it I am also sometimes thinking about it. And at the slower/medium speed is where I do more thinking vs faster speeds so its possible at those times I (over thought) over did it and unweighted the outside ski too much and/or didn't have it rolled on egde as much as the inside ski. This then caused the outside ski to want to split away from the carve a little.  Another reason I can think of is that (as you know) the balance point (or driving point) is more centered and not quite as front oriented. So here also perhaps (at the slower/mid speed) was some over thinking or over doing again which caused me to get just a tad "too far" back on that outside ski and of course unweighted the front just enough to cause it to track on its own with no true influence from me. 

 

So either one or a combo of those reasons is what I came up with after the two (non falls) because I was able to see it and feel it. After that point I stayed just a tad more front and a tad more outside and it never happened again. And the rest of that second day (most of it) I spent on those (as mentioned) steeps without any issue of this at all. But again there is also less time to think on steeps where its more just being in sync and feeling the forces match what your doing so there was no time for overthinking. It was just doing. And again it was great. I did really well. Was very confident. I can do that here right? be proud of my performance? Heck, I opened this thread admitting being lost so I guess I can admit being proud. I cant wait to hit slopes again and further work towards perfecting this new adventure. lol

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