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How often should I touch my base edges?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hey guys,

 

Just did my first tune with (what I think are great results).

 

Got me thinking about the base edges. Basically I filed until the file wasn't cutting anymore (at 0.7 degrees) and then some passes with diamond stones (medium then fine).

 

I had previously read that most of you suggest minimal tuning on the base edges, and I understand that I am not supposed to file every time, but should I be going over them with a combination of diamond stones (in the base angle guide of course) or totally leave them alone?

post #2 of 26
Leave them alone unless there are dings or burrs.
post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Leave them alone unless there are substantial dings or burrs.  And even then,  do all your maintenance  on the side edge.  Don't touch the base edges unless absolutely necessary.  Generally speaking you do more harm than good. Working the side-edge only,  works fine 99.9% of the time!

FIFY! :D

post #4 of 26
End of thread, well answered IMO. Go skiing!
post #5 of 26

Umm, don't you think it's always a good idea to run some type of a hard stone, whether it be a surgical or ceramic, along the base edge to knock off any burr/s that could be there.  I run a hard Arkansas stone, using light pressure, along the base edge frequently.  I always do before AND after I tune side edges and if I'm only waxing, and I hardly ever ONLY wax, I run a hard stone along the base edge then too.  I never use a file on base edges after I have them set but I use hard stones on them often.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstood and the OP was only asking about using files on the base edge after they are set but if the OP is asking about touching the base edge with anything ever, the previous responses could be slightly misleading.

 

So, using hard stones or a ceramic, especially the white side, on your base edge equals OK.  Files, diamond stones etc. equals not no but h3ll NO! :D 

post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 

Yup, I was asking whether to hit them with stones as well or just leave them totally alone.

 

I only have a gumi stone apart from diamonds and files, should i be looking to purchase another kind of stone?

post #7 of 26

The only time you should use a diamond stone or file in a base angle guide is to knock off any high spot that may damage your wax iron.

 

Then only do that after you've made sure the base is flat.

 

Do not use any pressure on the guide, just push it down the base.

post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post

The only time you should use a diamond stone or file in a base angle guide is to knock off any high spot that may damage your wax iron.

Then only do that after you've made sure the base is flat.

Do not use any pressure on the guide, just push it down the base.
I hope that you don't mean people should leave the hanging burr, because I (like everyone else) am not leaving a hanging burr on my base edge. I use a fine (600) diamond file in my base bevel guide after I file or sharpen the side edge, with very light pressure, briefly, just until the rough sound goes away, which is how I know the hanging burr is gone. Maybe a ceramic stone would take the burr off, but I don't have one, and my Arkansas stone isn't the right tool for the job.
post #9 of 26

Sorry I guess I should have been more clear.....Of course you knock the hanging burr off with a hard stone after working on the side edges. 

 

I was refrering to NO SHARPENING OR DIAMOND STONING THE BASE EDGE AFTER INITIAL SET  AND POLISH!

'

You can alsways use a non cutting stone, just a polishing stone or stone hard enough to knock off the hanging burr!

post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Is a gumi stone a good choice for knocking off the hanging burr?

post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak View Post
 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Is a gumi stone a good choice for knocking off the hanging burr?

The Swix blue gummi is pretty hard and would probably do it if thats all you have but I'm guessing you don't that one and more than likely you just have the silver one which is pretty soft and I'd be concerned you'd dull the edge by the time that soft gummi finally took care of the burr..  I usually use a ceramic or hard stone to take care of that hanging burr, then the Swix blue gummi  lightly down the edge.  If you don't already have one, get yourself a double sided ceramic stone.  You'll use it often and they never wear out.  BUT, they're hard as h3ll so be careful not to drop it on a hard surface floor or you'll have more than a double sided stone.

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post



I hope that you don't mean people should leave the hanging burr, because I (like everyone else) am not leaving a hanging burr on my base edge. I use a fine (600) diamond file in my base bevel guide after I file or sharpen the side edge, with very light pressure, briefly, just until the rough sound goes away, which is how I know the hanging burr is gone. Maybe a ceramic stone would take the burr off, but I don't have one, and my Arkansas stone isn't the right tool for the job.

 



I must be doing something wrong, I don't get this "hanging burr" people are talking about.

Even after using a short piece of panzar file followed by a diamond stone. I only need to use the panzar file may be two times down the edge after making sure the base is fairly flat before waxing.

I don't use a file everytime I touch up the edge every ski day.

Even after taking new skis from the factory tune to 3* edge, I can't feel the hanging burr.

Been doing my own tuning for 14+ years.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post



I hope that you don't mean people should leave the hanging burr, because I (like everyone else) am not leaving a hanging burr on my base edge. I use a fine (600) diamond file in my base bevel guide after I file or sharpen the side edge, with very light pressure, briefly, just until the rough sound goes away, which is how I know the hanging burr is gone. Maybe a ceramic stone would take the burr off, but I don't have one, and my Arkansas stone isn't the right tool for the job.

 



I must be doing something wrong, I don't get this "hanging burr" people are talking about.

Even after using a short piece of panzar file followed by a diamond stone. I only need to use the panzar file may be two times down the edge after making sure the base is fairly flat before waxing.

I don't use a file everytime I touch up the edge every ski day.

Even after taking new skis from the factory tune to 3* edge, I can't feel the hanging burr.

Been doing my own tuning for 14+ years. 

I wouldn't say you're doing anything wrong but I will say, with near certainty, it's there.  You can't do much work on the side edge without creating it.  Often, what people mistakenly think is a uber sharp edge, is really just a hanging burr.

post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babak View Post
 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Is a gumi stone a good choice for knocking off the hanging burr?

NO!!!

 

Problem is even a Hard blue gummi is too soft and will creep over the edge point when you are using medium pressure to remove the hanging burr risking dulling your just sharpened edge!

 

You need a hard stone that you can lay flat against the base edge to remove the hanging burr. 

 

Ski side edge up bases away from you. place the stone falt against the base edge with about 1/3 of the stone above the side edge 2/3 below. Use you thumb as a guide on the side wall and with medium pressure run the stone flat against the base edge a couple of passes until it gets quiet. 

 

I then use a HARD blue gummi, with ABSOLUTELY NO PRESSURE at a 45 degree angle down the edge point once or twice. You will have a ery smooth clean burr free edge!

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post



I hope that you don't mean people should leave the hanging burr, because I (like everyone else) am not leaving a hanging burr on my base edge. I use a fine (600) diamond file in my base bevel guide after I file or sharpen the side edge, with very light pressure, briefly, just until the rough sound goes away, which is how I know the hanging burr is gone. Maybe a ceramic stone would take the burr off, but I don't have one, and my Arkansas stone isn't the right tool for the job.

 



I must be doing something wrong, I don't get this "hanging burr" people are talking about.

Even after using a short piece of panzar file followed by a diamond stone. I only need to use the panzar file may be two times down the edge after making sure the base is fairly flat before waxing.

I don't use a file everytime I touch up the edge every ski day.

Even after taking new skis from the factory tune to 3* edge, I can't feel the hanging burr.

Been doing my own tuning for 14+ years.

You can't sharpen the side edge without creating a hanging burr. It's part of the process. maybe you like your skis to be difficult to get on & off edge and totally unpredictable!:D 

post #16 of 26

The dreaded "hanging" burr!  Maybe not too big of a deal?

 

This type is bad for sure though.

post #17 of 26

Then I must be doing something wrong. My skis are sharp and easy to get on edge. May be I'm not taking off enough material to get a hanging burr. 

 

Atomicman,  I just use the 200 then 400 grit per your recommendation, where I used to use a 100 grit moonflex. If I have to file the edge I normally follow that by sliding the 1* file down to base to knock off any high spot.

 

I don't use a gummi stone.

post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 

Then I must be doing something wrong. My skis are sharp and easy to get on edge. May be I'm not taking off enough material to get a hanging burr. 

 

Atomicman,  I just use the 200 then 400 grit per your recommendation, where I used to use a 100 grit moonflex. If I have to file the edge I normally follow that by sliding the 1* file down to base to knock off any high spot.

 

I don't use a gummi stone.


What could be wrong if your happy!

post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


What could be wrong if your happy!

Oh, I'm just stirring the pot...:)

 

Just cut the sidewall back on the GF's new Kenja's. took them to 1 and 3. I could feel a small hanging burr but that was gone after I took a short swiss file in the 1* base guide, just slide it down the base edge twice. then ran my figure over it and it felt good.

post #20 of 26
I'm going to do a sierra traverse on skis, abut 7 days.

No doubt I will find some rocks on the way.

Given that I'm trying to carry a minimum of weight, what should I use to touch my edges?

Mostly spring snow conditions, firm in the morning.
post #21 of 26
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


What could be wrong if your happy!

Oh, I'm just stirring the pot...:)

 

Just cut the sidewall back on the GF's new Kenja's. took them to 1 and 3. I could feel a small hanging burr but that was gone after I took a short swiss file in the 1* base guide, just slide it down the base edge twice. then ran my figure over it and it felt good.


If it feels good DO IT!

post #23 of 26
[/quote].  BUT, they're hard as h3ll so be careful not to drop it on a hard surface floor or you'll have more than a double sided stone.
[/quote]

biggrin.gif:D
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

NO!!!

 

Problem is even a Hard blue gummi is too soft and will creep over the edge point when you are using medium pressure to remove the hanging burr risking dulling your just sharpened edge!

 

You need a hard stone that you can lay flat against the base edge to remove the hanging burr. 

 

Ski side edge up bases away from you. place the stone falt against the base edge with about 1/3 of the stone above the side edge 2/3 below. Use you thumb as a guide on the side wall and with medium pressure run the stone flat against the base edge a couple of passes until it gets quiet. 

 

I then use a HARD blue gummi, with ABSOLUTELY NO PRESSURE at a 45 degree angle down the edge point once or twice. You will have a ery smooth clean burr free edge!

 

Why not use a bevel guide with the hard stone to remove the hanging burr? Is there any chance that by freehanding it I'll unwittingly remove the burr unevenly and not realize it? 

 

And doing two passes tip to tail with the hard blue gummi, how does that differ from say using a gummi stone to detune to the tips?

post #25 of 26
The blue gummi is to remove a possible micro burr coming out diagonally from the edge junctions as I understand it. I use a bevel guide and the Arkansas stone for the hanging burr created when you do the side bevel. Now, sometimes that bevel guide could in fact prevent you from reaching the whole hanging burr back to the actual side/base edge junction, because of a hair's worth of over bevel, in which case you'll have to free hand it lightly. You can hear it and feel it with the stone. And it's amazing the impact of that thing in certain snow conditions.

Detuning is flattening or rounding that edge where the sides meet. You don't want to do that. You just want any extensions from that to be removed. I think it's @SkiMangoJazz who has a loupe to look at this stuff. I might have to get one...
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

The dreaded "hanging" burr!  Maybe not too big of a deal?

 

This type is bad for sure though.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by borpborp View Post
 

 

Why not use a bevel guide with the hard stone to remove the hanging burr? Is there any chance that by freehanding it I'll unwittingly remove the burr unevenly and not realize it? 

 

And doing two passes tip to tail with the hard blue gummi, how does that differ from say using a gummi stone to detune to the tips?

No need to use a bevel guide. It is that easy to just contact the edge with the stone as long as you put your ski in the vise side edge up bases away from you and have about 1/3 of the stone above the base edge. you are not cutting or even polishing you are just running the stone flat against the base edge.. It is really very easy! 

 

As sibhusky says you are not detuning , the xtra hard gumi just removes any remaining microburr and makes fro a very very smooth clean edge. NO PRESSURE on the GUMMI!

 

You are overthinking and overworrying about your perfect 1 degree. It will be fine Just do it!

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