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Can anyone help me with my A-Frame...along with other things - Page 3

post #61 of 75
Big radius turns help me work on vertical separation among other movements.
post #62 of 75
Thread Starter 

I've always found long radius turns to be much easier.  Everything is happening at a reasonable pace.  When you shorten things up everything has to happen much faster, and that's when things start to fall apart.  

post #63 of 75
Thread Starter 

While taking a bump clinic this week, I came up with a few thoughts that seem to tie into the issues I'm struggling with.  I had an epiphany regarding turning from the ground up.  I realized that I lead with my hips way too much.  I am now aware of the sensations I'm looking for when tipping with my ankles and knees first.  I was making progress in this area, but wasn't quite there until my instructor called me out on it.  I think I get that part now.  

 

The area where I think I'm struggling, both on groomers, and in the bumps is getting my hips forward at the start of the turn.  I fought with back seat skiing for a long time, and I've gotten much better overall, but I feel like I have hit a brick wall.  In order toget my CoM in front of my feet, I feel like I'm straining to get there.  Its not like I just need to shift my balance, I feel like I'm maxing out my range of motion.  If I pressure the front of my boots, I'm usually not quite there, so I have to really force into them to get there.  This has me wondering if I might be dealing with a forward lean issue.  In other words, if the front of my boots weren't in the way, I might be able to get my hips forward by applying moderate pressure to the front of my boots rather than excessive pressure.   

 

The boots I'm skiing in are Head Raptor 130s, which I think have pretty significant forward lean.  How likely is it that my boots could be part of my problem here?  Could it be a boot flex issue?  

 

I'm not looking to put the blame on my equipment, but if my equipment is making it difficult to get my body where it needs to be, I want to address it sooner than later.

post #64 of 75

TreeFiter,

There are two "forwards."  

 

Consider the end of a turn, when your skis are pointing somewhat towards the trees at the side of the trail.

One concept of "forward" has your CoM move (or stay) over the fronts of your skis, over or beyond your toe pieces of your bindings.

The other concept of "forward" has your CoM move down the hill over your skis, sideways.  Skis point left, you move your upper body and hips downhill over them, and skis keep pointing and moving left.  

 

A blend of these two has your CoM moving on a diagonal path, partly forward over the ski tips, and partly down the hill to your side.

Some call this "foragonal."

 

The forward lean in your boots limits the first one (moving over the tips) unless you can flex those boots, which I suspect is not happening in the bumps.  

But forward lean doesn't limit how sideways or foragonally you can move when the skis are pointing more or less across the fall line.  

 

When you move your hips sideways or foragonally downhill, that movement tips your legs downhill, and your legs tip your boots, and your boots tip your skis.  This works on groomers as well as bumps.

 

There is a psychological blockage to doing the foragonal/sideways movement of the hips/upper body over the skis.  The reptilian mind says no.

In the bumps, stand on the top of a bump.  Work on moving your hips S.L.O.W.L.Y downhill, foragonally, as you turn to go down and around that bump.  Move into the trough below as slowly as you can.  Turn your inside ski uphill to complete the turn, and come to a complete stop on the next bump's uphill face.  Repeat.  This might break the psychological blockage, if it's there.

post #65 of 75

TreeFiter. Instead of raising the bridge, try lowering the river.   Try bringing your inside boot back underneath you.  Just a thought. 

post #66 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

TreeFiter,

There are two "forwards."  

 

Consider the end of a turn, when your skis are pointing somewhat towards the trees at the side of the trail.

One concept of "forward" has your CoM move (or stay) over the fronts of your skis, over or beyond your toe pieces of your bindings.

The other concept of "forward" has your CoM move down the hill over your skis, sideways.  Skis point left, you move your upper body and hips downhill over them, and skis keep pointing and moving left.  

 

A blend of these two has your CoM moving on a diagonal path, partly forward over the ski tips, and partly down the hill to your side.

Some call this "foragonal."

 

The forward lean in your boots limits the first one (moving over the tips) unless you can flex those boots, which I suspect is not happening in the bumps.  

But forward lean doesn't limit how sideways or foragonally you can move when the skis are pointing more or less across the fall line.  

 

When you move your hips sideways or foragonally downhill, that movement tips your legs downhill, and your legs tip your boots, and your boots tip your skis.  This works on groomers as well as bumps.

 

There is a psychological blockage to doing the foragonal/sideways movement of the hips/upper body over the skis.  The reptilian mind says no.

In the bumps, stand on the top of a bump.  Work on moving your hips S.L.O.W.L.Y downhill, foragonally, as you turn to go down and around that bump.  Move into the trough below as slowly as you can.  Turn your inside ski uphill to complete the turn, and come to a complete stop on the next bump's uphill face.  Repeat.  This might break the psychological blockage, if it's there.

I think you are spot on with what you are saying here, but I'm not sure it is what I'm experiencing.  I'll elaborate a little bit more.  Thank you for pointing out the multiple meanings of "forward".  In my head, I know what I mean, but sometimes I forget that nobody else has the contest of what is going on up there.  

 

What I'm talking about is the notion of pulling the feet back so that the hips are ahead of the feet.  Since there are multiple directions that all can be considered forward, I'll say this move will put your shins against the front corners of your boots, which will begin to tip them down the hill creating the release.  I don't think I have a problem with the hips moving down the hill so much as I do with trying to get forward along the ski.  

 

Thinking of a finished turn where skis are more or less across the hill.  I can easily move downhill, and the skis will tip.  The trouble comes when I try to move towards the tips of my skis.  I feel like my boots are stopping me from getting there comfortably.  

 

It certainly could be a combination of things, but I notice it in both the bumps and on the groomers.  In my mind I'm looking for a "tipping point as I move across the skis and down the hill.  At some point, gravity will take over.  I'm feeling like I just barely reach that point before I'm maxed out against the boot.  It seems like there should be a little bit more range of motion beyond that tipping point.  Maybe I'm just focusing too much on being "forward" along the skis rather than down the hill.

post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
 

 

I agree that the OP needs a more active inside leg and that shortening the inside leg and pointing the knee into the turn will likely help.  I would see if trying to lift the big toe on the inside foot might be a focus that could help get the inside leg tipped more effectivly and by extension also tip the outside foot.  I also suspect that there is also something funky with his lateral alignment in the boots in spite of his previous bootfitting efforts.

 

What I am seeing that no one else has addressed is that there is not a lot of flexion or extension in any part of the OPs turn.  The legs stay the same length and the knee angles don't ever seem to change.  I would like to see the knee angles opening and closing regardless of whether you favor release on flexion, extension, or a hybrid.  Because the OPs legs don't open or close on the fore/aft plane and stay basically the same length all the time, the CM isn't really moving through the arc of the turn.  

This!  will fix most of the other stuff!  And tipping your inside foot.  More lateral separation of skis.....slightly wider stance!

 

I don't agree with any of the toe comments either pushing your toes down or lifting them up.   

post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeFiter View Post
 

I think you are spot on with what you are saying here, but I'm not sure it is what I'm experiencing.  I'll elaborate a little bit more.  Thank you for pointing out the multiple meanings of "forward".  In my head, I know what I mean, but sometimes I forget that nobody else has the contest of what is going on up there.  

 

What I'm talking about is the notion of pulling the feet back so that the hips are ahead of the feet.  Since there are multiple directions that all can be considered forward, I'll say this move will put your shins against the front corners of your boots, which will begin to tip them down the hill creating the release.  I don't think I have a problem with the hips moving down the hill so much as I do with trying to get forward along the ski.  

 

Thinking of a finished turn where skis are more or less across the hill.  I can easily move downhill, and the skis will tip.  The trouble comes when I try to move towards the tips of my skis.  I feel like my boots are stopping me from getting there comfortably.  

 

It certainly could be a combination of things, but I notice it in both the bumps and on the groomers.  In my mind I'm looking for a "tipping point as I move across the skis and down the hill.  At some point, gravity will take over.  I'm feeling like I just barely reach that point before I'm maxed out against the boot.  It seems like there should be a little bit more range of motion beyond that tipping point.  Maybe I'm just focusing too much on being "forward" along the skis rather than down the hill.


TreeFiter,

Have you done pivot slips?  Straight down the fall line, with no travel left-right?

If so, you know where to stand on the skis in the bumps, and how that feels inside the boots.   

 

I guess I'm just skeptical that your forward lean is too upright to ski bumps.  

Maybe someone reading this thread has experience with upright boots messing them up in bumps?

OR I could be reading your thoughts wrong.  Happens all the time.

post #69 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 


TreeFiter,

Have you done pivot slips?  Straight down the fall line, with no travel left-right?

If so, you know where to stand on the skis in the bumps, and how that feels inside the boots.   

 

I guess I'm just skeptical that your forward lean is too upright to ski bumps.  

Maybe someone reading this thread has experience with upright boots messing them up in bumps?

OR I could be reading your thoughts wrong.  Happens all the time.

Its not just in the bumps.  I just happened to notice it during a bump clinic.   I just can't seem to get my hips ahead of my feet without feeling blocked by my boots.   It may very well be a technique issue, but I figured I would ask just in case.

post #70 of 75

Tree fitter, with all due respect, I don't think that you need to put yourself through all this technical minutiae to fix such a basic problem. I have a hard time believing that someone who posts on a forum like this so extensively would not have already taken care of boot canting. While this may sound overly simple to some and not a "ski school" solution for those who depend on the health of the industry, now that, thanks to seeing yourself ski, you know you are skiing with your legs closed, start skiing with them open, maintaining consciousness of that until it becomes second nature. Sure, you can over think it to death with manuals, diagrams, video, drill recommendations and suggestions that eventually take into account everything else you could be doing wrong, even put GPS transponders on every joint in your body and analyze it with bio-mechanic analysis software or you can just go out there, do it and get it done. This is probably what a race coach not bound and constrained to manuals would tell you vs the volumes of information you could muddle over for days on end. I would keep in mind, however, that a little knee angulation on the outside leg that is not conversely matched with the inside leg is not necessarily a bad thing. Upon a close look, you will see it all over today's WC racers. A lot of people on here like to call anything that may hint towards "A" framing as "A" framing which it is not. The "A" represents a position and the word "framing" represents an element of reliance on said position. I like to think of angulating the outside knee to quickly dial in an intended adjustment to the radius of a turn. That said, you are definitely "A" framing the sh*t out of those turns, are clearly very reliant on the position and are going to have to work hard enough on exercising it out of your technique without putting your head through all the above "mental calisthenics" to do it. Just to be clear, I am not saying that the advice given on this forum is not good. It just can be so detailed, expansive, interpretive and derivative that it can be very difficult to take all the way to fruition.


Edited by Rich666 - 3/3/15 at 8:09am
post #71 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 

Tree fitter, with all due respect, I don't think that you need to put yourself through all this technical minutiae to fix such a basic problem. I have a hard time believing that someone who posts on a forum like this so extensively would not have already taken care of boot canting. While this may sound overly simple to some and not a "ski school" solution for those who depend on the health of the industry, now that, thanks to seeing yourself ski, you know you are skiing with your legs closed, start skiing with them open, maintaining consciousness of that until it becomes second nature. Sure, you can over think it to death with manuals, diagrams, video, drill recommendations and suggestions that eventually take into account everything else you could be doing wrong, even put GPS transponders on every joint in your body and analyze it with bio-mechanic analysis software or you can just go out there, do it and get it done. This is probably what a race coach not bound and constrained to manuals would tell you vs the volumes of information you could muddle over for days on end. I would keep in mind, however, that a little knee angulation on the outside leg that is not conversely matched with the inside leg is not necessarily a bad thing. Upon a close look, you will see it all over today's WC racers. A lot of people on here like to call anything that may hint towards "A" framing as "A" framing which it is not. The "A" represents a position and the word "framing" represents an element of reliance on said position. I like to think of angulating the outside knee to quickly dial in an intended adjustment to the radius of a turn. That said, you are definitely "A" framing the sh*t out of those turns, are clearly very reliant on the position and are going to have to work hard enough on exercising it out of your technique without putting your head through all the above "mental calisthenics" to do it. Just to be clear, I am not saying that the advice given on this forum is not good. It just can be so detailed, expansive, interpretive and derivative that it can be very difficult to take all the way to fruition.

Rich666, I get where you are coming from on this, but I don't see it the same way as you.  Personally, I enjoy the technical minutia.  Its almost impossible to improve your technique if you don't know what you are trying to accomplish.  

 

With regard to having checked the canting, I have been going through hell trying to get my boots right.  I have been working with a boot fitter, but my confidence in this particular boot fitter is fading.  Yes, I have had my "canting" checked.  No, I'm not confident that it was done correctly.  One of the main reasons we even bother with things like canting is because if it is wrong, we will constantly be fighting against our equipment.  So my concerns about canting come from the idea that if my equipment is off, I may be compensating for it without realizing it.  I'm not banking on the idea that my issues stem from a boot issue, but it is certainly worth discussing in order to figure it out.  

post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeFiter View Post
 

Rich666, I get where you are coming from on this, but I don't see it the same way as you.  Personally, I enjoy the technical minutia.  Its almost impossible to improve your technique if you don't know what you are trying to accomplish.  

 

With regard to having checked the canting, I have been going through hell trying to get my boots right.  I have been working with a boot fitter, but my confidence in this particular boot fitter is fading.  Yes, I have had my "canting" checked.  No, I'm not confident that it was done correctly.  One of the main reasons we even bother with things like canting is because if it is wrong, we will constantly be fighting against our equipment.  So my concerns about canting come from the idea that if my equipment is off, I may be compensating for it without realizing it.  I'm not banking on the idea that my issues stem from a boot issue, but it is certainly worth discussing in order to figure it out.  

Getting where "I" may be coming from in regards to your response would be all I ask. Actually, I enjoy the technical minutia, ski related biomechanics, etc. also as have provided many examples. I would rather see the balance of the responses and following discussion to include a touch less of the analytically technical and making more room for the less tangible, experiential, emotional, and psychological components that are, in my opinion, equally as relevant. Yes, there is some, but very little in comparison. Speaking of which, not until I get to know these aspects regarding someone's skiing do I feel I could even get started with anything worth while. In light of this regard, if you had absolutely nothing at all holding you back, where is it you would take your skiing?

 

Sounds like a canting nightmare. While some people are fortunate enough to practically walk right into a neutral stance, I have seen many others mired in your circumstances. To which I hope that once you get it right, it is with a boot you are planning to keep for quite a few seasons.

post #73 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 

Getting where "I" may be coming from in regards to your response would be all I ask. Actually, I enjoy the technical minutia, ski related biomechanics, etc. also as have provided many examples. I would rather see the balance of the responses and following discussion to include a touch less of the analytically technical and making more room for the less tangible, experiential, emotional, and psychological components that are, in my opinion, equally as relevant. Yes, there is some, but very little in comparison. Speaking of which, not until I get to know these aspects regarding someone's skiing do I feel I could even get started with anything worth while. In light of this regard, if you had absolutely nothing at all holding you back, where is it you would take your skiing?

 

Sounds like a canting nightmare. While some people are fortunate enough to practically walk right into a neutral stance, I have seen many others mired in your circumstances. To which I hope that once you get it right, it is with a boot you are planning to keep for quite a few seasons.

Where I would like to take my skiing is a tricky question to answer.  I'm the kind of person who wants to pursue everything that interests me, so I find myself jumping around a bit between goals.  I guess at this point in my skiing career, I want to really tidy up my technique and focus on all mountain skiing.  My goal is to be as good of a skier as I can be.  Skiing in NY creates a set of limiting factors that force me to focus on different aspects during different times in the season.  For example, there aren't many moguls worth skiing until February, so I spend the first half of the season figuring out what I'm doing wrong on the groomers.  Then once the moguls are worth skiing, I shift gears and ski bumps as much as possible for the second half of the season.  

 

 

As far as the boot issues, it hasn't been fun.  I just found a new boot fitter, and he determined that I was fitted in the wrong boot.  He was able to make a few modifications for me that made things better, but in order to really fix the problem, I'll need new boots.  I haven't had a chance to get him to look at the actual canting of the boots, but I am hoping to go back to see him soon and have it looked at.   

post #74 of 75
In case it hasn't been covered, boots sometimes have cuff adjustments they refer to as canting, but it's just a cuff adjustment. Canting can involve some serious boot surgery.
post #75 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

In case it hasn't been covered, boots sometimes have cuff adjustments they refer to as canting, but it's just a cuff adjustment. Canting can involve some serious boot surgery.

I'm aware of the difference.  This was one of the things that convinced me to try my new boot fitter.  True canting adjustment, in which the sole of the boot is planed and plates are screwed to the boot to change the angle, seems to be an indicator of a good boot fitter.  Its not exactly a beginner skill set, so it seems to separate those that really know what they are doing from the guys just selling boots.  

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