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weight training exercises? - Page 5

post #121 of 153
jumping in here but are leg and hamstring curls always bad? Is there a good weight? Yikes I do them all the time.
post #122 of 153

Consistency beats intensity

ahh you're so old fashioned. So long as you do it I would think yeah it strengthens your legs to stabilize your knees.
post #123 of 153
But still, I'm wondering specificially what strength exercises are effective in developing hams. So hamstring curls...what do you mean by that? Are you talking about a machine that allows you to work your hams or something using weights. We all talk about the importance of hamstring strength, yet many do not know what to do to condition that part of the leg.

Plometrics offer great possibilities but again, hamstrings...what specifically.
post #124 of 153
Glute Ham Raise
post #125 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
But still, I'm wondering specificially what strength exercises are effective in developing hams. So hamstring curls...what do you mean by that? Are you talking about a machine that allows you to work your hams or something using weights. We all talk about the importance of hamstring strength, yet many do not know what to do to condition that part of the leg.

Plometrics offer great possibilities but again, hamstrings...what specifically.
Sprinting. Deadlifts. Good mornings. Planks. Squats (including bodyweight squats and bodyweight good-mornings, or one-legged bodyweight good-mornings).

Walking and carrying your own bag while playing golf.
post #126 of 153
Thanks CT,

Anyone else? It's helpful to hear what works for others and what training I can add to my routine.

Good mornings: what are they?

Sprints, often overlooked.
post #127 of 153
Few things on hammies...I go through 3 types of exercise- depending on what time of year it is. Id always weight train all year. After ski season and during the summer, do legs specifically 2 times a week. Squats and Lunges (and of course calves) one day and Curls, Extension, Abduction/adduction and leg press the other day, alternating heavy (4 sets 6 reps) medium (3 sets 10 reps) and light (2 sets 15 reps) with the last rep being extremely difficult in each. Also, Ill do sprints or real fast run on the treadmill with a steep incline. Just mix up the days so youre body part isnt real tired when you lift/run. When fall comes, incorporate more plyometrics and less lifting (but I keep lifting legs about once a week) to get your muscles in shape for the constant moving when skiing. Keep running on the treadmill/track too if you can, it helps the bloodflow and muslce recouperation. Many of the plyo's dont really do much aerobically, but the ones that do really tax your muscles and helps during the middle of a run where youre having too much fun to stop. The bike helps a lot too, or so ive heard. Remember though- marathon runners are string beans. Sprinters are jacked. Keep your running to a RUN- not a jog, not a stroll.
post #128 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
What would you suggest for hamstring training?
Sorry I'm so late in responding, Paul! You really don't have to do much for hammy training. Substitue stiff legged deadlifts for the regulars, or even Good Mornings (you may need to look these up on how to perform them) instead of the stiff-legs. You'd be surprised at just how much Hamstring training you get just from doing squats. Leg curls, both standing and in the lay-down position, also work, but do sets of 25 - 20 on these (I suggest that rep range for Leg extension work on the quads as well). If you jog, toss some intervals in where you'll sprint for 30 seconds to a minute.

Basically, you just want to keep your hamstrings close to proportionately as strong as your quads. In skiing especially, your hammies are used more to stabalize your quads than anything. You just want to make sure you don't ignore them altogether.
post #129 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
What would you suggest for hamstring training?
Sorry I'm so late in responding, Paul! You really don't have to do much for hammy training. Substitue stiff legged deadlifts for the regulars, or even Good Mornings (you may need to look these up on how to perform them) instead of the stiff-legs. You'd be surprised at just how much Hamstring training you get just from doing squats. Leg curls, both standing and in the lay-down position, also work, but do sets of 25 - 20 on these (I suggest that rep range for Leg extension work on the quads as well). If you jog, toss some intervals in where you'll sprint for 30 seconds to a minute.

Basically, you just want to keep your hamstrings close to proportionately as strong as your quads. In skiing especially, your hammies are used more to stabalize your quads than anything. You just want to make sure you don't ignore them altogether.
post #130 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
jumping in here but are leg and hamstring curls always bad? Is there a good weight? Yikes I do them all the time.
Leg extensions and hamstring curls aren't bad, but I wouldn't consider them good for strength training. Both of them are kind of notorious for throwing your knee alignment out of whack. If you do them, do them at light weights for high reps (15 - 20). Use compound joint exercises for building strength, and use single joint exercises to build endurance.

You won't catch guys using pectoral flys to strength train their chest, they'll use heavy bench and incline bench press. Similar for your legs. Rely on squats, deadlifts (Romanian and stiff-legged), leg presses, and lunges to build strength. Use your single joint exercises for endurance/toning.
post #131 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
Thanks CT,

Anyone else? It's helpful to hear what works for others and what training I can add to my routine.

Good mornings: what are they?

Sprints, often overlooked.
Good Mornings are a lower-back / hamstring training method similar to the stiff-legged deadlift. Rather than picking a weight off the floor, however, you'll start with a barbell resting on your trapezius / upper back like you would a weighted squat. To start the lift, you'll very slightly bend at the knees, so as not to lock your knees into position, and bend over at the waist. You'll be in the same position as a stiff-leg deadlift, only not bent over as far. You want to bend over only at about a 45 degree angle (i.e. not fully bent at the waist). The lifting portion is simply brining your upper body back into it's natural, vertical position. Start light, if you want to give them a try!
post #132 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
Few things on hammies...I go through 3 types of exercise- depending on what time of year it is. Id always weight train all year. After ski season and during the summer, do legs specifically 2 times a week. Squats and Lunges (and of course calves) one day and Curls, Extension, Abduction/adduction and leg press the other day, alternating heavy (4 sets 6 reps) medium (3 sets 10 reps) and light (2 sets 15 reps) with the last rep being extremely difficult in each. Also, Ill do sprints or real fast run on the treadmill with a steep incline. Just mix up the days so youre body part isnt real tired when you lift/run. When fall comes, incorporate more plyometrics and less lifting (but I keep lifting legs about once a week) to get your muscles in shape for the constant moving when skiing. Keep running on the treadmill/track too if you can, it helps the bloodflow and muslce recouperation. Many of the plyo's dont really do much aerobically, but the ones that do really tax your muscles and helps during the middle of a run where youre having too much fun to stop. The bike helps a lot too, or so ive heard. Remember though- marathon runners are string beans. Sprinters are jacked. Keep your running to a RUN- not a jog, not a stroll.
Brock,

I go by a similar training method, only slightly different. I'll train legs twice (typically Wed. and Sat.) with one day being heavy and the other day being light weights. For heavy weights, I use a weight that I can lift in a fast, controlled movement. I see too many guys going heavy with a weight that they have to struggle for their reps. I like to be able to explode out of my squat, for example, when going heavy.

Heavy day:

5 work sets of squats (4 - 6 reps)
3 work sets of deadlifts (2 - 6 reps)
either single leg press (on the leg press sled) or lunges (8 - 12 reps)
Calves and hammies are an after-thought. I played a lot of basketball as a kid, so I already have well developed calves. Squats will hit the hammies harder than most people appreciate.

Light day

3 work sets of front box squats(bar resting across the front of my shoulders with a box or a bench behind me. I'll touch my butt to the bench, just a touch, not a full sit, on the way down, 12 - 15 reps)

Superset leg extensions and leg curls (a superset is to perform both exercises as one set, rest, then perform both exercises for set 2, etc) 15 - 20 reps

Bosu ball body weight squats to failure. If I'm feeling strong, I'll hold 25 - 40 lb dumbells in the shoulder press position.

Leading up to the season, I'll do plyos rather than my light day. Plyometrics will build both power (strength + speed) and endurance. I'll also lighten up my heavy day and focus more on the 8 - 12 rep range. A note to everyone, if you can get 10 clean reps with a certain weight, it's too light. Add 5 - 10 lbs and shoot for another 10 reps on your next set. If you can get those 10 reps, add another 5 - 10 lbs. Keep going until you can no longer get 10 reps. Start your next leg workout (the next week, not the next exercise) at that weight (that which you could no longer perform 10).
post #133 of 153

wind sprints and intervals work too

I know it's not the same type of workout but when I ran more my hammys always got strong.
post #134 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct55 View Post
I know it's not the same type of workout but when I ran more my hammys always got strong.

Over looked by many! Nothing wrong with sucking a little wind.
post #135 of 153
In addition to the squats and deadlifts, the olympic lifts are some of the best overall conditioning lifts you can do. Clean and jerk and snatch!!

Get a coach, learn the movement, and reap the benefits.

Little known fact - olympic lifters have the highest average recorded vertical of any athletes. Also, the second highest amount of flexibility (behind gymnasts). Its all about explosive power.
post #136 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Js137 View Post
In addition to the squats and deadlifts, the olympic lifts are some of the best overall conditioning lifts you can do. Clean and jerk and snatch!!

Get a coach, learn the movement, and reap the benefits.

Little known fact - olympic lifters have the highest average recorded vertical of any athletes. Also, the second highest amount of flexibility (behind gymnasts). Its all about explosive power.
Most definitely! A lot of that is genetic, too. That's how they gauge whether someone starting off in power lifting has a future, by their vertical leap.

Definitely get a coach or a trainer if you plan to utilize these movements. They're not for the feint of heart, they're for someone that already has a strong strength base, and they're probably not for the older folks as they are incredibly taxing. I'd rather suggest plyometrics than these complex weight lifting movements though. Unless you're a world class athlete, I would say the risks outweigh the rewards when considering these movements.
post #137 of 153
Forrester - I agree completely that the movements can be dangerous. However, performed correctly, I don't feel they are any more dangerous than plyometrics and should be used in combination with plyometrics.

Crossfit currently has affiliates across the country and are even teaching these methods to people of all ages (granted you may be only doing the explosive movement with a PVC pipe!!) with great sucess and minimal injuries. They argue that your needs and an olympic athletes differ by degree not kind....
post #138 of 153
One thing I forgot to add - I have been posting a lot of information about Crossfit recently. I am not affiliated with them - I just think they have the best game in town.

I spent the last several years searching for what I thought was the best for overall conditioning and I really think Crossfit is it. So I am just trying to spread the wealth (if anyone will listen!!!). On a side note, the research is lagging behind the actual training, but it is coming slowly and the advantages of programs like this are looking to be quite large....
post #139 of 153
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I would highly recommend doing squats and lunges with a BOSU® Balance Trainer or balance board. Also, don't even think about doing squats or lunges with this thing with free weights as you'll kill yourself. Start with light weight on the smith machine, with the ball facing downward, and feet on either edge of the plastic (or wood) board. Do 4-5 sets of 10-12 reps, and then move on through the rest of your workout (also highly recommend the invisible chair) As a hardcore weightlifter, I hate promoting pilates stuff, but I promise your balance and stabilizer muscles will be engaged. The nice thing about this exercise is that you can lean back a bit on the bar with your feet further out, taking away the risk of knee injury, and more equally training your legs (quads and hamstrings). Hope this helps someone.

post #140 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabrown317 View Post
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I would highly recommend doing squats and lunges with a BOSU® Balance Trainer or balance board.

Probably about a couple of hundred posts and threads to that effect, but I am sincerely glad that someone from the "hardcore weightlifting" segment is actually suggesting this approach.
post #141 of 153
Most hardcore weightlifters hate Smith machines because they take away the need to balance and restrict you to the plane of movement given by the machine. Using a Bosu ball as a wobble board to promote balance while squatting may or may not make sense, depending on what you're after, but using it in a Smith machine to then make it easier to balance while on the unstable Bosu surface just seems illogical.

For people wanting to use more hamstrings while squatting, google box squats & pay attention to form. Or deadlift.
post #142 of 153
Glutes are where its at- one legged squats, weights optional. Balance and strength. Make sure your knee doesnt shoot forward too far (just drop your ass straight down) and keep the back bending to a minimum. Hands on hips, and go as far down as you can. Doing the sets back to back (each leg) gets a little cardio in too. Do it right and youll be winded.
post #143 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post
Most hardcore weightlifters hate Smith machines because they take away the need to balance and restrict you to the plane of movement given by the machine. Using a Bosu ball as a wobble board to promote balance while squatting may or may not make sense, depending on what you're after, but using it in a Smith machine to then make it easier to balance while on the unstable Bosu surface just seems illogical.

For people wanting to use more hamstrings while squatting, google box squats & pay attention to form. Or deadlift.
Very true, and to tell the truth, I'm not a fan of the Smith machine. However, doing squats with a balance board with free weights is pretty dangerous considering it would be easy to fall and drop the bar on you. It could also be very dangerous for your joints, especially your ankles. Using the smith machine with the board would help to train to keep your legs even and balanced, while still being safe (it doesn't matter how much training you do, if you hurt yourself, you won't be skiing well). No this exercise will not be as effective for abdominal stability, but there are other exercises you could do for that. Try hanging leg raises while trying to reverse peddle your legs...Helps in bumps, and trains you to keep the upper body still.
post #144 of 153
I would suggest as an alternative to use a rack. That way you have the safety to catch it if you need it.

But again, we're not talking 100s of pounds on a Bosu. You might pop the thing doing that!
post #145 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabrown317 View Post
Very true, and to tell the truth, I'm not a fan of the Smith machine. However, doing squats with a balance board with free weights is pretty dangerous considering it would be easy to fall and drop the bar on you. It could also be very dangerous for your joints, especially your ankles. Using the smith machine with the board would help to train to keep your legs even and balanced, while still being safe (it doesn't matter how much training you do, if you hurt yourself, you won't be skiing well). No this exercise will not be as effective for abdominal stability, .....
The whole point is to balance with the weight. The smith machine makes the addition of the balance board useless, as it holds the weight in place for you.
post #146 of 153
Why not simply perform a weight lifting exercise without the bar. For instance, a one-legged squat (pistol) on a bosu ball (or balance board etc.). Here you have a similar effect to lifting heavy weight without the risk of injuring yourself from a bar.

Seems like a good solution to me!
post #147 of 153
Or do it in a power-rack, with the pins set right...

Really, the weight should be very light anyway. An empty bar to start is quite enough.
post #148 of 153

Let's talk about conditioning again

Sitting here thinking how I'm going to work off off all the food consumed today for Christmas dinner. I'm working on increasing the intesity and consistency of my training to achieve some goals for my 50th birthday (approx. 14 months from now). I do 45 minutes of cardio (usually running, but some spinning or cycling on off days) on most days and for strength training I use 3, 12 week long cycles where I can emphasize endurance or strength or power. For power training I really work Pylometrics (I hope I spelled that right) and work very intensely. Otherwise I use split days and vary the exercises each week.

Tommorrow is legs and at the gym at 6am, where I do a brief cardio warmup and then three sun salutations, then Deadlifts (5 sets), Squats (5 sets) (superset wall sit for 60 seconds), Bulgarian Split Squats (5 sets), Straight leg deadlifts (5 sets), Bench step ups with dumbells for 60 seconds (5 sets) or bosu lunges if all the benches are taken (5 sets). I rest one minute between sets and 2 minutes at the end of each exercise. My second leg workout for the week is on Friday this week. My workout is a bit different. I do moon salutations, sumo deadlifts, leg press, lunges off a bench, farmers walk, lateral lunges with a dumbell, standing calf raises.

Any suggestions? What do you guys prefer for weight training legs?
post #149 of 153
wow - you're training like a spartan. As far as legs, only thing I would add is some calves somehow. I use the sled and toe raises or whatever. You'd be surprised how strong you can get. I find it helps keep the tips quieter. I will occasionally (when doing my combo/jumpstart workout) to do leg press with a toe raise at the end - kind of a combined rep. Otherwise do some normal amount of reps and sets with toe raises.
post #150 of 153

gd pts on working the calves more.

CT55: So whats your combo/jumpstart workout?

Tahoedreamer
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