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Will skiing moguls w/o instruction improve my ski skills? - Page 2

post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSLincks View Post
 

While you really do not need my answer at this point, many others have shared good info, I can not help being reminded of a truism (author not known to me) "If you practice anything consistently for 10,000 hours, you will master it and become an expert."

 

So in a word Yes.


Yes. If you practice Z turns, marginally controlled skidding and survival skiing for 10,000 hours, then you'll be an expert in Z turns, marginally controlled skidding and survival skiing.

 

Be careful what you practice and understand what you're actually practicing.

post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post
 


Yes. If you practice Z turns, marginally controlled skidding and survival skiing for 10,000 hours, then you'll be an expert in Z turns, marginally controlled skidding and survival skiing.

 

Be careful what you practice and understand what you're actually practicing.

Hi jhcooley,

 

I had originally decided "no need" to respond to your post, but hey what better opportunity to get to know something (even if trivial) about each other. I have a tendency, some would say a fault, in the belief that others are pretty smart, especially after I read their written word, and until they prove me wrong. I currently put you and the OP in that category. So the simple response back is Yes and Well sure, can't disagree. Also pretty sure you read the OP's thread title and post. He is not looking to improve in those areas and I give him credit for recognizing the difference, asking questions and making adjustments along the way. I mean there is not an actual shortage of good role models on the hill to watch or query if one is so disposed.

 

I was chuckling when I posted that (failed to add an emoticon) as most of us want gratification sooner, but I speak from experience witnessing my nephew do just that in another endeavor, so it does work.

 

If you were schooling me, no need, I never took a ski lesson and learned to master the moguls by practicing, doing and watching others. If you presented from a humor standpoint, apologies for my time spent and yours for having to read this post. So ......, here it comes, do you actually have "the experience of practicing something and not understanding what you are actually practicing?" ;)

 

JS

post #33 of 41

Many skiers become very skilled at inefficient skiing.  Sure, you can figure out a way to "get down" bumps (or steeps, or powder).  Are you skiing it?  Probably not.  Practice doesn't make perfect.  Perfect practice makes perfect.  All the ski schools in Colorado that I'm familiar with (most) will focus on bumps in a group lesson if you request such instruction and ski at a level adequate to absorb and put such coaching into practice.  They'll have one of their better instructors teaching the class.  Good luck.

post #34 of 41
Thread Starter 
My home mountain charges $130/hr for lessons. (They do not offer group lessons for adults on the bumps.) Hence is why I am trying to learn for free.
post #35 of 41

Well if you are looking to learn for free, then what you learn will be worth what you paid for it.

 

Rick G

post #36 of 41
Learning for free is ok, and you may learn a lot.
post #37 of 41

Crystal Mtn, I hope you read my last post. I included a piece there just for you. In your original post I sensed a desire, and an extension of desire is passion. Not sure of your athleticism but you even mentioned after one day of practice on somewhat icy moguls you witnessed some improvement. That is big!

Would spending money on lessons help and get you there faster? Quite possibly.

Can you do it on your own without lessons? Absolutely. I did it. It can be done.

 

If you are ever in the Northeast send me a PM. You can follow me. Best of luck.

 

JS

post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSLincks View Post
 

do you actually have "the experience of practicing something and not understanding what you are actually practicing?" ;)

Yes.

 

For years, I was convinced I was "pretty good," or "close to being able to ski really well," bumps included. I thought if I just tried harder (whatever that might mean), got into better shape, moved my feet faster, pushed harder, I'd have it.

 

Well, I could have kept trying what I was doing, but I probably only would have gotten better by accident, or random walk, if you will. An additional problem was that I probably couldn't even recognize the elements of highly skilled skiing. Anyone who put forth a reasonably athletic effort and looked fairly coordinated looked good to me.

 

Then, I met some instructors who were kind enough to give me some time (a lot of time, fortunately for me) and deconstruct my skiing. At age 29, I started over.

 

The learning process has never stopped, and I still don't ski as well as I'd like, but at my age, it's unlikely I ever will. I had become so good at so many ineffective movements that it took a long time to unlearn them, and some are still with me, if I don't pay attention.

 

Besides, if I ever think I ski well enough, it will become boring. Fortunately, I have learned enough so that I can still ski bumps, powder and trees in an OK fashion, despite increasing decrepitude. If I was still trying to do it through sheer effort, I would have had to quit years ago.

 

I remember a time when I was riding up a lift at Winter Park with the SSD, who pointed out another friend of mine skiing the bumps under the lift. This guy was absolutely hammering the bumps on the tails of his skis! Bob looked down and said that he had never seen anyone ski that well in a sitting position. The guy was inefficient, but he was really good at it.

 

I've never been strong enough to do that, but, obviously, some people are. That doesn't mean it's optimal, or that it will continue to work for them as they get older. I want to spend my 10,000 hours learning how to do it (bumps, powder, or skiing in general) in a way that will serve me for the rest of my skiing life.

post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post
 

Yes.

 

For years, I was convinced I was "pretty good," or "close to being able to ski really well," bumps included. I thought if I just tried harder (whatever that might mean), got into better shape, moved my feet faster, pushed harder, I'd have it.

 

Well, I could have kept trying what I was doing, but I probably only would have gotten better by accident, or random walk, if you will. An additional problem was that I probably couldn't even recognize the elements of highly skilled skiing. Anyone who put forth a reasonably athletic effort and looked fairly coordinated looked good to me.

 

Then, I met some instructors who were kind enough to give me some time (a lot of time, fortunately for me) and deconstruct my skiing. At age 29, I started over.

 

The learning process has never stopped, and I still don't ski as well as I'd like, but at my age, it's unlikely I ever will. I had become so good at so many ineffective movements that it took a long time to unlearn them, and some are still with me, if I don't pay attention.

 

Besides, if I ever think I ski well enough, it will become boring. Fortunately, I have learned enough so that I can still ski bumps, powder and trees in an OK fashion, despite increasing decrepitude. If I was still trying to do it through sheer effort, I would have had to quit years ago.

 

I remember a time when I was riding up a lift at Winter Park with the SSD, who pointed out another friend of mine skiing the bumps under the lift. This guy was absolutely hammering the bumps on the tails of his skis! Bob looked down and said that he had never seen anyone ski that well in a sitting position. The guy was inefficient, but he was really good at it.

 

I've never been strong enough to do that, but, obviously, some people are. That doesn't mean it's optimal, or that it will continue to work for them as they get older. I want to spend my 10,000 hours learning how to do it (bumps, powder, or skiing in general) in a way that will serve me for the rest of my skiing life.


You have a higher than average EQ (emotional quotient) and articulate well what you have experienced. You show an aptitude of high understanding for what is important. I too learned early and was first a "basher" in the bumps, but as I grew older change made sense not only for continued learning (which I love) but to "extend my expiration date." Thank you for the time spent in your response and the value in your words for those subscribed.

 

JS

post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Mtn View Post

My home mountain charges $130/hr for lessons. (They do not offer group lessons for adults on the bumps.) Hence is why I am trying to learn for free.

Then, you really are in a fix. The last two posts from jhcooley and JSLincks ring very true for me. I didn't start skiing until age 35, and had thought from my middle/high school experiences that I did not have an athletic bone in my body. Imagine my delight and surprise when I took to skiing like a duck to water! At age 35, I understood that if I wanted to get good at this discipline as quickly as I could, I would need to take lessons. A lot of them. Fortunately, I had and have the disposable income to do so. Fortunately also, I have picked up very few bad habits that have had to be broken.

 

So, as to your situation. Perhaps try to foster friendships with good skiers. Strike up conversations with other skiers on the lift. I have always done that, and have friends from literally all around the country with whom I ski on a regular basis. About 10 years ago I really hit the jackpot up at Mammoth with someone who, in a previous life, had competed in bumps. Turns out he lived about 3 miles from me in So CA, and we shared driving responsibilities on many more trips up to Mammoth. I learned more from following his tails than I could have almost any other way. More than anything else, he showed me what was physically possible to do with a given slope/line. 

post #41 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post

I would say it would be prudent to get some instruction so you practice the right things. 

This. I was a self taught skier who figured out how to get down most everything. And then practiced the incorrect mechanics year after year until they became nicely habituated. Sigh. :(

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