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Preview: 2016 Blizzard Cochise

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

So, the new Cochise is a ton of fun. First runs on mine this morning... impressive.

 

I will get some photos up here as soon as I can, it's the crazy season right now, the ski season is in full swing and trade shows are all starting. As soon as I can catch my breath I'll update this.

 

Some very basic info: New Carbon Cochise, the top sheet of metal in the Cochise has been replaced with carbon, there is much more tip and tail taper and a few millimeters of camber... oh camber, how I like thee. The early release was 100 pairs of 185cm and 192cm. Dimensions are 136-108-122, 27m turn radius in 185.  My pair weighs 15.5 lbs with an FKS 180


Edited by Whiteroom - 1/10/15 at 9:06pm
post #2 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

So, the new Cochise is a ton of fun. First runs on mine this morning... impressive.


^This - totally agree.  Loving mine and was about to do a mini-review.  I like them better than the older version

 

*nevermind


Edited by givethepigeye - 1/10/15 at 9:26am
post #3 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

So, the new Cochise is a ton of fun. First runs on mine this morning... impressive.

 

Noticeably lighter swing weight?  They could really use that in the bumps.

post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

 

Noticeably lighter swing weight?  They could really use that in the bumps.

Yes, plus new tip and tail profiles, more taper. I never skied this years version with camber, I've owned two pairs of the OG Cochises. As much as I liked their combination of surfyness and power on edge, they just did nothing for me on firm snow. The 2016 is really, really fun on firmer snow and feels much less 'planky', lighter and livelier without losing too much oomph.

 

(the matte grey/black ski with orange bull combined with an FKS 180 looks dope as well)

post #5 of 20

hmmm this sounds dangerous to my wallet.

 

Same lengths?

post #6 of 20

IMHO, this is just what the Cochise needed. Good example of a step forward  as @Philpug suggested Thumbs Up  @segbrown that would be killer ski for you! 

 

 

On another subject.  to shop owners, I liked @dawgcatching   idea of doing some kind of step down discount to consumers through the shops (which could involve lowering previously purchased inventory cost/charges) for model changes or "overstock" over the dump and run strategy we all see.  If I were a shop owner and carried Blizz (for instance) and saw what STP was dumping inventory for, I would be less than thrilled.  You support the brand an have a stake it its success and then they liquidate the inventory to someone who has zero stake in the game. 

post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

IMHO, this is just what the Cochise needed. Good example of a step forward  as @Philpug suggested Thumbs Up  @segbrown that would be killer ski for you! 

 

 

On another subject.  to shop owners, I liked @dawgcatching   idea of doing some kind of step down discount to consumers through the shops (which could involve lowering previously purchased inventory cost/charges) for model changes or "overstock" over the dump and run strategy we all see.  If I were a shop owner and carried Blizz (for instance) and saw what STP was dumping inventory for, I would be less than thrilled.  You support the brand an have a stake it its success and then they liquidate the inventory to someone who has zero stake in the game. 

I'm not following you here, what are you suggesting? Honestly curious. 

post #8 of 20

@Whiteroom Well, as an outsider, it seems like that when a manufacturer dumps inventory to a wholesaler like STP, they are aren't selling that inventory at the same prices you buy them for,  Why not offer you the same prices so you can at least sell the inventory at a lower price but maintain better margins?  STP is dumping skis at 40-60% off. I would think that some shops could use those reduced prices to offset loses or at least buy excess inventory at reduced prices and make something. It just seems shop owners have much more skin in the game than a STP.  You are the backbones to them; not the STP's of the world.  I could be wrong but its just my perception. 

post #9 of 20

Oh well - missed the title - thought we were talking 2015's which are a nice change as well.  need to save some $ for the 2016's I guess if they are that mo better

post #10 of 20

Do the 2016's have any more camber?

post #11 of 20
we need more info in this preview :-)

sizes, radius, dimensions...
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

@Whiteroom Well, as an outsider, it seems like that when a manufacturer dumps inventory to a wholesaler like STP, they are aren't selling that inventory at the same prices you buy them for,  Why not offer you the same prices so you can at least sell the inventory at a lower price but maintain better margins?  STP is dumping skis at 40-60% off. I would think that some shops could use those reduced prices to offset loses or at least buy excess inventory at reduced prices and make something. It just seems shop owners have much more skin in the game than a STP.  You are the backbones to them; not the STP's of the world.  I could be wrong but its just my perception. 


Another outsider, but not sure your premise is right. In other retail, you see chains or wholesalers getting dated overstock or liquidation stock from individual retailers, not manufacturers; could be wrong about how it works for skis.  But in general, small stores have real needs to move inventory. Lot of sunk costs sitting in those racks and in back. If you hold on to it on the bet you'll sell it eventually at a deep discount and get a bit better margin, you could nonetheless have it for a good long time. During which it eats up that margin in its opportunity costs. Places like STP are designed from the get go to do that, small retailers are not. 

 

In addition, I doubt individual retailers would be offering you skis you'd want at STP prices. I notice that STP tends to have older models, rarely just last season, and the models or lengths no one bought back when they were new. Ditto for Denver Wholesale until they decided to start also doing new skis, for no real discount. It's been funny watching both trying to sell Stockli SS's in the 188 length - suitable only for Captain America or The Hulk - literally for years, may still be for all I know. I see that model around ebay too, at spectacular prices. Not sure that's much of a deal, getting an expensive ski no one wanted when it was new, for half off. IMO places that members here are associated with year in and year out offer the best prices for desirable skis, sometimes last year's or blems, but still well-reviewed models.  

post #13 of 20

@beyond   FWIW- for the last 2 years STP has blown out prime Bizz' nordica and even kastle skis in the off season. They were selling 173 MX83's for about 450-500 for instance.  The Clymb, SAC and others are known for this as well.  

post #14 of 20

OK, believe you about the specific skis; don't much follow STP and DWS except for oddities like plates or for clothing. But just not sure where those skis come from, or who paid what for them, or how many hands they've been through. The Clymb and SAC, IMO, offer a lot of freestyle twins and fats, and often from particular brands - Faction comes to mind - that apparently are being overproduced, and a lot of Fischers that never seem to catch on with Americans. I haven't seen any skis I'd want to own, and they I do follow. DWS does offer some skis I'd want, but at prices a lot like anyone else; the stuff that's cheap is like 6 year old Stocklis or some of the innumerable fat Elans no one every buys. 

 

Mainly I feel that it's kinda weird to be pressuring brick and mortar retailers here to lower their prices to compete with the STP's of the world when in fact all we know is that the STP's have far lower overhead per unit, and can afford to make a smaller margin on top of that because of volume. We don't know where they get their skis from - manufacturers or retailers or other - and we don't know what prices the upstream suppliers charge them. Could be, for instance, that if they get their skis directly from the manufacturer they have a deal that the manufacturer wouldn't cut with a local store.  

 

You'd be surprised how often manufacturers undercut local merchants, either by diffusing the brand online, or by violating non-compete agreements and letting the guy down the street carry the same brand you're showcasing. Notice that Nordica and Blizzard are buzzing their 2016 models, will release them early. What's that do to the merchants carrying 2015's? Yeah, Phil's dutifully showcasing them here, but curious what this will do to SH's sales of this season's along about mid Feb. Or could be that STP got skis from a retailer going out of business, or from a big box brick and mortar store that can take a loss. I've seen that happen in other retail.

 

IMO if Kastle is dumping skis on STP - and the MX83 is an odd one to dump, since it's very popular - they're asking for a cheapening of the brand. Why should anyone pay for a premium brand if they can get it next season for half price? I doubt they're dumb enough to do that, but I've been wrong before in overestimating manufacturer IQ. And if our own retailers could get those same skis at the same price, they must be fairly dense not to. 

 

Wake up and smell the coffee, Finn: Brick and mortar stores across America are getting creamed by online behemoths like Amazon. Tried to find a bookstore lately? And I'd guess skiing stores are in added trouble because of the iffy economic and physical climate. So if you can prove to me that Whiteroom or Dawg or Phil or the rest here are not working with the manufacturer to get them at the same price as STP just because they're lazy or uncreative, I'll listen. But I don't believe that. So Show me. 

post #15 of 20
Ok Whiteroom I have those new 2015 Cochise still in the wrapper from REI as well as the Salomon STH2 WTR 16 unmounted.........do I just take them right on back and wait for the new Cochise? I paid full price and really I am in no hurry.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyj View Post

Ok Whiteroom I have those new 2015 Cochise still in the wrapper from REI as well as the Salomon STH2 WTR 16 unmounted.........do I just take them right on back and wait for the new Cochise? I paid full price and really I am in no hurry.

I would take the 2015 cochuse back and buy the same ski online for $200 to $300 less in a month. The new cochise has tapered tips and no metal so it will ski differently. You may like the new one better or you may not. It all depends on you style and what you want to do. If you know you like the 2015 cochise already then there is no reason to get the 2016 version
post #17 of 20
Excellent advice. However, I never skied the 2015 Cochise and I did return it. The 2016 Cochise is on my doorstep at home delivered from Vermont today. Rossi FKS 140 being delivered from REI next week. Will post a pic when mounted.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyj View Post

Excellent advice. However, I never skied the 2015 Cochise and I did return it. The 2016 Cochise is on my doorstep at home delivered from Vermont today. Rossi FKS 140 being delivered from REI next week. Will post a pic when mounted.

Good decision. I will be getting my Cochise next week. I am sure there are a few members here that would like to get on them as a comparison to their current Cochises. @JayT

post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Good decision. I will be getting my Cochise next week. I am sure there are a few members here that would like to get on them as a comparison to their current Cochises. @JayT
It is bittersweet however, as my wife tore her ACL at Copper two weeks ago on a very icy run. Major bummer as it was her second ACL. Maye will get a few days on the new skis but it will not be the season we were hoping for. The only consolation is that the snow has been pretty weak in Colorado this year.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by lh1978 View Post

I would take the 2015 cochuse back and buy the same ski online for $200 to $300 less in a month. The new cochise has tapered tips and no metal so it will ski differently. You may like the new one better or you may not. It all depends on you style and what you want to do. If you know you like the 2015 cochise already then there is no reason to get the 2016 version

cochise still has metal, bodacious doesn't have metal for 15/16 but the cochise has metal in all versions to date
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