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"Why don't you wear a helmet Dad?" - Page 2

post #31 of 58
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gooseman:

Lodro I kind of look at it this way if you have any self preservation instincts why would you not try and protect your head. ...Two years ago I lost one of my best friends to a head injury that we were told could have not turned fatal if he had a helmet. This is not a question of whether a helmet is going to save your life it is a question of whether it is safer to have one on or not. I just don't see the point of taking the risk especially when you ski very aggresively.

Yea, I agree with most of that, again, I'd just like to see a little more evidence that it is a real and significant threat, that's all. Kind of like the same data we see for seatbelt usage.

There is a whole continum of risks we are exposed to, and I don't think its enough to just say if there is any risk then that's enough argument. At some point the trade-off becomes less certain. For instance, should we all wear spine-protectors, as well? Spinal injuries do occur with some frequency in skiking. To be a little ridiculous, should we wear helmets around the house? After all, head injuries are common causes of deaths in all kinds of freak accidents in all kinds of places, including falling in the bathtub, no joke. I can remember banging my head in many places not skiing where I wished at that moment I was wearing a helmet. : )

Anyway, not trying to make a big deal out of this, I'm really just honestly trying to decide for myself whether wearing a helmet makes sense. Has anyone seen any good data?

And very sorry to hear about your friend.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 24, 2001 11:12 AM: Message edited 2 times, by Lodro ]</font>
post #32 of 58
I did a little research on my own, and found a CPSC study from a few years back that was actaully a bit stronger argument than I expected. If this data is correct, it seems like a pretty compelling argument:

"The CPSC study estimates that 7,700 head injuries -- including 2,600 head injuries to children -- could be prevented or reduced in severity each year by using skiing or snowboarding helmets. The study also shows that helmet use could prevent about 11 skiing- and snowboarding- related deaths annually."

Considering this number in the context that there aren't that many skiers out there, this seems fairly compelling. Still not as strong an argument as for other sports, but pretty good.

Reading further, over half of all deaths were caused by head injury. Half of those were deemed "addressable" by a helmet. But by "adressable" the study does not mean that the helmet would have prevented death.

Anyway, good information:
post #33 of 58
I wear a helmet, but i did not want to wear one. It was a xmas gift from my parents( I was thirty), that part still makes me laugh. I would never have bought one at that point. Anyway, the helmet has two rock strikes and a tail strike in it! It has saved at least one trip for stitches and possibly three. I have never hurt my ACL while skiing, but I have knocked myself silly a few times prior to the helmet. They are not that warm, and if you wear a polypro beenie they are not clammy either. Mine does not interfere with hearing.
They are all ugly so buy something on sale!!
post #34 of 58
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JoCanadian:
Anyway, the helmet has two rock strikes and a tail strike in it! It has saved at least one trip for stitches and possibly three...They are all ugly so buy something on sale!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, well now I'm seriously thinking about it..btw, you're probably already aware of this, but if Ski helments are anything like motorcycle and bicycle helmets (I'm assuming that they are very similar), you should typically replace a helmet after a major strike. The liner is often expanded styrene ?? IIRC, basically styrofoam. Even if its not apparant from the outside, you can compress the shock-absorbing material inside or otherwise strucuturally weaken the helmet. Nicks, etc.. excepted.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 24, 2001 01:59 PM: Message edited 3 times, by Lodro ]</font>
post #35 of 58
I've been wearing a helmet for cycling for over 15 years now. I just started skiing again this last year and bought a helmet for that. It's kinda like the old saying about what is the difference between a ression and a depression. A ression is when your friends are out of work. A depression is when you are out of work. The only statistic that matters on wearing a helmet is when you thump your head and you can walk/ski away. Up till then wearing a helmet is a real pain.

My girl friend refuse to wear one. She's skiied 20 years and never needed one yet.

My oldest son now wear's his cycling helmet religously after taking a face plant on his bike. Oh, and where was his helmet I bought for him? On his haldle bars. He didn't want to wear one because it was too hot (87F). One fine concusion, and 38 stiches to his chin, nose, & fore head later (Ugly dueling scar) changed his attitude.

Head impact is head impact no matter how it's done. Thumping your head around the house is one thing. But when you are at speed, a head impact can have a real ping pong ball effect on our soft brains inside the hard shell of our skulls.

My vote, set an example for the kids, wear a helmet. Its that goose & gander thing.
post #36 of 58
Cool, the first thread featuring quotes from the great Artie Johnson! [img]tongue.gif[/img] AC, send this fellow a sticker!
post #37 of 58
I don't get this thing about helmets. For thousands of years nobody wore one. Now, people wear them. The slopes are the same, snow is the same, chair lift is the same. What changed?

And why do people ski with back packs? I'm thinking to myself, "What's up with the survivalist look"? What? Are they worried about getting too far away from the lodge?
post #38 of 58
You're right Wacko my boy..... no need for a helmet in your case. But you should empathize with those who have something up there to protect.
post #39 of 58
What's with all these vaccinations, penicillin and other antibiotics, various drugs which keep my heart regular and without which I wouldn't have much of a life, etc etc etc. For thousands of years people did without them. I mean, what's the point of living longer, living better, protecting ourselves? If you really don't care, don't bother. Some of us care and will seek better, safer, more protective ways of enjoying life. The fact that human kind didn't do something for "thousands of years" is no reason why . . . hey! You're TROLLING! Ya got me! Touche and all that

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 24, 2001 07:09 PM: Message edited 1 time, by oboe ]</font>
post #40 of 58

Good one - much better than oboe. oboe. What's up with you? Can't you do any better than that?
post #41 of 58
No, SCSA, (sigh) no I can't. Advancing age, poor gene pool, and wearing a helmet too tight. Them's the breaks.
post #42 of 58
Buy a multiple impact helmet, Wearing a helmet would be very costly if i had to replace it every time I smacked my head.
post #43 of 58
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JoCanadian:
Buy a multiple impact helmet, Wearing a helmet would be very costly if i had to replace it every time I smacked my head.

I didn't know they made them, cool.
post #44 of 58
Here's a nice clear homespun article I found on Google on the subject:
post #45 of 58
Thread Starter 
Great little article.

This statement spoke to me most of all..

"Clearly, the case for wearing a ski helmet is a strong one and head injuries (or traumatic brain injuries) are nothing to fool around with. The decision to wear a brain bucket or not is a personal one, but for those who depend on me, to make the decision for them (my children), there is only one way to go."

Thanks. I dont mind looking like Artie Johnson anymore. (All the chicks thought he was sexy anyway.) Huhhhhh....right???
post #46 of 58
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SCSA:
I don't get this thing about helmets. For thousands of years nobody wore one. Now, people wear them. The slopes are the same, snow is the same, chair lift is the same. What changed?

snowboards [img]tongue.gif[/img]

(I know I'm gonna pay for that cheap shot!)
post #47 of 58
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SCSA:
ski with back packs? I'm thinking to myself, "What's up with the survivalist look"? What? Are they worried about getting too far away from the lodge?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woo hoo! Reviving an old thread!

I personally use a pack when I'm out, simply because I'll often be at the top of the hill, look one way or another and think "Whoa. I need to ski that", and look at my trail map only to find I can't get there, so I'll hotfoot it. When I'm not on the trail, I like to have a few things, amongst them: water, snacks(lunch, too!), extra socks, an extra fleece, radio, and a couple other things. I usually have a couple chemical snaplights for night skiing, just to keep myself visible to our favourite people on those strange single skis that both feet hook to? What are they called again? [img]smile.gif[/img] In any case, I don't really -need- to have the pack, but it's nice to know that I can just up and leave the trails if need be.
post #48 of 58
Helmets for cyclists is a very good idea, if you fall off a bike you WILL hit something hard, 1/3 of all cycling injuries are head injuries. Falling while skiing you will probably land on something with good impact absorption properties - snow. Head injuries make up less than 2% of skiing injuries, you will probably have a soft landing.

If you put on a helmet and feel safe in your little plastic world you are a hazard to yourself and others. In 1998 of the 8 snowboarders who died on the slpoes 7 were hit by skiers wearing helmets. Basically SUV syndrome, your feeling of invincibility makes you a hazard to others.

We ski because the speed and danger is exciting. If you think wearing a helmet makes you safer, you ski in such a way as to get back to the original feel of excitement ie more dangerously.

I am not against helmets, I am against the idea that if you wear a helmet you are safe and don't need to think about the hazards on the mountain.

Wear a helmet, but don't think you are safe.

P.S. the main reason I am tempted to get a helmet is to protect me from the paranoid parents on chairlifts who lower the safety bar before your feet leave the ground and hit you on the head with it.
post #49 of 58
that certainly holds true in many cases, but I wear a helmet for park use, and off-piste use, the latter being a place where in a number of cases, you will -not- hit something soft if you bite it, and the former to a certain extent as well
post #50 of 58
[caution]philosophical drivel following:/[caution]

SCSA's troll of "how did we ever exist before helmets has a lot of merit".

I recently picked up a copy of SKIER magazine (a Canadian publication) and read a well written article by Mitchel Scott on why "newer is not always better". He pointed out that despite new high-speed quads, more comfortable ammenities, easier access to areas, smoother groomed trails, etc., the 'ski experience' has not gotten better - just more watered down.

Now you can go out on the slope with not only a strong assurance of what to expect, but realatively little or no chance for the unexpected, ei. - no chance for adventure (whether good or bad). Slopes get ripped apart in hours now, not days. People complain now about the least inconvenience when a chair stops briefly or the lodge doesn't have warm, comfy chairs. We seem to need everything more 'user friendly' and 'safer' without realizing that it's diluting our original passion for the sport - A chance for ADVENTURE.

Helmets seem perfectly logical, but where does it end? I predict that one day we will never have to leave the safety of our home to experience the thrill of skiing. Someday we'll all just plug our brains into a ski program and experience the sensations of a great powder run without ever leaving the sofa.

Hey! I'm happy about the innovation of releasable bindings and would never go back to my old cable traps, but I still can recognize the line between enjoying creature comforts and a margine of safety, vs. the exilharation of an unpredictable adventure.

Except in extremely exposed descents and racing, a helmet will never factor in to my idea of what skiing is all about. If that's an archaic notion - then i'm proud to be archaic.
post #51 of 58
There have been some recent sports medicine studies that as gear, footwear, exercise aquipment, etc. have become more technological, orthopedic injuries have actually increased! I'm not sure if this relates to helmet use, but I wonder, if for some, it provides a false sense of safety, so people ski with less control.

But of course, a Bear would never do that!
post #52 of 58
Ive always worn a helmet riding my dirt bikes and street bikes, so when I got back into skiing last season after 14 years away I said to my wife I think we should get some helmets, we make the kids wear them. (ages 4, 6, and 8 first year skiing)but she didn't want to wear one. Well......she fell down backwards not even going 5mph and smacked her head real hard. Lost her vision for maybe 5 minutes and got a mild concussion and ended her weekend almost before it even started.GUESS WHAT I WAS DOING NEXT WEEK???
We bought 2 Boeri Axis helmets that are really comfy(full coverage)no problems hearing and you don't even know their on your head. One nice feature is the Outlast lining material which is supposed to regulate heat and seems to really work. I sweat like a pig in helmets and this stuff seemed to really control this, although I didn't try it in spring conditions. Any way I highly recommend this helmet and HIGHLY RECOMMEND everyone use one.
After being away from skiing for so long I am sooooooo hooked again and so is the family(ok maybe not as much as me, I spent the entire off season doing gear research talking about snow, and driving my wife crazy)so my question is, do I have to move to Utah or is it ever going to FU*#^@^ING snow in the east? I'm going crazy hearing about 100 or more inches of snow out west.
One more thing...I'm a new member...great site

Jeff J.
post #53 of 58
Welcome Jeff J

Thanks for the account of your helmet experience.

You need to learn a new snow dance. The ones you are using are not working
post #54 of 58
Hi, Jeff! I like your post and your profile. The point about seatbelts and airbags is not that I expect to have any accident at all - in fact, I expect NOT to. The point is the degree of protection IF I DO have n accident. I also pay insurance premiums with the same thought in mind. I was one of the most vociferous hold-outs on the helmet thing - but now I wear a helmet. I figure that my head is that important. I found that it is warm but not too warm. I also found that, in the trees, it protects the head and ears from branches, and that, in turn keeps me going without incident. As to be life protecting? I don't know, but my head does even more than keep me alive - it helps me earn a living, for example so I want to take care of it. If I wear a hat anyway, why not? What will happen in the really warm spring? Don't know. Might wear it, might not, might get a shorter, cooler and more ventilated helmet for that. The body part I have most frequently punished in skiing mishaps, so far, has been my torso - from the body slams of eggbeaters. For me, as a new helmet wearer, the jury is still out and I'm thinking about it. As kids, we rode our bikes everywhere - never wore helmets, never HEARD of bike helmets. I do not recall a single head injury. I see that in bike races in Europe, the riders will wear helmets for some of the events and just hats for others. Assuming there will be snow in the East this year [aarrrgghhh!!!!], I may continue to wear the helmet and think about it. In the trees, I'm most likely to continue wearing it. Other places? Don't know for sure. At the end of the season [if we have a season], I'll be back atcha on this subject. As I said, the jury is still out.
post #55 of 58
HarryO- what a dork. I didn't think they made helmets for watermelons?
post #56 of 58
I got my dad to wear a helmet!!!! I actually just think its cuz he is going bald and it keeps his head warm... oh well whatever works!!
post #57 of 58
Got a helmet this year after 40 years of skiing without one and never being in a situation where I needed one. It's comfortable, warm, and it makes my goggles fit better. My son's looks cooler, though.
post #58 of 58
After blowing a gate and almost "buying" a stand of hardwoods, I started wearing a helmet last year.

I also have a few extra kid sizes that I carry in the truck. When my 11 year olds buddies want to tag along the rule is that either they wear a helmet or they don't go.
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