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Delaying when the ski get loaded

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

Notice how I am trying to not say pressure....

 

I may have some difficulty explaining this but here goes.  Let's suppose I am going to turn around a gate. I have started my transition/turn a bit too early and I want to delay that moment when I load up the outside ski.  What do I do?  Can I increase weight on the inside leg, so I can then unload it and transfer the weight back to the outside, or am I sh*t out of luck?  Pete

post #2 of 9

What you are talking about is commonly called "double turning". And its very common. There is really no way you can fix it once it happens. In training we focus on timing and how to avoid it. So yes, once you are sh*t out of luck you are. However, are you familiar with the "white pass turn"?

post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
I have seen it referenced here quite a bit.
post #4 of 9

This is really a lot simpler that we make it out to be.  I think many folks approach this in a bass-ackwards manner. 

 

What is the most important thing in racing?   Line. No?  What is line? Turn shape. So, in essence you're trying to adjust your line. So let's examine this for a moment.

 

How many ways can you adjust the line?  You can reduce the edge angle. You can let up a bit on the forward pressure. You can STEP to a new line. you can do a combination of all of the above (and more that aren't coming to mind at this moment that I learned once upon a liftetime ago at Junior Bonous' race camp). 

 

The best advice I can give you is to work toward previsualizing your turn shape (line) before you begin execution. Obviously there are lots of things in a race course that can change your plan, but at least you begin with a plan A. 

 

BTW... Speaking of the Whitepass turn, it is probably the most misunderstood move in skiing.  I'll save this one for another thread. 

 

The bottom line is that mechanics should be movements in response to conditions within one's desire to create a certain line or turn shape rather than a pre-packaged action that we hope will create that correct path. This is why the pros can ride the line between winning and disaster. 

 

Good luck Pete. . 

post #5 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterk123 View Post
 

Notice how I am trying to not say pressure....

 

I may have some difficulty explaining this but here goes.  Let's suppose I am going to turn around a gate. I have started my transition/turn a bit too early and I want to delay that moment when I load up the outside ski.  What do I do?  Can I increase weight on the inside leg, so I can then unload it and transfer the weight back to the outside, or am I sh*t out of luck?  Pete

 

You're not entirely out of luck. Your options are fairly limited, but you're not totally hosed yet. Two things need to be present in order to load your ski. First is the energy to decamber that ski and load it, and the second is the platform against which this energy can work. If you can delay the application of either of these, you can delay the loading of your ski. There are two common ways to do it, one is fairly easy at the cost of speed, while the other is very difficult but maintains much more speed through the turn. 

 

The easy way to do it is to reduce edge angle and let your skis scrub a little. This doesn't allow your skis the platform against which to load the ski. Like I said, the downside is that you are going to lose speed doing this. 

 

The hard way, which will work if you realize your mistake quickly enough, is to retract your legs rather than actively pressuring the skis at the top/middle of the turn. In most carving turns, the top part of the turn occurs before the ski is fully loaded, before the force from your COM drives into the ski and loads it up. If in that moment you begin retracting with your legs, your legs will essentially become shock absorbers, and give you a very brief momentary delay before you need to load the ski. This is far more difficult, because when you do go to load that ski, your COM has travelled further, and gained more momentum. Your body position will also be lower and more compressed than in a usual turn, making your joint angles not as ideal to leverage the skis. Using this will elongate your turn, but the bottom of the turn is going to require a lot more strength to pull out, and your chances of blowing out of the turn are much greater. The risk of injury also goes up with this type of tactic, because if you go too far, you're putting yourself in a very good position to blow out a knee. 

post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 

I have another question.  Did my first run through gates in eight years last night.  Nothing like an 8degree evening with 25mph winds to start things off; that sucked.  I had two major issues, one is easy to fix.  I got fixated on THE gate.  Need to remember to look at ahead.  The second one I have yet to figure out.  I need about three gates before I build enough speed to begin bending the ski.  I skate through the first and can skate a bit on the second.  I question if it is prudent to skate to number two because getting the ski on edge was a bit tricky.  By the third I am really close to getting to speed, probably enough to bend at that point.  The course up top is flat, I get a good enough push out of the start and I can skate.  However, I truly feel like a new born four legged animal going around number two, which probably screws me up for number three.  Running gates definitely has compounding effects :)  Is this also a staring at the wrong gate problem?  Or do I need to exercise a bit of patience and just stop skating after rounding the first gate?  Once I am going it was all good, actually too good because I was accelerating like hell and forgot to look ahead.  That one I can rectify easily though.  

 

thx Pete

post #7 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterk123 View Post
 

I have another question.  Did my first run through gates in eight years last night.  Nothing like an 8degree evening with 25mph winds to start things off; that sucked.  I had two major issues, one is easy to fix.  I got fixated on THE gate.  Need to remember to look at ahead.  The second one I have yet to figure out.  I need about three gates before I build enough speed to begin bending the ski.  I skate through the first and can skate a bit on the second.  I question if it is prudent to skate to number two because getting the ski on edge was a bit tricky.  By the third I am really close to getting to speed, probably enough to bend at that point.  The course up top is flat, I get a good enough push out of the start and I can skate.  However, I truly feel like a new born four legged animal going around number two, which probably screws me up for number three.  Running gates definitely has compounding effects :)  Is this also a staring at the wrong gate problem?  Or do I need to exercise a bit of patience and just stop skating after rounding the first gate?  Once I am going it was all good, actually too good because I was accelerating like hell and forgot to look ahead.  That one I can rectify easily though.  

 

thx Pete

Skate til you can't is a good general guideline. And you can still be driving energy through the ski like you were skating while keeping both skis on the snow. Watch the SL starts of WC skiers, and watch the distance between their skis closely. They're almost always "skating" with both skis on the snow for the first few gates. 

post #8 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterk123 View Post

The course up top is flat, I get a good enough push out of the start and I can skate.  However, I truly feel like a new born four legged animal going around number two, which probably screws me up for number three.  Running gates definitely has compounding effects smile.gif  Is this also a staring at the wrong gate problem?  Or do I need to exercise a bit of patience and just stop skating after rounding the first gate?  Once I am going it was all good, actually too good because I was accelerating like hell and forgot to look ahead.  That one I can rectify easily though.  

thx Pete
skating through the second gate is not common. If the set is on flats, they should not make it too tight or ofset, allowing you to glide through it. Just glide through the second gate, skid the top of the turn if you can't carve it and focus on getting setup early for the third and following gates.
post #9 of 9

Delayed ski ejection can be very dis-gratifying especially if you can't keep up with your ski date.

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