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Ski recommendation for intermediate clydesdale

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
1st poster, evening all.

Just getting back into the groove after a long term hiatus from skiing (decades). I wasn't sure how I'd get on and didn't fancy hiring so just pulled trigger on basic shoes and ski - after a few days I am am all in and ready to start skiing again. definitely sure the boots are way too soft (70 flex) and suspect skis are too flexible too (2013 Atomic Nomad Blackeye 181, not the Ti version). I weigh 110kg and am 193 - I guess I am an intermediate and hoping to progress to advance so need a pair that would take me there as I will be skiing 20-25 days/season. My skiing weight used to be 90 so hope to be able to get back in shape while improving my ability too.

I am more inclined towards short to medium turns so a slalom carver is more appealing to me, will never be a speed demon so aim will be 100% technique. I do not venture off the hard stuff so strictly a piste ski would do, I also have some moguls to tackle in my fav runs and I get morning ice in the last third of the season.

I know I need to pick up a ski that is one or two levels above my ability to compensate for my extra weight and it needs to be pretty strong/heavy. I have had a hell of a job figuring the right ski to buy, i am trying to stray away from SL ones as I think they might be too playful & fast for my ability. Intermediate to advance ones are probably too soft so trying to choose a 2nd or a firm 3rd level SL or a SL/GS hybrid. I am also staying away from wider all mountain ones as I probably keep the Blackeyes for early season and heavy snow days (its got an 81 waist) so hoping to keep it between the 70-76 range. These have been my consideration;

Stockli Laser SC ..... Front runner
Volkl Racetiger SC UVO
Volkl Code speedwall S / L
Fischer Progressor 900
Dynastar CR 74 Pro R20 Racing
Head i.supershape speed

Also need to figure out the right boot flex to go for too (110-120?). I will be seeing a proper boot fitter (one of the best in UK is near me) but will be good to hear from others in same boots - I do not have the possibility to test or hire skis either. Would be great to hear from others who know what I am on about, thanks guys.
post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 
Sorry chaps, 110kg = 232 pounds & 193cm = 6'4"
post #3 of 11

Not to burst your bubble, but 110kg converts to 242 lbs. Need to cut back a few more calories to get down to 232 lbs.  Just being a wise asss.

 

I can help, I am 113 kg's and 193 cm. I would rate myself as expert level.  

 

I think your Stockli laser is a very good choice. You want something in the 185 cm length. don't go below 180 cm. I love race skis, my favorites are the race stock versions, meaning the stiffest ones available. You have the size for them, but at your skill level, I would not recommend them. They have to have proper technique and speed, or they will fight you.

 

Your Nomads are not enough ski for you, you are correct. They will not hold on ice at our weight. I find this to be the case with a lot of skis that other good lighter skiers like.The fishers and Head's would work well. I have tried Head Rev skis and find them too soft and not enough ski for me, although they don't do anything bad, just not enough ski. The supershape speed would be better. A ski I really liked was the Blizzard Brahma. I skied it in 180 cm and it was not too short. I would buy it for me in 188 cm, but you could ski either length. The 180 would be better for shorter turns. Blizzard has a narrower version of the Brahma out now, it might work for you as well. The wider version is the bonifide which you could ski for soft snow if desired. The Brahma is very forgiving at our weight and it works for an all around ski. You will soon sell your Nomads once you get the proper ski for you.

 

I would not suggest a ski 2-3 levels above your ability. 1 or 2 only. The key here is a forgiving ski to allow for varied technique. You DO want a stiff ski, however, with 2 sheets of metal in it. Stockli makes those type of skis, Kastle makes them, and Blizzard makes them. Actually most companies make them, just have to find the right model. I re-educated myself about 4 years ago, and it was a daunting task. One other suggestion is the Nordica FireArrow ski, EDT version is super stiff, the non-EDT is much easier to flex and ski. I have not skied it, but I would guess you could handle the EDT OK. It is not the most forgiving ski, however. A ski that most lighter people say is too much or overpowering, is just right for us. 

 

Boot flex:   this one is easy, you want 130 flex. Don't go lower. For your (our) weight that is the right stiffness. I ski in a RS140 Lange boot and really like it. It is stiff though in cold weather. I would not recommend the 140 stiffness for you, unless you want to go really fast or do some racing.

 

One last suggestion, join the Real Skiers website and you will find a wealth of information and can get email advice from the owners. Their input combined with input from this site will guide you to a good choice.


Edited by bttocs - 1/7/15 at 9:14am
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
The moment I sent the post I figured my error but could not find the "edit" button. Anyway it seems I have dropped a few and am now down to 237 - not that it makes a difference to the grand scale of things except verify the effort I put into my 70 flex boots & blackeye skis on the few black runs I did, man they are hard work. It's good to know that its not just all down to my Hiatus from skiing.

I actually did consider Nordica Fire Arrow 76 TI as well as the 78 version of Dyna but list was just getting too long. What is the difference between EDT & Ti?

I was going to address height later but you are right, it is part of the process - top of the range SL's are all 170 or less & most 2nd tier SL skis are not done over 175 whereas I was initially looking for 180 which means a 3rd tier - that's why Laser SC topped the list as it was a bit longer than norm at 177 even the Nordica FA only goes up to 176.Obviously you have enough power & skill to drive a stiff 18X ski but I do wonder if its better for me to start with 175-180 for now till I build up some knee strength & gain a bit more skill, I guess degree of stiffness has a bearing on length too.
post #5 of 11
So you have the Blackeye in 181cm. I would get much better boots and keep those skis until you take a few lesson's and improve and gain confidence. Then look at skis.

If you don't need the latest skis, check out www.skiessentials.com they are a sponsor here, and have great prices on new and last years and older skis.

boots are the most important part.
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiatus View Post

The moment I sent the post I figured my error but could not find the "edit" button. Anyway it seems I have dropped a few and am now down to 237 - not that it makes a difference to the grand scale of things except verify the effort I put into my 70 flex boots & blackeye skis on the few black runs I did, man they are hard work. It's good to know that its not just all down to my Hiatus from skiing.
[snip]

Mod note: the Edit function is not enabled for brand new members.  Later on you'll be able to edit for a short period.  A Passholder can edit anytime.

post #7 of 11

Off the top of my head, I am not sure what the difference in the FA skis are, I think it is the sheets of metal, or the high tech flex thingamabob built into the ski. Maybe someone else is up on it.

 

On black runs, you will experience the short comings of a soft ski for a big guy. I predict lots of sideways sliding due to lack of edge hold. Maybe some vibration and unstable feeling as well.

 

I actually have a pair of Rossi Slant Nose slalom skis in 175 cm. They are not race stock, but second tier as you call them. They are a couple of years old and are the stiffest skis I own. They made them very stiff the year I bought and I would say are the only pair of skies that are actually a little too stiff for me. A good race stock slalom ski in 175 cm would work for you. If the second tiers are significantly softer, then I would advise against them. If the skis are more like 15-20m radius, I guess you would call them front side carvers, then you want to be around 185 cm length.

post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bttocs View Post
 

On black runs, you will experience the short comings of a soft ski for a big guy. I predict lots of sideways sliding due to lack of edge hold. Maybe some vibration and unstable feeling as well.

 

 

Been there, done that!  I've managed to coax unsuitably soft (either in flex or torsional rigidity) skis through tougher runs and tough conditions, but I've learned the hard way that a nice solid ski and boots make life so much more pleasant.  

post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
I agree common sense would be to fix the shoe problem first but due to logistics I only have the option of getting new skis now - anyways I have a car quiver & a bike quiver so already have the disease!

Ok checked Nordica site & EDT seems to have 2 x Ti sheets whereas Ti only has one (sintered), result seems to be enhanced torsional rigidity but also other difference is the waist, 84 vs 76 ... Not sure I want or need to go above 76. What would be the real life on-piste differences between 84 & something like a 72? I assume former would provide more stability & better in soft snow whereas the latter would be more manueverable & playful but would be great to have real life comparison. One concern is being locked into one mode of play - ie the ski dictating the pace & arc which I feel would be detrimental to my progress in the long run.
post #10 of 11

Some skis are very stiff torsionally and that is important for edge hold for a big guy (Clyde). You can tell this by just trying to twist the ski by hand. Grab the tip and the waist and twist. If you haven't developed expert skills yet, I would think you want a ski with less sensitive tip, so it doesn't "over-react" to small erroneous movements. Ski's such as head, Kastle, Blizzard Brahma, and others are like this. Another would be the Rossi E88 or a narrower version. Usually, this type of ski has a slightly longer turn radius. I think the Nordica Fire Arrows are NOT like this, but the rest of the ski is built for a clyde. 

 

Another forgiving ski I have not skied but gets good reviews is the K2 front side groomer, can't remember the name. It might be a little under built for you, though.

 

To answer your question, I think the biggest difference you will feel on a 80ish versus 70ish is stability in soft, man made snow. My narrow skis sink a bit in man made and get grabbed by the snow. Once I get close to 100 mm, I stay on top of the snow and no more grabbing. The Brahma went through man made clumpy snow like it wasn't even there. It tracked well and smooth from ice to soft clumps and back again.  Ahhhh, have to love New England snow conditions.

post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Ok finally pulled the trigger on a Laser SC @ 177 (longest size), I had a good deal on it (less 25% MSRP) and other models failed to shine due to following reasons.

Volkl Racetiger SC UVO - max size is 175 also a little concerned that it is cheaper than the Code models so can't be a proper 2nd tier model.
Volkl Code speedwall S / L - have read a few really good reviews on the L model in particular and might have gone for this if I didn't have a good deal on the Stockli - size goes to 180 which is a bonus.
Fischer Progressor 900 - only read and heard good things but not sure if its sturdy enough to perform the same for a heavy skier.
Dynastar CR 74 Pro R20 Racing - read more on the 78 model which is a lot more money so difference has to be more than 4mm, 78 sounds like a better bet for a Clydesdale but then it goes over my max 76 waist and it seems to be more suited to GS style than SL.
Head i.supershape speed - by all accounts they are light, so while a good bet for an average skier perhaps it might get overwhelmed by me.
Nordica Fire Arrow 76 TI & 86 EDT - Nordica is the only company that provides an indirect stiffness reference for all its models by quoting weight per unit length, FA 76 Ti is missing the double metal sheets of 86 EDT and weighs 4.5 g/sq.cm against 86EDT 5.2. Reviews are somewhat mixed with some expressing lack of playfulness but then I guess you can't have it all. I will certainly look into replacing my Blackeyes with either one of the FA's or the Dynastar - I do have a soft spot for Dynastar as my first proper ski was an early 90's Dynastar course SL in 197 length - we spent 4 years together till I busted my knee on a mogul run.

It will be a couple of weeks till I get to try out the SC and for sure will report back.
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