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Skis feel long, heavy and stiff in moguls

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

I (finally) upgraded! Bought myself a brand new pair of Elan Ripstick (170cm). My old skis are 150 cms and almost 15 years old, frontside/all-mountain Volkl.

 

I had a chance to try the new ones out over the weekend. It's really good for most of what I enjoy doing, which is zipping down groomed trails. Turns were crispy and clean. I was moving fast and in control. It was awesome!

 

But when I tried the moguls with them I was less than impressed. I was boucing around, not being able to turn as efficiently and having a hard time getting my skis together when I wiped out. Is this natural or just growing pain?

post #2 of 22

It's both natural and growing pains. You switched from a 15 year old 150cm ski to a very modern 170cm frontside carving ski, it's going to take some time to get accustomed to the new ski, but they will always be 'more ski' in ungroomed conditions.

post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thanks. I guess I'll have to buy another pair just for moguls ;)

post #4 of 22
For your weight and height (i assume 5 ft and 120 lbs), 170 should be perfect in bumps.
I don't know the ski, but you dont want a lot of shape in bumps.
post #5 of 22

170 will be fine.  I was under 100 pounds when I was 15 and skied a 175cm in the bumps.  Do some drills to get then going side to side under you quicker in the bumps.  Funnel drill (start at the top with big wide long radius turns and make them tighter and tighter until you are turning as fast as you can possible turn back and forth then open it back up wide.  Do that over and over.  Hop turns also help get you acclimated to longer skis as you grow, but the funnel drills are probably the best for the challenge of being behind in the bumps due to moving up to bigger (and better) skis. 

post #6 of 22

Ripstick Fusion

Description: 
Made to race, the Elan RIPSTICK is the best friend a devoted Ski Cross expert could have. Supported by the World Cup proven Left & Right construction, this ski features Power Spine technology for better edge grip and torsional stability and our Amphibio® Profile which delivers faster turning performance and superior control on jumps and parabolic turns.

Technology: 
Amphibio, Powerspine, RST sidewall, Laminated Woodcore, Dual Ti

Specs:

  • BINDING: ELX 12.0 Fusion Wht/Grn
  • RECOMMENDED LENGTH: 0 / +10
  • TERRAIN: 
    RipStick-race-(2).jpg
  • SKIING LEVEL: 
    RipStick-race-(1).jpg
     
LENGTH / RADIUS GEOMETRY (mm)
 
170 cm / 16.8 m 114 / 70 / 99
176 cm / 17.8 m 114 / 70 / 99
182 cm / 19.8 m 114 / 70 / 99
186 cm / 21 m 114 / 70 / 99

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ski Specifications

Ski Gear Intended Use: Race
Type: Race Skis
Bindings Included: Yes
What Binding is Included?: ELX 12
Binding DIN: 4-12
Binding Weight Range: 95-265lbs.
Waist Width: 70mm
Tip/Waist/Tail Widths: 114/70/99mm (@ 176cm)
Tail Profile: Flat
Rocker: Tip Rocker/Camber
Flex: Stiff
Turn Radius: 16-20
Actual Turn Radius @ Specified Length: 17.8m (@ 176cm)
Construction Type: Sidewall
Core Material: Wood w/ Metal Laminate
Base Material: Sintered
Used: No
Titanium: Yes
Special Features: Power Spine
Special Features: RST
Warranty: One Year
Skill Range: Advanced-Pro
Model Year: 2013
Model Number: 5A1J83-182
Product ID: 369101

 

So I just looked at some specs about this ski.  They are listed as "race" skis, whose flex is "stiff," and torsionally stiff.

Thus, difficult to bend in the bumps, unless perhaps you weigh a ton.  The turn radius on the 170s is 16.8 meters, which

given the ski's torsional profile will matter in short turns on uneven terrain.

 

You might find a softer ski easier for this purpose. 


Edited by LiquidFeet - 12/31/14 at 3:15pm
post #7 of 22

^^^^ Seems to match the thread title pretty well...

post #8 of 22

Part of the problem is you are going from a soft old short ski to a ski you just can't muscle around, but that is only part of the problem.  When you get used to them and learn how to command them they will feel great and be manageable in bumps.  However, those skis will always feel a little too stiff and too locked into their path for bumps. 

 

If bumps are your thing, you will want to get a different pair of skis just for bumps.

post #9 of 22
Every ski is going to have compromises somewhere.
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ki8um View Post
 

I (finally) upgraded! Bought myself a brand new pair of Elan Ripstick (170cm). My old skis are 150 cms and almost 15 years old, frontside/all-mountain Volkl.

 

I had a chance to try the new ones out over the weekend. It's really good for most of what I enjoy doing, which is zipping down groomed trails. Turns were crispy and clean. I was moving fast and in control. It was awesome!

 

But when I tried the moguls with them I was less than impressed. I was boucing around, not being able to turn as efficiently and having a hard time getting my skis together when I wiped out. Is this natural or just growing pain?

 

This ski is a ski that wants to stay locked in to a turn..  This is also a heavier ski thanks to the metal.. which is what helps it hold so well for cruising groomers fast.  However, you'll need stronger chops to rip bumps on them as you have noticed.  Also, the metal layer might bend and stay bent if you really slam the bumps on them. 

post #11 of 22

So, you're all convinced the problem is the arrow, huh?

post #12 of 22
In this case it is at least partially the arrow. Can those skis ski the bumps? Yup. But they will feel as described in the title of the thread. They are designed for racing. This model from Elan is marketed to Ski Cross. When you read the specs on it, you will see they are identical to the ski Elan markets to Master Racers but with a different top sheet.

I bought this same ski this season in 176 cm and hope to debut them this weekend (first race is Wednesday biggrin.gif ). I would never have considered it for bumps.

Wrong arrow but the right archer can still make the shot.
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the comments. I'm a little taller and weigh a little more. Lol! 5'8" 140lbs. I'm sure the archer has a lot to do with it and I also knew that bumps wouldn't be a bed of roses which they never are, at least for me smile.gif
With some luck and expert advise I might still be able percevere. I'll try to stay clear of the VW sized bumps however. I really like these skis for what they do best and I wouldn't wanna jeopardize that.
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ki8um View Post

Thanks for the comments. I'm a little taller and weigh a little more. Lol! 5'8" 140lbs. I'm sure the archer has a lot to do with it and I also knew that bumps wouldn't be a bed of roses which they never are, at least for me smile.gif
With some luck and expert advise I might still be able percevere. I'll try to stay clear of the VW sized bumps however. I really like these skis for what they do best and I wouldn't wanna jeopardize that.

When it comes to skis and bumps, remember there has been a whole life time of skiing where a short ski in the bumps were quite a bit longer than what you're on. They'll work I the bumps, but there are plenty of other choices.

I'm planning on seeing how they work in the rain today. Should have brought them out yesterday.
Ken
post #15 of 22

A lot depends on the bumps, specifically who made them and how long their skis were.

Bump fields have a natural wavelength, and ones that are more spread out will work better with longer skis.  I actually prefer long, softer skis (188 cm) in the bumps, but they can be a challenge in short choppy moguls.

Yesterday, for a change, I used real slalom skis (166 cm, stiff, with a 13 m sidecut radius) in the bumps, and the experience was quite different.  Getting them around in was easier in choppy moguls, but smearing, bridging irregularities and trusting them to ride up over in bigger, longer bumps were harder. It took me most of the day to get comfortable enough to do bumps at my normal speed.

The reason sidecut matters is that it makes it more likely that one ski will hook up unexpectedly and turn itself in a different direction than the other one.

 

So basically I am agreeing with most everyone else.  Those skis can be skied in the bumps, but they will make it harder than it has to be.  Softer skis with less sidecut and a length you are comfortable with will be easier.

post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks mdf. That's a good point about the mogul design.
L&AirC, those are some nice skis. Of course, I have only tried all-mountain skis prior to these. I was skiing some beginner blue bumps (not real moguls) yesterday and I was able to carve through them effortlessly. The skis were real steady.
post #17 of 22

It's all relative.  My 13 m radius 165 cm Fischer WC (0.5 degree base bevel) and my 23-ish m m radius 190c m Volant (1 degree base bevel) skis are about equally proficient in bumps, but both are a heck of a lot better in bumps than my 70-ish m radius  208 cm (0.5 degree base bevel) Kaestle SGs.  My best "bump skis" are my 23 ish 188 cm Volkl P50 F1 Energy, due to their relatively flexibility.   For me mid 20 m radius, 1 degree base bevel and enough flexibility to conform to the snow surface instead of bridging the troughs is what makes a good bump ski.  Your ski has too short a radius and is too stiff, but it could be much worse.

 

BTW I suck at bumps; I used to consider all bumps an annoyance and pestilance put on perfectly good steep pitches by folks who just didn't have the balls to ski fast, but wanted to be able to brag about skiing steeps.  Short choppy bumps made for kids are still a bit of annoyance.


Edited by Ghost - 1/4/15 at 2:11pm
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
I had to look up what base bevel meant smile.gif
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

It's all relative.  My 13 m radius 165 cm Fischer WC (0.5 degree base bevel) and my 23-ish m m radius 190c m Volant (1 degree base bevel) skis are about equally proficient in bumps, but both are a heck of a lot better in bumps than my 70-ish m radius  208 cm (0.5 degree base bevel) Kaestle SGs.  My best "bump skis" are my 23 ish 188 cm Volkl P50 F1 Energy, due to there relatively flexibility.   For me mid 20 m radius, 1 degree base bevel and enough flexibility to conform to the snow surface instead of bridging the troughs is what makes a good bump ski.  Your ski has too short a radius and is too stiff, but it could be much worse.

 

BTW I suck at bumps; I used to consider all bumps an annoyance and pestilance put on perfectly good steep pitches by folks who just didn't have the balls to ski fast, but wanted to be able to brag about skiing steeps.  Short choppy bumps made for kids are still a bit of annoyance.

Boy can I relate to this post. I remember the days out skiing with my Fischer  210 WC GS skis, complete with riser plates trying to get thru a bump field.  But yeah, you're right. The spacing of the bumps becomes relevant because nobody is skiing on 200's these day. 

 

>>>>"Short choppy bumps made for kids are still a bit of annoyance."

+1 on that. They take up perfectly good cruising space. Double that for terrain parks in smaller areas. 

post #20 of 22
Actually I think the main cause of short choppy bumps is over-terrained skiers.

Ghost's description of his preferred bump ski is pretty close to mine, for all but the choppiest ones. And I will just deal with those rather than gearing up for them.
post #21 of 22

One of my favorite runs is Humboldt Draw at Telluride. We call it the "baby bump" run. The bumps are made by rug rats in ski school and are painfully tight. They, of course, have a grand time, as the pitch is very moderate. When I am on that side of the mountain, I like to take at least one run at them to see if my game is on for that day. My friends think I am a masochist.

post #22 of 22

We had our groomer seed a slope with tiny bumps especially for the kids.  It wasn't so bad; worst case scenario if you got out of step, you could just finish the run with a figure 11 :D .  It wasn't steep, it wasn't long and the bumps weren't big.

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