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156cm Head Supershape Rally vs 167 Elan Amphibio waveflex 12, any opinions

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I've narrowed it down to these two models. It's not an ideal apples-to-apples choice, but both should work for 80% firm groomers and 20% cut-up soft snow on-piste skiing at moderate to faster recreational speeds..

I'm going to source a new ski for my 25 year old daughter who lives in Milan, Italy. She is an athletic, 140 lbs and 5'5". Both the Head and the Elan are available locally, the Head is about $125 more than the Elan, the Elan can be had for $425. She currently has a 169cm Atomic Crimson and a 165cm Fisher RX9. She wants to keep the Atomic for all mountain skiing. However, the the RX9 is not ideal as a short turn carver on ice, and I'm seeking recommendations for a short radius ski for icy conditions on steeper big mountain slopes. The ski needs to be versatile enough for some mogals and some softer snow, but the ski will see carved turns on firm snow 80% of the time. She is skiing every month and travels to Courchevel, Monte Rosa, and Saalbach.

I'm thinking that the longer length of the Elan makes this ski as stable and a little more versatile in chopped up snow as the shorter Head.

Or, is the Head just in an altogether higher league than the more cruiser oriented Elan?
Edited by WILDCAT - 12/31/14 at 7:07am
post #2 of 15

Between those two, I would say the Elan, but why not a shorter Elan, and why not a Head SS Magnum?

How much does she weigh?

post #3 of 15

I'll chime in here just because I am following this over from your other related thread, in which you say she is 5' 5", as I recall.

 

I would tend to think there is a lot of overlap between the Amphibio and the Crimson. If you're going to have two skis, they might as well cover as broad a spectrum as possible. 167 is top-of-head height for her. That can be a lot of ski on a groomer, just like the RX9, albeit with more shape and possibly softer flex.If she is out on an off-piste or soft snow day where she needs stability, she will be on the Crimson. If she is on hard-surfaced groomers it will be more fun to be on a shorter, turnier ski. My two cents.

 

Edit: See Ghost beat me to it. I agree with him. It's about the length. 160ish for a groomer ski for her, I would think.

post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi Ghost and canoe,

She is 140 lbs and is muscular and athletic. She has never skied anything shorter than a 165 since grade school. I agree that 167cm is potentially to long.

These are discounted skies sold locally in Italy. A 160cm might be worth searching for, but finding discounted gear in Europe is very challenging.

Is the 156cm Rally to short? She is a fast skier, but is more of a sane, recreational skier than a speed demon.
post #5 of 15

Check the flex of the Elan. I am not that familiar with the ski but I know sometimes when you get down to a smaller sized ski that has a plate on it, the flex can get unusually stiff. I am not saying that the Elan will do that but check it, I know the Head still flex well in the shorter lengths. 

post #6 of 15

Salesman:  I will sell you this white elephant for $5000.

Customer:  That's a good price, but I don't need a white elephant.  What the heck would I need a white elephant for?

Salesman: OK, how about two white elephants for the sale price of one: Two Elephants for $5000.

Customer OK, that's a great bargain.  SOLD!

 

If the ski is not to be a white elephant, it needs to be designed for making short turns on icy slopes.  Short turning skis are skied shorter.  160 cm would suit her better.  width should also be smaller.  A bargain price on an inappropriate ski is no bargain.  It would only detract from her enjoyment.  Better she find a used RX8 or similar to complement her RX9.

 

Given her weight I'm changing my answer to the SS Ralley, althouth it has problems too:right length, but too wide and too much rocker (IMHO of course).

post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post


If the ski is not to be a white elephant, it needs to be designed for making short turns on icy slopes.  Short turning skis are skied shorter.  160 cm would suit her better.  width should also be smaller.  A bargain price on an inappropriate ski is no bargain.  It would only detract from her enjoyment.  Better she find a used RX8 or similar to complement her RX9.

Given her weight I'm changing my answer to the SS Ralley, althouth it has problems too:right length, but too wide and too much rocker (IMHO of course).

The plan is to replace the RX9 with a ski with a tighter turning radius, in the 12 to 14.5 meter range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Check the flex of the Elan. I am not that familiar with the ski but I know sometimes when you get down to a smaller sized ski that has a plate on it, the flex can get unusually stiff. I am not saying that the Elan will do that but check it, I know the Head still flex well in the shorter lengths. 

Yes, I would like to see how much running length these skis have, rocketed tips and slightly flaired tails could reduce the length on these skis substantially.
post #8 of 15

Phil has spent a lot of time on the Rally. I have a couple of runs on it. I did not think it skied noticeably short or that the rocker was significant or problematic in any way. Nor did it ski like a wide ski. Phil, you agree?

 

If you go any narrower, with less rocker, you are basically going to a consumer SL ski, which is where we started in the other thread. The Rally will be a little more versatile. Ghost is a known Puritan about these things; I'm guessing your daughter is not. Does the guy selling the Rally also have the 163 on hand? 

post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Phil has spent a lot of time on the Rally. I have a couple of runs on it. I did not think it skied noticeably short or that the rocker was significant or problematic in any way. Nor did it ski like a wide ski. Phil, you agree?

If you go any narrower, with less rocker, you are basically going to a consumer SL ski, which is where we started in the other thread. The Rally will be a little more versatile. Ghost is a known Puritan about these things; I'm guessing your daughter is not. Does the guy selling the Rally also have the 163 on hand? 

Yes, but with a huge price jump.

My original plan was to buy a ski here in the U.S. and bring it over during the spring. Skis are discounted in the U.S., but almost never in Italy. I might need to go back to sourcing the ski here to find the perfect size at a moderate price.
post #10 of 15
There is no perfect size. Seems to me she could probably be happy on the 156 or the 163. Just different. Interested in what Phil says.
post #11 of 15

Since she is looking for a mostly hard snow groomer ski I might suggest a 160cm consumer (non-fis) slalom ski. Great choice for carving. Still flex able enough for some moguls and light soft snow conditions.  Just took a peak at the E-bay Germany site. Since she is already in Europe it maybe worth it to check out the E-bay euro sites as quite a few Head isl (non-fis) and Elan Sl and Slx (non-fis) models in 160cm lengths are available at reasonable prices. Low shipping prices within Europe.

post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMD View Post

Since she is looking for a mostly hard snow groomer ski I might suggest a 160cm consumer (non-fis) slalom ski. Great choice for carving. Still flex able enough for some moguls and light soft snow conditions.  Just took a peak at the E-bay Germany site. Since she is already in Europe it maybe worth it to check out the E-bay euro sites as quite a few Head isl (non-fis) and Elan Sl and Slx (non-fis) models in 160cm lengths are available at reasonable prices. Low shipping prices within Europe.

This is going to be the best solution. I can non-FIS Slalom Race-carvers in a 160 length in Germany and the strong dollar makes the purchase economical.
post #13 of 15

I'll just chime in and say the Rally is the funnest ski I've owned in a while. Can make short turns, but is still quiet as speeds ramp up. Lot of fun in Stowe when it's rock hard, not as demanding as a true slalom ski. YMMV (I'm 6' 190 on the 177cm)

post #14 of 15

Both are great skis. The WF12 feels a touch more stable and damp, a little more snap in the tail. Rally is a bit lighter feeling, quicker, a touch less heft.  I loved both, the WF12 in 174cm I had as a frontside carver for a few months, sick ride.  I also love the Rally, I am more between sizes on that one, need a 173-174 as well.  My feeling is for how I ski, typically high speed, looking for GS dampness in a smaller radius ski, the WF12 is the better solution.  But the Rally is sweet too, just not as suited to what I am looking for in a ski like this. The WF12 felt quite similar to my Blizzard 800s and also my Elan SLX WF 174cm carvers.  I like that feel in a ski.  

post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

Both are great skis. The WF12 feels a touch more stable and damp, a little more snap in the tail. Rally is a bit lighter feeling, quicker, a touch less heft.  I loved both, the WF12 in 174cm I had as a frontside carver for a few months, sick ride.  I also love the Rally, I am more between sizes on that one, need a 173-174 as well.  My feeling is for how I ski, typically high speed, looking for GS dampness in a smaller radius ski, the WF12 is the better solution.  But the Rally is sweet too, just not as suited to what I am looking for in a ski like this. The WF12 felt quite similar to my Blizzard 800s and also my Elan SLX WF 174cm carvers.  I like that feel in a ski.  

Hi Scott!

I'm targeting the 160cm size, a little longer for a cruiser ski, or a little shorter for for a citizen-race SL ski like the Elan SLX or Atomic Redster SL.

What do you think of the Fischer Progressor 900 or 800 in a 160? It's a popular ski on Ski Diva. My daughter doesn't need an all-mountain ski, she has the Crimson, but even on-piste skiers need to ski moguls and some cut-up crud.

Is the Progressor a versatile carver? Is the 160cm Progressor flexible enough for a 135 lbs skier in your opinion? How about the Elan SLX?
Edited by WILDCAT - 1/4/15 at 5:05pm
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › 156cm Head Supershape Rally vs 167 Elan Amphibio waveflex 12, any opinions