or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Race Training, Coming to Ski School near you.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Race Training, Coming to Ski School near you.

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Found this interesting.  This ski school spending a day working on USSA based skills training.  Drills we talk about a lot here at Epic, but seems to be rather foreign to the instructors at Sun Valley.  Obviously from the attempted executions not anything they've spent time learning to do.  This can only be a good thing, for instructors and students alike.  Hope it turns into a trend.

 

post #2 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
 

Found this interesting.  This ski school spending a day working on USSA based skills training.  Drills we talk about a lot here at Epic, but seems to be rather foreign to the instructors at Sun Valley.  Obviously from the attempted executions not anything they've spent time learning to do.  This can only be a good thing, for instructors and students alike.  Hope it turns into a trend.

 

 

Uh, this looks like any in-house or PSIA instructor clinic on any mountain anywhere in the United States. Its not race training. Its drilling. Which every instructor does ad nauseam. This isn't something that you can hope will become a trend. Its something that is the reality at ski schools everywhere. 

 

I'm curious where your coaching background is from, if this is in any way novel to you. 

post #3 of 18
What's the USSA part? I'm like the famous worst student in the world and have done all of these over the last forty odd years at some point. I notice some of the names sound racy with White Pass and Schlopy in there, and maybe my cognition of the name of the drill is influenced by having had a racer, but I didn't see anything new, either. I enjoyed the pivot slip last year myself. Great fun. Falling leaf? Brings me back to lessons twenty years ago from Club Med. White Pass? A couple decades ago at Camelback.

I'm wondering why they made a video?
post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

 

Uh, this looks like any in-house or PSIA instructor clinic on any mountain anywhere in the United States. Its not race training. Its drilling. Which every instructor does ad nauseam. This isn't something that you can hope will become a trend. Its something that is the reality at ski schools everywhere. 

 

I'm curious where your coaching background is from, if this is in any way novel to you. 

 

I'll rebound the question to you.  Where do you coach that race training is not working on skill development drills?  It sure is in my world.  Programs that spend the vast majority of their training time just bashing gates are doing their athletes a grave injustice.  

 

No, this is not "novel to me".  It's the same stuff I did for 30 years, training my athletes.  I was just a bit surprised to see that in this clinic it was being introduced as novel, as coming from the race training world, and how much the instructors were struggling with them.  Looked like it was likely the first time they'd tried them.

post #5 of 18
If this is a USSA influence, then grab the torches and pitchforks to run USSA out of town. Silver bullets and wooden stakes too! These skiers are in fear of their skis and they exhibit strikingly bad performance at the drills. Fie on USSA, Rxx Kxxx, and Mxxxxx Rxxxx.
post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

What's the USSA part? I'm like the famous worst student in the world and have done all of these over the last forty odd years at some point. I notice some of the names sound racy with White Pass and Schlopy in there, and maybe my cognition of the name of the drill is influenced by having had a racer, but I didn't see anything new, either. I enjoyed the pivot slip last year myself. Great fun. Falling leaf? Brings me back to lessons twenty years ago from Club Med. White Pass? A couple decades ago at Camelback.

I'm wondering why they made a video?

 

The USSA part is the theme of the clinic.  I think they threw the pivot slips in there, just because it's a PSIA cornerstone drill, and they wanted to do something the participants had worked on endlessly, so they could experience a bit of success to go along with the struggles.  Just a guess.  

 

Did you catch the explanation of the origin of the Whitepass  Lean?  Poor girl was really slinging it.  :D

 

I'm guessing this clinic was spawned by the recent attempts to bring USSA and PSIA together. 


Edited by Rick - 12/31/14 at 8:24am
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

If this is a USSA influence, then grab the torches and pitchforks to run USSA out of town. Silver bullets and wooden stakes too! These skiers are in fear of their skis and they exhibit strikingly bad performance at the drills. Fie on USSA, Rxx Kxxx, and Mxxxxx Rxxxx.

Sharpedges, I'm not following you.  Their challenged performance at these drills was not USSA's doing.  ????

post #8 of 18
Guys, give the skiers in the vid a break. Looks like a typical mix of different levels. Not everyone in the SS is an accomplished ex-racer/former bump champ/big mountain god/dcl/trainer/ or otherwise top of the food chain type. These drills make all skiers better, but are even more important for aspiring L2/L3 candidates. Who here hasn't sucked at one drill or another the first time they tried it? Who here doesn't occasionally 'over think' during a drill? 98% will say 'yep, I have!' The other 2% are liars. I've seen plenty of racers and race coaches 'suck' at these as well, and that's the point... to get better, no?

smile.gif
Edited by markojp - 12/31/14 at 9:09am
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
 

 

I'll rebound the question to you.  Where do you coach that race training is not working on skill development drills?  It sure is in my world.  Programs that spend the vast majority of their training time just bashing gates are doing their athletes a grave injustice.  

 

No, this is not "novel to me".  It's the same stuff I did for 30 years, training my athletes.  I was just a bit surprised to see that in this clinic it was being introduced as novel, as coming from the race training world, and how much the instructors were struggling with them.  Looked like it was likely the first time they'd tried them.

 

The important part is highlighted above. Everything in the video is skill development. Not race specific training, but general skiing skills. Of course you do skills development when you're race training. It doesn't make it the exclusive province of racing. Hell, at one point the clinician asks 'where would you use this?' and somebody answers 'moguls'. Not racing. 

 

Frankly, you display the typical racer mindset, in which racing is paramount, and everything else exists to support racing, or is secondary or inferior to racing. Drilling is part of learning, whether you spend any time in gates or not. 

 

And the clinic group looks to be comprised largely of fairly new/ inexperienced instructors. If they shot this with the 5+year veteran clinic group, it would look very different. We don't need highly technical proficiency from our first year instructors. That comes along the way. 

post #10 of 18
I guess I still don't get the 'USSA does X, PSIA y, and whatever else is 'z'. Our SS has no direct connection to USSA, yet Ive taught or done most of the 'USSA' drills with peers or students at some point. Bottom line is, steal anything and everything that makes us better skiers from whatever source, whenever. The idea of 'authorship/ownership' of a drill is silly at this point in history. Thinking of it as 'open source' is a better way forward.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

 

The important part is highlighted above. Everything in the video is skill development. Not race specific training, but general skiing skills. Of course you do skills development when you're race training. It doesn't make it the exclusive province of racing. Hell, at one point the clinician asks 'where would you use this?' and somebody answers 'moguls'. Not racing. 

 

Frankly, you display the typical racer mindset, in which racing is paramount, and everything else exists to support racing, or is secondary or inferior to racing. Drilling is part of learning, whether you spend any time in gates or not. 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you've got a chip on your shoulder when it comes to racing, chill out with the defensiveness.  

 

In my mind race training is only superior in the fact that we generally get much more time to work with our students.  I'm talking several hours a week, every week, for several years.  In my program it was 6 days a week, a minimum of 3 hours a day.  Instructors just don't have that luxury.  But the skills needed to become a great recreational skier are the exact same needed to become a successful racer.  That's why my focus has now become directed at giving recreational skiers a means to access the comprehensive training we're able to do in racing without having to mortgage the house.  

post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Guys, give the skiers in the vid a break. Looks like a typical mix of different levels. Not everyone in the SS is an accomplished ex-racer/former bump champ/big mountain god/dcl/trainer/ or otherwise top of the food chain type. These drills make all skiers better, but are even more important for aspiring L2/L3 candidates. Who here hasn't sucked at one drill or another the first time they tried it? Who here doesn't occasionally 'over think' during a drill? 98% will say 'yep, I have!' The other 2% are liars. I've seen plenty of racers and race coaches 'suck' at these as well, and that's the point... to get better, no?

smile.gif

 

 

Marko, I suspect you're right that these are lower level instructors, still young in their learning curve.  And like I said earlier, I was surprised it all seemed so new to them, as we have a dusting of instructors here from across the country, and these drills get talked about regularly.  I was surprised because I wouldn't deem Sun Valley as a hole in the wall resort, and here they were coining their clinic "USSA Training", like the stuff was new to them or something.  

post #13 of 18

Being that many weren't in uniform, it  looked like an experienced new-hire clinic.

post #14 of 18
I'll just add that we do these same drills on ski patrol as well. In fact, I did many of them last night!! They are a daily happening this time of year at our hill.
post #15 of 18

For the record, I've taken far more than my fair share of lessons from various PSIA-affiliated instructors.  I've never been formally involved in a race program.  I am not a currently practicing instructor.

 

I have, at various times, been introduced to all of the drills shown in Rick's video.  My skill level at doing the various highlighted drills varies from "pretty good" to "not so good".  I've never been much of a "doing drills" type of guy, although I do start practicing when my stubborn ass finally "sees the point".  I was first introduced to pivot slips seven or eight years ago; it wasn't until the past year or two that I bothered practicing them with any regularity though.

 

So while the students in the video demonstrated a variety of competences at the drills, I don't see that as meaning that this is the first time they've been introduced to the drill.

 

Depending on the full/part-time status of the students in the video, their number of years spent instructing, etc...  Not everybody has endless time or motivation to practice various drills.  Give these guys a break.

post #16 of 18
I don't understand the point of this thread. I've been instructing since 2009 and have been doing these drills since then. The only drill I don't remember specifically doing was the Fore Aft Tip Tail one. I've done the turns with either the Tip or Tail down and even neutral, but I don't remember doing both on one turn. Might have, don't remembe though.

As for the Instructors performance doing the drills, give me a break. Some posters here are making it sound like there are brand new instructors that never did a drill before or they were novice skiers. That isn't what I saw. I saw some pretty good skiing albeit it some might have been doing a drill for the first time.

As for the USSA PSIA thing; I've been to PSIA clinics and Race clinics lead by USSA coaches. They do the same drills. And I've been to Race camps where the long time racers and even race coaches (in attendance not leading) struggled with the drill just like everyone else might have. Usually, just like in the video, people get hung up on the timing of things and when the clinician wants you to do something. Many times it is caused because they move where they want you to do something in the turn (i.e.when you lift the outside ski in a progression).

I'm not sure what the intent of the video was other than advertising. It looks like it was a fun clinic Many of these aren't so much to train instructors as they are to remind them and to bring additional understanding. Keep in mind we watched an all day clinic in ten minutes and from those ten minutes are making judgement on what really happened in the other 8 hours.

Ken
post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

[snip]
I'm not sure what the intent of the video was other than advertising. It looks like it was a fun clinic Many of these aren't so much to train instructors as they are to remind them and to bring additional understanding. Keep in mind we watched an all day clinic in ten minutes and from those ten minutes are making judgement on what really happened in the other 8 hours.

Ken

Based on the note by the person who put the video on YouTube in 2013, she was a new instructor.  Does not seem like a video created by the ski school.

 

Published on Feb 3, 2013

Check out my latest video from my new job as a Sun Valley Ski Instructor. I attended a ski school clinic specifically designed around some fundamental USSA ski drills, sure to make anyone who tries them a better skier! Even if you are off the snow, this video is a fun one.

post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 

Based on the note by the person who put the video on YouTube in 2013, she was a new instructor.  Does not seem like a video created by the ski school.

 

Published on Feb 3, 2013

Check out my latest video from my new job as a Sun Valley Ski Instructor. I attended a ski school clinic specifically designed around some fundamental USSA ski drills, sure to make anyone who tries them a better skier! Even if you are off the snow, this video is a fun one.

 

Probably not.  The advertising was a guess on my part but the advertising could be of the part of the person behind the camera since her main occupation is that - "Fawn Films".  Could have just done it for fun and quite honestly, it is pretty good and the drills included are good ones and the demos are pretty good.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Race Training, Coming to Ski School near you.