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Fresh base hot wax cycles?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I am wondering about putting hot wax cycles into a fresh (post-stone grind) base after doing one or two hot scrapes. Are heat/cool or heat/cool/scrape steps most effective? I guess the gist of my question is can I hot wax, let the bases cool then repeat running my wax iron over to re-melt the wax and cooling the bases or does a scrape in between matter? Is heating the wax into the base the most important factor or is scraping off each hot wax cycle application and reapplying fresh wax again a necessary step before doing a final scrape and brush?

Or am I being silly and multiple wax cycles are even something I should worry about? FWIW, this is for purely recreational purposes. Thanks!
post #2 of 21
I'm not a fan of this method.

It's better to scrape/brush and reapply after first ironing.
post #3 of 21
The hot SCRAPING is to remove bits of base that could be lurking in the structure after the grind. If you are simply reheating, you may in fact be helping it get down further in the little grooves. You want to scrape the floating bits OUT, not work them in. After a few (3-4 depending on what's coming off), then a couple wax-scrape-brush cycles of your final wax.

Pre-season I go through at least six cycles of waxing of various purposes before I take them out. And they only get a grind every two years or so as I feel like I'm starting over with that base saturation again. My fastest skis are always the ones I've had the longest.
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post

I am wondering about putting hot wax cycles into a fresh (post-stone grind) base after doing one or two hot scrapes. Are heat/cool or heat/cool/scrape steps most effective? I guess the gist of my question is can I hot wax, let the bases cool then repeat running my wax iron over to re-melt the wax and cooling the bases or does a scrape in between matter? Is heating the wax into the base the most important factor or is scraping off each hot wax cycle application and reapplying fresh wax again a necessary step before doing a final scrape and brush?

Or am I being silly and multiple wax cycles are even something I should worry about? FWIW, this is for purely recreational purposes. Thanks!


Because you have a fresh grind, much scraping and brushing is going to be important to "break-in" the grind.  The wax will lubricate for those cycles of scraping and brushing.   The ski needs wax to be worked on.  Best is to let it cool well each time.  Scraping helps to smooth the highs of the structure.  Brushing helps to smooth the lows of the structure.

 

Once the grind is broken in after several scrape and brush cycles, then just leaving the wax on the ski and re-ironing it over and over without overheating the base is not a bad thing to do at all.  Wax penetration is a factor of time more than a factor of heat.  This is why Hot Boxing a ski is best for initial wax preparation of a ski.

 

Your first cycles need to be the softest waxes.  The soft wax molecules are smaller and will go deeper because they are smaller.  Then the harder waxes will adhere to the soft.  To only use hard wax in preparation is a mistake.  

 

You don't need to be a racer to benefit from a well prepared base.  It will last longer per wax and turn better.  It will not wear out as fast.

 

Hope that helps you.

post #5 of 21

re-heating is the lazy/cheap tuners way - I'll remind you of that when I'm passing you on the flats

post #6 of 21
How many people are you passing on the flats of a small hill in Ontario?

To each his own, I choose not to do multiple heat scrape cycles because I don't like throwing money away on wax when I'm just skiing for fun and not racing. I heat the wax 3-5 times with cooling time in between and then a scrape and brush at the end.

I'd rather spend my money on getting my kids out skiing and trips out wast.

Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

re-heating is the lazy/cheap tuners way - I'll remind you of that when I'm passing you on the flats
post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeC View Post

How many people are you passing on the flats of a small hill in Ontario?

To each his own, I choose not to do multiple heat scrape cycles because I don't like throwing money away on wax when I'm just skiing for fun and not racing. I heat the wax 3-5 times with cooling time in between and then a scrape and brush at the end.

I'd rather spend my money on getting my kids out skiing and trips out wI

good wax is $20 per 180g bar, what trips are you going on with all the money you saved?  Tremblant? New England?  hahahhaaha

post #8 of 21
Each step in tuning has a specific outcome. All of those toward the intended goal of a good ski day. Some people don't tune at all and have the time of their life. Others have their day ruined because the wax they used was for different conditions.

Hot scraping is to clean the bases and should be done with soft was. or a wax designed for this.

How waxing is for wax penetration and saturation of the bases.

Scraping (after curing) is to remove the wax that isn't penetrated or needed (excess wasted wax)

Brushing is done to remove more of the unneeded wax and polishing the wax still on the ski.

After a grind there are little hairs on the bases that should be removed. All of the above can contribute to their removal. Scraping I believe does the most for that. If you search here, you'll find many recommendations how to do that. Where I take my skis, the owners states he has a proprietary (I think - don't hold me to it) that removes the hairs so o don't have to.

I've asked the NA Rep for Dominator (he posts here too) about reheating wax when you are hot cycling the wax in. He said it is fine to do that but you need to be careful not to, as mentioned above, hot cycle any debris in and I believe that is why it is good to scrape in between hot cycles.

Like mentioned earlier, hit boxing works without scraping and brushing during the hot boxing BUT, the skis are usually well prepared for that step (I.e. Clean and hairs removed).

Some believe in going through each one of the steps in a specific order. They are in love with the process and that is perfectly fine. I tend to be too. I like tuning. Enjoy the process.

I recommend you look at what you want/need to do to your skis and make sure you are doing that.

Keep in mind that once the hairs are removed from the skis, you can't make them more removed so if you are doing something for removing them and only that, you are wasting time. That means, once the hairs are removed, as long as you can hot cycle without ironing in debris, doing that is fine.

Now, others can chime in and point out all my misinformation. I'm OK with that as I do this as part of my ski addiction therapy and not a livelihood. There are plenty of others here WAY better at this than I am.

Have fun,
Ken
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
 

good wax is $20 per 180g bar, what trips are you going on with all the money you saved?  Tremblant? New England?  hahahhaaha

Actually more like $10 per 180g bar ;)

 

http://www.racewax.com/p-353-racewax-warmcold-hydrocarbon-ski-wax-300-g-two-150-g-bars.aspx

 

Just got my skis back from the shop and I'm on cycle #6 so far, and I'll probably do another 3.  Doesn't really use up all that much wax anyways, not even 1/3 of the way into the bar.

post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
 

Actually more like $10 per 180g bar ;)

 

http://www.racewax.com/p-353-racewax-warmcold-hydrocarbon-ski-wax-300-g-two-150-g-bars.aspx

 

Just got my skis back from the shop and I'm on cycle #6 so far, and I'll probably do another 3.  Doesn't really use up all that much wax anyways, not even 1/3 of the way into the bar.

It's $20 here usually, everything is more expensive in Canada  :(

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
 

It's $20 here usually, everything is more expensive in Canada  :(


Racewax charges more when they ship it to Canada?

post #12 of 21

No, but add shipping, exchange rate, brokerage fees, provincial and fed taxes, and duty - Not worth it to order lower priced items from the states. 

 

In a Canadian ski shop, 150-180g bars of holmenkol beta, swix CH, Toko NF retail around $20.

post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
 

No, but add shipping, exchange rate, brokerage fees, provincial and fed taxes, and duty - Not worth it to order lower priced items from the states. 

 

In a Canadian ski shop, 150-180g bars of holmenkol beta, swix CH, Toko NF retail around $20.


Ah.  In a local shop I would likely pay $20 or more as well which is why I order everything online.

post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 

To be clear, the wax re-melting cycles I was asking about would be after a couple hot scrapes to remove debris and hairs.

 

Thanks for the responses.

post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
 

To be clear, the wax re-melting cycles I was asking about would be after a couple hot scrapes to remove debris and hairs.

 

Thanks for the responses.


I think that if you are able to do a lot of re-melting that you might be laying down too much wax to begin with. 

post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
 


I think that if you are able to do a lot of re-melting that you might be laying down too much wax to begin with. 


If I were to re-melt wax (after doing a couple hot scrapes to remove debris) as described, would it really matter how much wax was on the ski since the purpose of this would be to try to saturate the bases with several melt cycles before doing a single, final scrape and brush?

post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
 


If I were to re-melt wax (after doing a couple hot scrapes to remove debris) as described, would it really matter how much wax was on the ski since the purpose of this would be to try to saturate the bases with several melt cycles before doing a single, final scrape and brush?


Depends on how much it is heating up the base or if the iron is coming into direct contact with the base.   Scraping and brushing a few times isn't really a big time commitment, I think it took about an hour to do 6 cycles on mine.

post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post

Scraping and brushing a few times isn't really a big time commitment, I think it took about an hour to do 6 cycles on mine.

So, out of curiosity, you don't let the bases completely cool between wax/scrape cycles?
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post

So, out of curiosity, you don't let the bases completely cool between wax/scrape cycles?

They are cool. I wax one, lean it on the wall wax the other then scrape the first one. If they are not cool in that amount of time then you must be putting an awful lot of heat into them.
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post

Scraping and brushing a few times isn't really a big time commitment, I think it took about an hour to do 6 cycles on mine.

So, out of curiosity, you don't let the bases completely cool between wax/scrape cycles?


Fat Chance,  If you are just trying to saturate the base you don't need to cool completely.  For the final waxing before skiing you should allow total cooling over night before scraping and brushing.  The cooling time is needed for the wax molecules to properly align themselves.  Min. cool times are about 3 hours for soft waxes, 1.5 to 2 hrs. for medium, and 1 hr for hard waxes.  These cooling times are at room temps. and the skis should NOT be placed outside to cool faster. 

 

If you have a nice layer of wax and keep re-ironing that layer it fine as long as you don't overheat your base.  Like I said before, it's more a function of time than heat.  Lower iron temp. wax longer time.  You prior statement about that was correct. 

post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thanks!  I appreciate the information, you have all been very helpful.

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