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How to Rotobrush Like a Pro - Video - Page 2

post #31 of 50

Thanks Tom, I learned something.

Now I'm sure that after over 50 years of skiing there is still plenty I don't know about structure and wax for speed.

post #32 of 50

nm

post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

nm

 

You just wanted to post in this important thread.

post #34 of 50

I am pretty sure that if you ask 2 WC techs what way they do it, you will get 3 different answers! .  And depending on how competitive they are they may or my not be true....:)  

 

I have heard via a couple of former WC techs that they finish tail to tip.  They also use the same approach as L&C, so you throw the crap out behind you, not in front of you.  I have been using the roto brush tail to tip for a few years now, and been quite happy with the speed of the skis...

post #35 of 50

Guess the only time my skis have been roto-brushed it is tip to tail.  Mainly because they are done next to the start house and it is awful hard to get past the brake going tail to tip ;)

post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post

" over-polishing removes asperities from the wax layer that would otherwise act as secondary structure and reduce water suction."

I love it when you talk dirty.
Hee hee hee.

Last season I finished with a horsehair brush every time I waxed (no roto brush back then), including the very sloppy end of the season, and glided equally fast so far as I can tell. Caveat that I'm a recreational skier, so thousandths of a second matter not to me. This season I've rotobrushed with horsehair from tail to tip with no ill effect I can detect, though at least up to now it's been cold weather wax (Hot Sauce with Hertel's hardener). Just for giggles, I might try tip to tail during next week's warmup to see whether leaving "asperities" on the surface makes a perceptible difference in my gliding.

That being said, I'm already considering selling my setup and just upgrading my old rectangular brushes to ovals. I'm going to give it another try with the table lowered, which might make it less awkward, but I find it takes some attention to keep the brush level on the ski, and frankly it doesn't really seem that much faster than hand brushing because I always end up brushing out a few dull spots anyway. Also, hand brushing would be much faster than it used to be now that I remove more wax with sharper scrapers and with an upgrade to oval brushes.

Of course, I only wax two pair at a time at most, and so far I've only rotobrushed three pair of skis, so take it for what it's worth.confused.gif
post #37 of 50

I don't know how something spinning at whatever RPM it is could EVER take as much time as brushing by hand.  You must not brush as much as I do.  

post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 

I don't know how something spinning at whatever RPM it is could EVER take as much time as brushing by hand.  You must not brush as much as I do.  

sibhusky is right, Way less effort and time with Rotos!

post #39 of 50
This thread is just great, I'm not at all confused now about how to brush or which brushes are optimal.

I'm going over to that other thread to figure out which tires I should be using.
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzzo View Post

This thread is just great, I'm not at all confused now about how to brush or which brushes are optimal.

I'm going over to that other thread to figure out which tires I should be using.

Glad we could provide mass confusion!

post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

 
I don't know how something spinning at whatever RPM it is could EVER take as much time as brushing by hand.  You must not brush as much as I do.  
sibhusky is right, Way less effort and time with Rotos!
I actually agree with you. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I was concerned about wearing my structure, so I only bought a 6mm stiff horsehair rotobrush (use a fine brass oval hand-brush for pre-wax) and am careful about not using any pressure, but maybe the bristles aren't all making contact with the base and structure. I mean, it takes me two or three slow passes on each side (tips and tails being much wider than the 100mm brush) to get most of the wax off, after which I have to go back and make extra passes on the middles of the slightly concave tips and tails. Even a little pressure would cut my time by 2/3.

Another thing is that the 6mm horsehair roto brush is much stiffer than my horsehair hand brush, so maybe I can't expect the same silky finish from it.

So, is it possible that other people's "no pressure" is a little more than I assumed, and I'm holding the brush so lightly that the bristles aren't all making contact with the surface? Is it no big deal to use a little pressure with horsehair? Or is it an equipment issue--should I be using a stiff nylon first and then the horsehair? Do I need something softer than 6mm horsehair if I want a silky finish?

Suggestions & critiques would be welcome, because I'd rather not sell my little roto setup at a loss!


(BTW, I've used a small 12V Makita 1300 max RPM drill and an 18V Dewalt 2000 max RPM drill)
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

 
I don't know how something spinning at whatever RPM it is could EVER take as much time as brushing by hand.  You must not brush as much as I do.  
sibhusky is right, Way less effort and time with Rotos!
I actually agree with you. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I was concerned about wearing my structure, so I only bought a 6mm stiff horsehair rotobrush (use a fine brass oval hand-brush for pre-wax) and am careful about not using any pressure, but maybe the bristles aren't all making contact with the base and structure. I mean, it takes me two or three slow passes on each side (tips and tails being much wider than the 100mm brush) to get most of the wax off, after which I have to go back and make extra passes on the middles of the slightly concave tips and tails. Even a little pressure would cut my time by 2/3.

Another thing is that the 6mm horsehair roto brush is much stiffer than my horsehair hand brush, so maybe I can't expect the same silky finish from it.

So, is it possible that other people's "no pressure" is a little more than I assumed, and I'm holding the brush so lightly that the bristles aren't all making contact with the surface? Is it no big deal to use a little pressure with horsehair? Or is it an equipment issue--should I be using a stiff nylon first and then the horsehair? Do I need something softer than 6mm horsehair if I want a silky finish?

Suggestions & critiques would be welcome, because I'd rather not sell my little roto setup at a loss!


(BTW, I've used a small 12V Makita 1300 max RPM drill and an 18V Dewalt 2000 max RPM drill)

 

Standard rule of thumb in power tool usage is let the weight of the tool do the job. Pressing down on a tool only slows it down and possibly burn it out. 

In this case weight of tool refers to the roto-brush itself - drill motor not included. The operator's primary job is to keep the brush level and the weight of the drill motor from tilting the brush on the ski. Listen to the drill motor, the pitch (RPM) should drop just a bit but not much. Allow the brushes to do the work.

 

I believe max RPM for brass brushes is 800 RPM and 2,300 for horse hair and nylon.

The 12v Makita does not have enough guts to drive a roto-brush. Use the 18v Dewalt. 

 

I use the horse hair brush to remove what little wax is left after scraping. The nylon really give it a high shine after the horse hair.

Hope that helps.

 

Good tuning.

post #43 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

 

Standard rule of thumb in power tool usage is let the weight of the tool do the job. Pressing down on a tool only slows it down and possibly burn it out. 

In this case weight of tool refers to the roto-brush itself - drill motor not included. The operator's primary job is to keep the brush level and the weight of the drill motor from tilting the brush on the ski. Listen to the drill motor, the pitch (RPM) should drop just a bit but not much. Allow the brushes to do the work.

 

I believe max RPM for brass brushes is 800 RPM and 2,300 for horse hair and nylon.

The 12v Makita does not have enough guts to drive a roto-brush. Use the 18v Dewalt. 

 

I use the horse hair brush to remove what little wax is left after scraping. The nylon really give it a high shine after the horse hair.

Hope that helps.

 

Good tuning.


Good advice here.  I actually use a corded drill for rotobrushing - $13 from harbor freight and lighter than most cordless ones as well as more power.  

 

I use the horsehair brush for initial removal - typically only a couple of passes -  but for final finish, it is hard to beat the soft nylon....  i was going to say gives it a great shine but didn't want to set off another discussion.....:D

post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 


Good advice here.  I actually use a corded drill for rotobrushing - $13 from harbor freight and lighter than most cordless ones as well as more power.  

 

I use the horsehair brush for initial removal - typically only a couple of passes -  but for final finish, it is hard to beat the soft nylon....  i was going to say gives it a great shine but didn't want to set off another discussion.....:D

So you're entering your skis in the Concours also?:ROTF 

post #45 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post


I actually agree with you. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I was concerned about wearing my structure, so I only bought a 6mm stiff horsehair rotobrush (use a fine brass oval hand-brush for pre-wax) and am careful about not using any pressure, but maybe the bristles aren't all making contact with the base and structure. I mean, it takes me two or three slow passes on each side (tips and tails being much wider than the 100mm brush) to get most of the wax off, after which I have to go back and make extra passes on the middles of the slightly concave tips and tails. Even a little pressure would cut my time by 2/3.

Another thing is that the 6mm horsehair roto brush is much stiffer than my horsehair hand brush, so maybe I can't expect the same silky finish from it.

So, is it possible that other people's "no pressure" is a little more than I assumed, and I'm holding the brush so lightly that the bristles aren't all making contact with the surface? Is it no big deal to use a little pressure with horsehair? Or is it an equipment issue--should I be using a stiff nylon first and then the horsehair? Do I need something softer than 6mm horsehair if I want a silky finish?

Suggestions & critiques would be welcome, because I'd rather not sell my little roto setup at a loss!


(BTW, I've used a small 12V Makita 1300 max RPM drill and an 18V Dewalt 2000 max RPM drill)

Yep..........No pressure is good! Are you scraping before roto?

post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

So you're entering your skis in the Concours also?:ROTF 


only if concours means fastest to the bottom.....:beercheer:

post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Yep..........No pressure is good! Are you scraping before roto?
Youbetcha! The drywall screen scraper sharpening method works so much better that there's much less wax to brush in the first place. Someday I'll go all professional with scraper sharpening, but now that I can get most of the way there with a few dollars of drywall screen I keep thinking of better things to do with that $150.

@ScotsSkierThanks for the brush tip. Shine or no shine, it's that velvety ski surface that I'm after. Completely smooth except that you can kind of sense the structure. Yum!
post #48 of 50

Okay, this has gotten totally out of control here. 

post #49 of 50
I alternate brushes and rotobrushes after scraping well until wax is barely coming off. Have two firmness of rotobrush and three for the hand brushes, down to a soft nylon. I may over brush trying to get the high shine, it sounds like, but then it normally is cold here. I only use the brass hand brush before the waxing process to clean out the structure. Even if it's hard wax like CH4, I don't use metal then. I haven't thought about the pressure. It's a heavy drill. But I must not be wearing the base too much as I rarely get them stone ground.
post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 


only if concours means fastest to the bottom.....:beercheer:

Thumbs Up:ROTF

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