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Salomon XW Storm skis (76mm carvers) probably went to Heaven...now what?! - Page 2

post #31 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Sounds like Al wants to sell you a ski with a waist > 88 mm.

Those conditions are crappy to you because you don't have and never had a good carving ski (full camber,13 m radius, 165 cm length and waist<70 mm).

 

I reckon Al has an < 88mm ski to sell me as well, so what difference does it make what he sells me if he is making money?

 

And let's be honest, there ARE people that pick and choose what days and conditions they ski in and very few choose ultra hard days.

 

Ghost I respect your opinion but you are not getting me in an under 80mm ski because you prefer an under 70mm ski...I don't think that's for me. 

post #32 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post


Al, whose warehouse is just down the road, in the same building where my kid went to Montessori school, is going to work for his money. I can see that much.

ANYWAY, what makes you think, here in the northeast, that what conditions you WANT to ski in are the slightest bit relevant to what you actually WILL ski in? You want to ski, or you want to sit home and dream?

 

With the exception of skiing with my brother on holiday weekends because that is the only weekends he allows himself time away from his family, I plan on picking and choosing which days to ski and dreaming about skiing in good conditions in between those days.

post #33 of 54
Thread Starter 

So the much anticipated overtime-in-my-check day, also known as purchase day, is 3 days away. I have to weigh the pros and cons and decide on which of the following to get:

 

 

2014 Salomon Enduro RS 800 Ti skis

 

2013 Volkl RTM 80 skis 

 

2014 K2 Shreditor 102 skis

 

2014 Salomon Quest 105 skis

post #34 of 54

Out of those 4 get the RTM, at least you have a chance to learn to carve with the 80mm waist. It won't happen with the wider skis and you already have a Prophet 98 right. Don't bother with the 800 Ti because it has metal in it and the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 ti you had you sold because it didn't work for you  right? You can wait around and pick and choose days but if you can't time a powder day to be there at opening bell you are not going to get powder. You will get tracked out if you are lucky, your P98 will be good for fresh powder and /or tracked up powder. The RTM will treat you right on good groomer days to slight firm days again you can pick and choose. good luck

post #35 of 54
Thread Starter 

Thanks Snowbowler, I am digging this advice the best so far.

 

You are correct that the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 Ti skis were too much ski for me and I sold them, but is all skis with metal the same? According to the topsheet on my X-Wing Storm skis they had titanium in them too but I felt like that ski was perfect for me...maybe the Enduro RS 800 Ti skis are similar?

 

But it's strange, it seems like the RS 800 skis had titanium in them and the RS 800 Ti skis had 2 strips of titanium in them? So maybe they are in fact too much ski like the Magnum 8.0 Ti skis?

 

Then again, the RS 800 Ti skis were listed as intermediate through advanced and the Magnum 8.0 Ti skis were listed as expert skis. (I was a bit naive / cocky to believe they were something I could have grown into).

post #36 of 54
Thread Starter 

Oh, and I'm by no means an expert carver but I'm well on my way to having a little bit of a clue!

 

And my rocker 2 90 skis should carve well enough on all but the hardest days?

 

And even if a powder day gets tracked out fast it would still be choppier than a groomer day and something with rocker might be useful to go through the chopped up powder?

post #37 of 54
Thread Starter 
Yeah, leaning towards dropping $100 gamble on the repair to the base and edge of my X-Wing Storm skis and using them as my hard as a rock conditions ski and staying on course in getting the Salomon Quest 105 skis like I had originally planned.

Why drop good money on skis that are most useful in conditions I don't really want to ski in and most likely to bang up my skis on?
post #38 of 54
Thread Starter 
Why is it so hard here to get an actual discission going?
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post
 

Oh, and I'm by no means an expert carver but I'm well on my way to having a little bit of a clue!

 

I'd leave that one for third party validation. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post

Why is it so hard here to get an actual discussion going?

 

OK, I'll bite.  The real question is what problem are you trying to solve?  Are you trying to replace or upgrade the hard snow slot in your quiver, or are you replacing the P98 because they didn't work out as planned (which wouldn't surprise me all that much).

 

I think that repairing the Storms and skiing the bad edge as your outside edge, is a fine solution for a skier at your stage of the game.  That would be a reasonable thing to do.  As would replacement/upgrade.  You just have to decide if that is a priority and if you want to invest the cash in that direction.  If I were a skier in the east, I'd definitely prioritize something appropriate for firm conditions, as that is what you are most likely to encounter in your region and having that sort of tool makes more days "good" days. . . I think there have been good recommendations here for your level (I think that your idea of something 75-80, compliant, decent grip, easy to manage is probably a good call and will aide in your technical progression).  But repair of the Storms might be the least expensive, short-term way to get there.

 

But that doesn't really get to the rationale for the Q105.  What for?  It only makes sense if you are getting rid of the P98s because the difference in performance envelope isn't significant.  But, if you are looking at it in isolation, sure, go for it.  Paired with the Q90, the Q105 would give you an overlapping but OK 2 ski quiver for western conditions.  And you like Sollies generally and you like the QSeries of skis, etc. . .  

 

But you live in the east, enjoy skiing in the east and don't have immediate plans to ski in the west in the near future.  So it seems odd to optimize in that direction unless you are actually skiing in 6-12 depth snow regularly (which is possible, but not likely). Especially because the Q90 should be perfectly great in softer hard pack, loose stuff and even in moderate powder.

 

Back to "having a clue" . . .  my impression, watching all of these threads (and contributing here and there), is that you tend to focus your purchase decisions around the aspects of skiing about which you have least clue.  Which is too bad, because there are certainly aspects of this where by now you are "on your way . . . ."  You know that you like the feel of a light'ish monocoque ski.  You know that you like the Q90s in a broad range of conditions.  Go with that.  Ski your Q90s for 30 days this season in every condition that mountain throws at you.  After that, if you are paying attention, you'll have even more of a clue as to the strengths and limitations of that design profile.

 

In this case, however, you have chosen to focus where you have extremely limited experience, powder skiing.  And you then conclude that you "need" a "powder ski" and yet you are not considering "powder skis" - instead, you are considering adding another all-mountain type of ski.  And you already have a pretty good one (P98) in most folks estimation.  Consider why that seems a little strange to folks who have a fair bit more experience at this than you do.

 

I think that you already have what you need, even if the 90s were your only skis.  What you don't have is experience, days on the mountain, time in variable conditions and technical training and understanding.  Ski a bit more on the mountain, a bit less on the internet.  It is fun to lust after cool gear. . . after all, that is why everyone hangs out around here.  But rather than take your big check and dump it into another set of skis that may or may not meet a need, invest in more skiing (lodging, lifts, lessons), or treat your family to something cool (how about a weekend trip to the mountains?). . . and if you are really, really, really Jones'in to try the Q105, plunk down $40-50 for a demo on a day where there is some soft snow.  Consider it a cheap entertainment expense - about the same cost as two movie tickets, popcorn, soda and big box of milk duds.  If it changes your life, go buy a pair, if not, move on to the next object of desire.

 

So if you are still reading, and you want one man's practical advice, my answer is (a) repair the storms. . . or replace if you want to and are ready for an upgrade and (b) ride your Q90s to death, whenever it seems fun, every day, firm days, soft days, etc. . . .  Unless you are travelling west you have everything that you need to handle all of the likely conditions in your neighborhood this season.  And as you learned last February, you also already have everything that you need to handle 75% of days in most western locations.  And a full day on an awesome powder board is only a daily demo rate away.

 

Good luck and have fun.  You already have all the requisite tools to make that happen.

post #40 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewyM View Post


OK, I'll bite.  The real question is what problem are you trying to solve?  Are you trying to replace or upgrade the hard snow slot in your quiver, or are you replacing the P98 because they didn't work out as planned (which wouldn't surprise me all that much).

Well, until I screwed up my X-Wing Storm skis there was no dilemma, I was picking uo the Quest 105 skis...but damaging my skis threw a wrench into my plans and now I'm smack damn centered on the fence over what to do!

Honestly, I have to get more time on the Prophet 98's but this isn't about replacing those...I figured the Quest 105 would be a different enough ski to justify getting it...and more useful than the Prophet 98 in powder.

I just figured I should get something with far more rocker for those post storm days.

The Quest 105 was something I had my eyes on last year and I have found some nearly half price.

If I could find the Line Sick Day 95 skis discounted I'd prefer those but they are holding firm everywhere for $599! If I hold off on the Quest 105 and pick up the 2013 Volkl RTM 80's to replace the Storm skis I can be on the lookout for discounted Sick Day 95's later on...

Not thinking of replacing the Line Prophet 98's, figured there was some justification in getting a slightly wider and more rockered ski for snow days.
post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post
 
Not thinking of replacing the Line Prophet 98's, figured there was some justification in getting a slightly wider and more rockered ski for snow days.

 

We had a fat handful of "snow days" between Thanksgiving and Christmas, before the rain came. So much so, in fact, that coverage at Saddleback and Sugarloaf, for example, was better than it often is in the middle of the season. I believe it was the same story in northern Vermont. At least here, the large majority of ungroomed natural snow terrain was open and skiing well with good surfaces. Truthfully, how many of those soft snow days did you hit? How many times this year were you in snow so soft and deep that you honestly would have wanted more than a 98mm ski (which is already very soft-snow oriented for New England)? You don't have to tell us. You can even lie to us if you want. But tell yourself the truth if you want to maximize your skiing satisfaction. If the truthful answer is "none," then you know the answer to your own questions already. 

 

If you're going to ski on those rare good days, it doesn't happen by accident. You have to be on the qui vive way ahead of the game, ready to pounce on signs and signals from multiple weather sources and spies. Then you have to take concrete action in good time. For example, you might have to leave home a day early and stay overnight when otherwise you wouldn't, in order to be skiing in the good snow rather than getting stuck in it on the road behind plows and traffic. You can't be dependent on others and their schedules and constraints, unless they are of the same obsessed mindset and level of commitment to powder. What is your track record this year for doing that successfully?

 

If you truthfully aren't doing this stuff, none of us cares. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Many of us are in the same position. In that case, though, don't waste your own time and ours with all the fat ski blather. You already have a fat ski. Get a friendly carving ski - or repair your Storms - get in the car, and go ski in the analog world, where it counts.

post #42 of 54

the enduro would be a good choice.  I demoed it at Sunday River last season and bought some used ones to be my 'hard snow" day skis to work and play on this season.  I like them a lot.

 

It has a bit of tip rocker and a just shy of 80 waist, I have the 161 which is I think about a 13 meter radius.

 

I've tried the RTM series, having skied both the  80 and 84 and while Snowbowler makes a good point about metal and all, I think from personal experience on both the Volkl and the Salomon Enduro XT 800 (not whatever model you mentioned RS Ti?)  the Enduro was an easier ski to ski well at moderate speeds with less than expert technique.  It also didn;t want to beat you up when you got lazy.

 

EDIT the RS seems to be an even better choice for the OP than what I have (XT) and I think that it would be the better choice over the RTM 80 too. 

 

Of course there is always the WIDE option to go for too....or not....:)   


Edited by skier_j - 1/7/15 at 7:54am
post #43 of 54
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys.

qcanoe, admittedly I haven't yet had an opportunity this season to ski in post-storm snow.

And I know I will have to be ready and willing to react with foresight to actually be at the mountain on some good days (taking weekdays off or getting lucky on weekends).

Thing is, I hate the super hard icy conditions and I don't want to be out there when it is like that, which means I want to be prepared for soft conditions and better.

But I understand that what I WANT may be less realistic than what I will actually get, making the < 80mm carving ski more practical...but I am sick of settling and being practical - more joy in being prepared for those days I am looking forward to!

So, still on the fence...even though you guys make a good argument for the < 80mm ski.
post #44 of 54
Thread Starter 
Wish I could just repair my Storm skis to hold up well enough to be beaten on on those less desirable icy days, freeing up money for the skis I actually want, but a few people told me that because of the way the ski is constructed there is no guarantee that it can be repaired to hold up and perform the same.
post #45 of 54

It sounds like we have about the same level of experience, or I'm at least approaching yours. I've been on the snow about 20 times over 3 seasons and am am starting to develop some edge awareness and consciously carving turns on Catskill blues.

 

Hard to tell where you're heading, but you did mention the Rossi E80s which I was able to demo during the holiday thaw. Was at Bristol on lots of not-so-groomed loose granular; not quite the usual hardpack. Really, I don't think I've ever been on more than 2 inches of fresh snow so I'm looking at skis in the 80mm - 85mm range. And the 85s I've been on seem a little wide coming from 72mm rentals, so I'm sizing up into this range where it sounds like you've been on various widths.

 

Really enjoyed the E80s for the day, though due to conditions I didn't get to open up much on any big tracks of hard snow. My ski palette isn't well developed but they seemed to be on the damp and smooth side, maneuverable without begging me to turn and manageable around the crud and bumps. A well rounded, perdictable intermediate's ski if you haven't grown into a specific style yet. Eager to try to 84s to see if they might provide the same ease but with more room for growth. From what I've read they are a bit stiffer though I don't know if that would be a plus to a slower skier.

 

I also tried a pair of Rev 80 Pros, which were a bit easier to pivot and get around bumps, to the point of being too playful for my taste (though they may have been short at 170cm for my 170 pounds - the E80 sidecut felt fine at 168cm though). Also tried the Amphibio 82XTi, which felt like a more stable carving ski at the expense of the playfulness. If all I wanted was to learn to carve and go faster those might be the best bet of the three.

 

So that's my penny and a half review! I haven't been on anything wider than 85 so can't comment there.

post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post

Thanks guys.

qcanoe, admittedly I haven't yet had an opportunity this season to ski in post-storm snow.

And I know I will have to be ready and willing to react with foresight to actually be at the mountain on some good days (taking weekdays off or getting lucky on weekends).

Thing is, I hate the super hard icy conditions and I don't want to be out there when it is like that, which means I want to be prepared for soft conditions and better.

But I understand that what I WANT may be less realistic than what I will actually get, making the < 80mm carving ski more practical...but I am sick of settling and being practical - more joy in being prepared for those days I am looking forward to!

So, still on the fence...even though you guys make a good argument for the < 80mm ski.

About the only way around that is to move closer to better snow. I am 15 minutes from the Middlebury Snowbowl a 1000'  vert mt. 45-55min from Kton , MRG/ Sugarbush. I ski about 70-80 days per year, out of those days maybe 6-12 I hit what to me is decent powder 6"+. Out of those few days maybe 2-3 times per year I have hit 18-30" storms. The rest of the days groomer, hardpack, firm, slush, ice, mashed potatos, frozen crud, filling rattling junk, mank, breakable crust etc. If you are going to do any skiing on the east coast if you are lucky you can get some good groomed snow at most every ski area around. Getting powder and soft snow is hard work as qcanoe pointed out. When I mean moving closer to better snow I'm not really talking about the Northeast, the better snow day in day out will be out west SLC, Den, Montana etc. Get a groomer ski, learn to carve, learn to ski ice bumps, packed out tree runs and any and all snow conditions I mentioned and you will become a skier and find that it is great to be out and skiing on anything compared to working at least in my experience.

post #47 of 54
Thread Starter 
Alright, found a shop with last years Salomon Enduro RS 800 Ti skis in a 170 length for $395, and a shop that has the 2013 Volkl RTM 80 skis for $465, both with system bindings.

Of the two the Salomons are probably the safest bet for being most appropriate for me.

Maybe I'll pull the trigger on these now and see how big of a tax refund I get and then look at getting a one-zero-something ski!

$!#%, put off again it looks like.
post #48 of 54
Thread Starter 
For the few that are interested...actually found a place that had Salomon Enduro RS 800 Ti skis in a 170 length left over from last year. $395 brand new. Did the 2.5 hour drive today to pick them up and have the bindings adjusted to my boots. I think I will be very happy with these as my all mountain carvers over the next few years.

Hopefully no other crises to alter my plans for picking up a one-oh-something ski next when I come into a few bucks!
post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post

For the few that are interested...actually found a place that had Salomon Enduro RS 800 Ti skis in a 170 length left over from last year. $395 brand new. Did the 2.5 hour drive today to pick them up and have the bindings adjusted to my boots. I think I will be very happy with these as my all mountain carvers over the next few years.

Hopefully no other crises to alter my plans for picking up a one-oh-something ski next when I come into a few bucks!

when you ski those the first time....or maybe the 5th time you are then going to forget about the xw-storms and wonder why you ever thought they were a good ski.  Not so much that the 800 Ti is that much better,,,,although it will be, but between then (Storm) and now (enduro) good things have happened in intermediate ski design.  You will also find that they will fill the bill for probably 8 to 9  out of 10 of your ski days every season until they wear out.  Unless you have a magical re-incarnation as a ski bum in Alta/snowbird/copper/canyons/Jackson hole/stowe/Squaw/Vail....you get the drift eh?

post #50 of 54

I tried the RTM 80 a few weeks ago at Perfect North and loved them. I'm a heavy intermediate, and my size puts me in more advanced skis (for stiffness) than my skills.

 

They were very stable, had great edge grip, and felt fantastic. They wanted to go fast and wanted to make big turns, but also worked fine in slower, tighter turns. In reviews, a common complaint is that they feel too dead, but they were so much better than anything else I tried that I just had big grin on my face the whole time.

 

To be fair, I was comparing them to other skis (including mine) that weren't a good fit for me, and perhaps one pair that "should" have been good but was so bad that I suspect the edges desperately needed a tune.

 

I'm still debating whether to take a chance on the stiffer RTM 81 or just buy the RTM 80 and call it a day.

 

I won't claim that my comments should be given much weight, but fwiw ....

post #51 of 54

What I'm used to is overloading a rocker/camber/rocker ski. I've been hunting for a suitably stiff cambered ski for better edge grip, maybe with a little tip rocker. I wasn't familiar with the RTM series, and frankly wouldn't have been interested if I had known about the so-called "full rocker". Well, regardless of how they do it, it works, at least for me.

post #52 of 54
Thread Starter 

Actually, the deciding factors for me choosing the Salomon skis over the Volkl RTM skis were

 

1) the Volkls are listed as an advanced to expert ski (despite a few people telling me that intermediates would do fine with these skis) and I've already burned myself once or twice purchasing expert skis (despite not losing any money on them - bought them cheap as pro deals through vendor at REI and sold them for what I paid for them).

 

2) I have liked all intermediate Salomon skis I have tried.

 

and

 

3) Other skiers have complained about the camber-less RTM skis and made me a little wary.

 

Will be skiing my new Salomons on Saturday at Killington, looking forward to it!

post #53 of 54
Personally, I think the RTM 80 is very accessible to an intermediate, and suspect that most who don't like it are advanced or expert. I didn't find it nearly as pivoty as other skis. Some may not like that, but I loved it. They felt engaged, on rails.

My main concerns are that I might soon wish I got the stiffer RTM 81 (for my size), and whether the ski's preference for big fast turns was appropriate for where I want to ski. They do fine slow and tight, they just love big and fast. I'm still pondering.

You said you've bought too advanced before. I did the opposite - I bought skis that were way too short, soft, and beginner-oriented (too close to what the rental guy had been giving me). It took about two days to outgrow them.

Not debating your choice, just thinking out loud. I haven't decided yet myself.
post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post



Not so zoomed in.

 

I know giving you advice is kind of like banging one's head against the wall as a competitive sport, but...

 

For a blowout, that doesn't look too bad and should be fixable.  Hell, I skied a blowout worse than that (sidewall was broken as well  and the edge was crunched upwards AND out) for most of a season and couldn't tell which ski had the blowout on the snow. This was in 2011-2012 when we really didn't have a winter and I didn't have any other hard-snow skis that I could stand.

 

Lets get back to reality here. You ski ~ten times a season. You have a ton of skis and these skis will only be on the snow a few times a season. Money is tight. Get the skis repaired, and chances are excellent that A) you can't tell you munched them and B) they give you no problems for years in their sparing use and C) when you sell them for what you paid the sucker won't even realize they were damaged to this extent.

 

Obviously you are looking for an excuse to continue your ski buying spree that looks more than a crack addiction than something that furthers a hobby (do you ever have to tell people you can stop buying skis whenever you want?), but those skis don't look dead to me.

 

Buying a 110 waist ski for East Coast powder when you already own a 90 and 98 waist ski is ridiculous. You need to LEARN to ski powder, and its not a hard thing. Save the money and take a lesson on the right day. 1 day with somebody who can walk you through the mechanics, and bingo, your 98 waist ski will be money on powder days. Or you can just go ahead and buy 3 more skis and still suck at skiing 3D snow.  The ski is not going to help here. 

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