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Ski bindings

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

I'm returning to skiing after a 10 year hiatus so that I can join my 5 year old on the slopes.  I bought a pair of skis and bindings off of Craig;s list and have been told by local ski shops that they can't work on the bindings because they are too old.  Is anyone familiar with this?  I contacted the woman who sold them to me and she said that she has been having them adjusted yearly without and problem and had never heard of such a thing.  I didn't spend much on the skis but I was wondering what your opinion is.

post #2 of 22

Take a look at the following thread:

http://www.epicski.com/t/100465/what-is-an-indemnified-binding

 

Then have a look at (a close approximation of) the 2014-15 Indemnified Ski Binding List at:

http://www.gondyline.com/indemnified.php

 

If your binding isn't on the list then probably out of luck.
 

PS What else would you expect the seller to say ?

post #3 of 22
She had been adjusting them yearly ten years ago....
post #4 of 22

post some pictures and people here will help

post #5 of 22

Or just the make and model of the binding. It's almost always written somewhere on the binding. Or maybe always.

post #6 of 22
Waste of time, money and effort - as you are already discovering - trying to make garage sale junk work. Also likely to cramp your enjoyment and possibly even safety. Figure on spending a hundred bucks or more on a pair of used skis and bindings less than five or six years old, and another fifty to have them tuned adjusted and checked. Price of admission. My two cents.
post #7 of 22
Don't buy a used binding unless you can find a binding that looks like it new online or in store. colors may differ, but the shape should be similar.
post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Waste of time, money and effort - as you are already discovering - trying to make garage sale junk work. Also likely to cramp your enjoyment and possibly even safety. Figure on spending a hundred bucks or more on a pair of used skis and bindings less than five or six years old, and another fifty to have them tuned adjusted and checked. Price of admission. My two cents.

QFT. I'm guessing that you bought ten year old skis because you think it'll be hard to deal with new ski technology, or have had trouble finding something as narrow as you used to ski, or maybe just can't imagine skiing on anything else than what used to be your favorite ski. But change can be good, and although I've only been skiing for four years, I hear that a lot of the change is for the better, whether you're talking carvers or fatties.

My suggestion is to bare your soul here. Tell people how you used to ski, which skis you've used (believe me, there are older dogs than you around here!), where you're going to be skiing this season, what kind of terrain you like, etc., etc., along with your height and weight, and you'll get plenty of suggestions for skis to demo--or, if you just want something to start with, something that you're likely to enjoy.
post #9 of 22

or do so at the ski shops that you visited.  if you've got a tight budget, they may sell you something used if they run a ski-swap, or something out of their rental fleet.

post #10 of 22

Did you also buy boots off Craigslist?:nono:

post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

She had been adjusting them yearly ten years ago....

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post


QFT. I'm guessing that you bought ten year old skis because ....

:dunno

 

For the record I don't see anything in the original post saying the gear is ten years old.  The post says the skier is coming back from a ten year hiatus and recently bought gear off craigslist.  The circumstances seem to imply that the binding is no longer indemnified.  But, that means it could be even older... or not quite as old..

 

Post a photo of the binding and see what the shop people here think about it.  Some older models are still usable beyond indemnification.  You can sometimes have a GOOD shop adjust a binding that is not indemnified and just sign a waiver stating that you are aware it failed visual inspection... or if you slip the tech a 6 pack of their favorite beer sometimes and just sign a waiver stating that you are aware it failed visual inspection..

 

It doesn't look good, the gear is likely not that good or potentially unsafe, but there may still be some hope it would be OK to putter around the green slopes with your kid for an hour here and there.

 

Be prepared to catch the skiing bug again and want better gear very soon.  Start with good boots that are fitted  by a good shop then try some newer skis before deciding on what to buy.

post #12 of 22

To the OP--to explain. Binding companies put out a list each year of their indemnified bindings. This includes current bindings and a lot of discontinued bindings. Indemnified means that if the shop is sued because someone is hurt and blames the shop and the binding, the binding company will pay to defend the lawsuit and any judgement or settlement. When a binding gets old enough it goes off the list.  It may or may not still be safe to use but most shops don't want the legal risk of working on them. Why should they take the risk, when they can sell you a new binding.?

So ignore the insults and tell us what binding you have and we can look it up, or you can.

Another thing that can arise is that the binding might be on the list but looks worn or damaged.Also, the binding can look ok but when it is mounted and the boot is put in the binding and the binding is tested to see how much force is required to release the binding, the amount of force is too high or too low. Depending on how bad the shop may adjust the settings on the binding to compensate or it may say that the binding is too far out of spec to use safely.

 

As far as old gear in general, unless it is seriously damaged or worn out, it should be possible to have just as much fun on the old gear as the orginal owner had when it was new. (Unless your feet are very close in size and shape to the original owner's used boots are usually a bad idea, besides, they're nasty.) Sure new gear is nice; not everyone can afford it, and to belittle someone who wants to save money on gear is poor form IMO.

post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

She had been adjusting them yearly ten years ago....

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post


QFT. I'm guessing that you bought ten year old skis because ....

:dunno

 

For the record I don't see anything in the original post saying the gear is ten years old.  The post says the skier is coming back from a ten year hiatus and recently bought gear off craigslist.  The circumstances seem to imply that the binding is no longer indemnified.  But, that means it could be even older... or not quite as old..

 

Post a photo of the binding and see what the shop people here think about it.  Some older models are still usable beyond indemnification.  You can sometimes have a GOOD shop adjust a binding that is not indemnified and just sign a waiver stating that you are aware it failed visual inspection... or if you slip the tech a 6 pack of their favorite beer sometimes and just sign a waiver stating that you are aware it failed visual inspection..

 

It doesn't look good, the gear is likely not that good or potentially unsafe, but there may still be some hope it would be OK to putter around the green slopes with your kid for an hour here and there.

 

Be prepared to catch the skiing bug again and want better gear very soon.  Start with good boots that are fitted  by a good shop then try some newer skis before deciding on what to buy.

 

The OP may have fled with a "holy cow, what did I step in?" face.

 

Anyway, crgildart and some others, Yes. Of course. It is possible that "Fun Ski" scored a deal on a really nice perfectly good pair of skis and bindings on Craigslist, and just happened to get the wrong wrench in the wrong shop on the wrong day, who didn't feel like taking in any more orders or being nice to people anymore. That absolutely does happen.

 

But the rest of us are going with the odds, which are that this is NOT what happened. I don't work in a ski shop, and never have (though I have worked in bike shops). However, I've spent enough time at ski swaps and similar venues to be all too familiar with exactly how this tends to go. Others are, too, no doubt, and this is informing the commentary. Guy walks into the ski swap with a pair of twelve-year-old skis that have been sitting year round in a humid, salty New England garage since 2008.

 

Submitter: "How much do you think I should be able to get for these?"

Guy behind desk: "Twenty bucks."

Submitter: "I should be able to get at least one fifty for these. They're parabolics! I think I paid over five hundred a few years ago when I bought them!"

Guy behind desk: "In 2001."

Submitter: "Huh?"

Guy behind desk: "When you bought them, in 2001."

Submitter: "What do you mean? They're only five or six years old."

Guy behind desk: "Nope. They're from the 2001-2 model year. You probably bought them in 2001, if they were new. They were probably five or six years old last time you skied on them, yes."

Submitter: [thinks guy behind desk is an idiot] "Okay, please mark them at $99.00."

 

epilogue: They don't sell.

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Don't buy a used binding unless you can find a binding that looks like it new online or in store. colors may differ, but the shape should be similar.

Be careful here, Marker M10 or even M12's look a lot like an old M41, heel is identical design but it is still 15+ years old. Look Pivots from 20 years also look like new ones. It is the plastics and age that take a binding off the list. Even 25 year old Salomon 957E's look like a new Sth steel but are not indemnified, would I ski some of these older bindings, sure but I know what to look for, the average consumer does not. 

post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Don't buy a used binding unless you can find a binding that looks like it new online or in store. colors may differ, but the shape should be similar.

 

I'm going to guess that most casual skiers think that all bindings have had a "similar" shape since release bindings were invented.  There's the end you put your toes into and there's the end that you stomp your heel on.  When you do that, a little lever that you eventually stab with your pole comes up.  Game, set, match, done.

post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Be careful here, Marker M10 or even M12's look a lot like an old M41, heel is identical design but it is still 15+ years old. Look Pivots from 20 years also look like new ones. It is the plastics and age that take a binding off the list. Even 25 year old Salomon 957E's look like a new Sth steel but are not indemnified, would I ski some of these older bindings, sure but I know what to look for, the average consumer does not. 

Fair enough.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Don't buy a used binding unless you can find a binding that looks like it new online or in store. colors may differ, but the shape should be similar.

 

I'm going to guess that most casual skiers think that all bindings have had a "similar" shape since release bindings were invented.  There's the end you put your toes into and there's the end that you stomp your heel on.  When you do that, a little lever that you eventually stab with your pole comes up.  Game, set, match, done.

Not necessarily. People have been known to put the toes into the heel binding. They don't work as well that way.

post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

 

Submitter: "How much do you think I should be able to get for these?"

Guy behind desk: "Twenty bucks."

Submitter: "I should be able to get at least one fifty for these. They're parabolics! I think I paid over five hundred a few years ago when I bought them!"

Guy behind desk: "In 2001."

Submitter: "Huh?"

Guy behind desk: "When you bought them, in 2001."

Submitter: "What do you mean? They're only five or six years old."

Guy behind desk: "Nope. They're from the 2001-2 model year. You probably bought them in 2001, if they were new. They were probably five or six years old last time you skied on them, yes."

Submitter: [thinks guy behind desk is an idiot] "Okay, please mark them at $99.00."

 

epilogue: They don't sell.

 

I think this is more common for craigslist than ski swaps. Everything on craiglist is "paid $800 three seasons ago" [straight skis inclusive] and $150+.

 

At our local ski swap, I think people get informed better because check in is done in a big line and the rest of the line will also validate the age and worth of the equipment. I see very few comically overpriced old skis.

 

I do see a ton of comically overpriced 2 year old skis. Skis that would sell brand new at the end of the season for $350-$400, and the swap is full of 2-3 year old used models that people want $6-800 for.  Do these people think they are the only ones that bought that ski on sale for less than MSRP, so they can sell the new ski for what they paid? :rolleyes

post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

I think this is more common for craigslist than ski swaps.

 

Agree. (I decided the dialog was a good way to communicate the basic point, and it fit better with the ski swap setting.)

post #20 of 22

If the reader found this thread, they can find the indemnified list and the advice should be "Don't buy a binding that isn't on the list."

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

If the reader found this thread, they can find the indemnified list and the advice should be "Don't buy a binding that isn't on the list."


Not that easy for someone that isn't familiar with bindings and model numbers of bindings looking at a Craigslist ad and being able to determine the correct binding manufacture and model number as it would appear on that indemnified list. 

 

Advice should be if you care about safety buy new or at least from a reputable shop if used.  Since the purchase is already made the only way to possibly salvage it is to have a tech take a look, which they did.  Last resort is to have someone here look at a photo and see if it's one of the ludite bindings that is still usually OK and have the shop adjust it signing the failed visual inspection waiver.

post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

If the reader found this thread, they can find the indemnified list and the advice should be "Don't buy a binding that isn't on the list."


Not that easy for someone that isn't familiar with bindings and model numbers of bindings looking at a Craigslist ad and being able to determine the correct binding manufacture and model number as it would appear on that indemnified list. 

 

Advice should be if you care about safety buy new or at least from a reputable shop if used.  Since the purchase is already made the only way to possibly salvage it is to have a tech take a look, which they did.  Last resort is to have someone here look at a photo and see if it's one of the ludite bindings that is still usually OK and have the shop adjust it signing the failed visual inspection waiver.

Not easy for us in shops either. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about bindings and how old they are..I sometimes still have to ask another set of eyes to look at the list with me. There are a few bindings that I will let though and fail visual, but those tend to be all metal Salomon drivers and all metal Look Pivots. The Salomons we will update with new Sth16 AFD's and wide brakes got about $50.00, Look's aren't as inexpensive in their their brake assemblies are significantly more. 

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