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stivoting on ice - hurmm? - Page 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoritz

Hmm...if you look at a ski racers trajectory in two components, down the hill and across the hill, it becomes obvious what's going on.  A ski racer wants to maximize the down the hill velocity to get to the finish line in as short a time as possible.  But he/she has to get around the gates so across the hill the trajectory is accelerating side to side.  After going around a gate the skier has to slow his/her side cross slope velocity to zero then accelerate the other direction.

A stivot in the hands of the pro skier maximizes the lateral deceleration while minimizing forward deceleration.  When the racer reaches the gate the skis are aligned with the velocity vector and the edges set just like you would do at the top of a turn and the skis start to carve resulting in rapid acceleration across the slope the other way.

The key here is the skis have to be aligned with the direction of travel across the snow, or at least close to it, before setting the edge.  If not then the resulting skid will bleed off some of the velocity down the hill and the skier will lose time.  Watch the videos very carefully and you will see the while in the stivot the skis are pointed either down the fall line or slightly toward the next gate.  Skidding with skis in this orientation does not bleed off downhill speed and can even result in some downhill acceleration.

Just an engineer's perspective.

Step back a year and compare the speeds of the carve and the spivot. Carve was faster. This indicates that the spivot scrubs speed each and every turn. Today with the course set to disadvantage carving spivot is faster. This only indicates that a spivot works very well as a compromise to make the turn when it can't be carved.

Your right OSS.  A skier will want to conserve momentum, just redirect it to the new course.  Any sideways motion with a skid will reduce the magnitude of the momentum and therefore negatively effect speed.  I was wrong in my analysis.  Carve when you have room, stivot when you don't.

Still, do you agree that the skier has to align the skis with the direction of movement before engaging the edges if they want to carve the turn from that point on?

Originally Posted by Metaphor_
Can anyone comment on why this tactic is uncommon in teaching circles? Transitions are often (not always) developed with one or more of these tactics:

• flex the old outside leg
• roll the ankle/knee
• keep turning the skis through the end of the turn until the mass moves downhill to release the skis

The tactics above don't necessarily ensure a clean top of the turn... whereas the ILE approach starts before the transition and creates early edge engagement (therefore a clean top of the arc). I've done a lot of the "up and over" or "get over it" drill every ski day and it's really helped my high performance skiing - not sure why this tactic isn't more common or part of, say, the CSIA manual.

I am getting all kinds of advice in PSIA-influenced training sessions to use the inside leg extension (ILE) to start new turns.  So I hear it often.    ILE works very well, as long as you already have the outside leg relaxing/flexing in place (OLR).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoritz

Your right OSS.  A skier will want to conserve momentum, just redirect it to the new course.  Any sideways motion with a skid will reduce the magnitude of the momentum and therefore negatively effect speed.  I was wrong in my analysis.  Carve when you have room, stivot when you don't.

Still, do you agree that the skier has to align the skis with the direction of movement before engaging the edges if they want to carve the turn from that point on?

Not sure of the best engagement point, I think this one that falls under if it works for you don't mess with it. .

BTW I think the spivot is the step turn of yesteryear. Watching Ligetys run at Beavercreek it looks like he is starting to figuring out the tighter courses, be very interesting to see if, how and when he does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier

Not sure of the best engagement point,
3.44 works for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier

BTW I think the spivot is the step turn of yesteryear. Watching Ligetys run at Beavercreek it looks like he is starting to figuring out the tighter courses, be very interesting to see if, how and when he does.
Oh crap - we need a "save the stivot" action or these threads will dry out soon enough! And we'll run out of smart comebacks. Can someone please talk to Ligety about this worthy greater good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoritz

Still, do you agree that the skier has to align the skis with the direction of movement before engaging the edges if they want to carve the turn from that point on?
the direction of movement the skis is to always follow the tips, so my skis are always aligned with that as long as I don't push them tails out instead of just bending the snot out of them to change where them tips are pointed, eh?. Not sure about yours...?

Yes, you need to engage the edges with 1-100% of available pressure if you want them to carve!

Cheers

Did you guys watch the Ladies Combined this week? I was pretty impressed by Lara Guts 50 mph air stivot in the downhill part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic

Did you guys watch the Ladies Combined this week? I was pretty impressed by Lara Guts 50 mph air stivot in the downhill part.