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Transition Poll

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Which one is correct and why:

 

post #2 of 20
The red one. smile.gif
post #3 of 20

Both. Because.

post #4 of 20

The easy answer is both. But the skier shown above is running gates-so I vote for the first one.

post #5 of 20

Who won? (I realize that these appear to be training runs, since the skiers are not wearing race bibs or numbers.)

 

If the frames are equally spaced in time, then the second skier appears to be going faster, as he is further through the left turn in the final frame.

 

---

 

Clearly, there is no single universally correct movement pattern in this or pretty much any other aspect of ski technique. In real skiing, as opposed to "doing drills," the mountain, not the conscious mind, determines the appropriate technique at any given moment. In other words, Intent dictates technique. Technique serves a purpose--it does not stand alone--and the purpose is the only measure of the "correctness" of the technique.

 

Extension in the transition and flexion or retraction in the transition serve different purposes, and they represent a spectrum of possibilities, rather than an "either-or." Great skiing involves mastering not only the extremes of the spectrum, but every possibility in between. Athletic mastery of skiing further involves applying the "best" variation in the spectrum, reflexively (as opposed to consciously), according to the specific needs and circumstance of the moment.

 

We can leave the ensuing argument to those who do not understand this principle!

 

Best regards,

Bob

post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 

You are doing fine guys... keep on guessing :)

post #7 of 20
Top one. He's flexed.
post #8 of 20

tdk, is that you, demoing each type intentionally?

post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
 

tdk, is that you, demoing each type intentionally?

 

... and if it is, you're both right!

post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 

Rick, no, that is not me even if the gear fits pretty much on the dime. But you are darn close to debunking this mystery....

post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post
 

Who won? (I realize that these appear to be training runs, since the skiers are not wearing race bibs or numbers.)

 

If the frames are equally spaced in time, then the second skier appears to be going faster, as he is further through the left turn in the final frame.

 

---

 

Clearly, there is no single universally correct movement pattern in this or pretty much any other aspect of ski technique. In real skiing, as opposed to "doing drills," the mountain, not the conscious mind, determines the appropriate technique at any given moment. In other words, Intent dictates technique. Technique serves a purpose--it does not stand alone--and the purpose is the only measure of the "correctness" of the technique.

 

Extension in the transition and flexion or retraction in the transition serve different purposes, and they represent a spectrum of possibilities, rather than an "either-or." Great skiing involves mastering not only the extremes of the spectrum, but every possibility in between. Athletic mastery of skiing further involves applying the "best" variation in the spectrum, reflexively (as opposed to consciously), according to the specific needs and circumstance of the moment.

 

We can leave the ensuing argument to those who do not understand this principle!

 

Best regards,

Bob

 

Bob, you did not answer the question directly but did indirectly. Great posting.

post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 

Ok, here we go. Its the same guy with the frames taken from two almost consequetive turns. I dont know the skier but he is probably a top FIS skier training. So if he used two totally different approaches in the same run, what does that tell us? Furthermore, it would be very interesting to know which transition type he used the most.....

post #13 of 20
Quote:
So if he used two totally different approaches in the same run, what does that tell us? 

 

It tells us good skiers are not locked into one transition type.  Don't let anyone tell you different, people.  

 

The reason for the differing transitions here looks like it might be terrain based. 


Edited by Rick - 12/20/14 at 1:12pm
post #14 of 20
In the second picture the skier performs an aggressive up unweighting and simultaneously throws the arms out for greater rotational stability. I'm guessing that the turn after the transition in the second picture was not a pure carved turn but involved a fair bit of rotary input. Maybe the gates were closer together for the second picture? It's hard to tell. But I don't think terrain is the issue. The skier is not down/up unweighting to even out the terrain. Or if they are trying they are not succeeding. Look at the relative position of the head in each series.
post #15 of 20
Maybe the course set?
post #16 of 20
Looks like indoor skiing. Course is very rough, set through bumps. Gotsta keep contact with the snow and manage pressure.

Razie, if you see this, you should set your kids some brushies in bumps.
post #17 of 20
IMO the bumps/ruts are from previous reset courses.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

IMO the bumps/ruts are from previous reset courses.

However they got there, they is what they is.
post #19 of 20

I suspect that the top picture has a course set with very little vertical seperation between the gates and the bottom picture has a set with much more vertical seperation between them.  Both are correct because, as Bob B. says, the intent of what the skier is trying to accomplish is different between the two.  In the top, the skier has to very quickly move the feet from one side to the other and does not have the time to raise the upper body up before the second turn.  A very quick transition.  In the bottom, he has much more time in between turns and can afford to let the upper body rise in between them.  The whole transition is a lot longer and slower.

post #20 of 20

Flawed poll :D

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