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Need help figuring out if I'm mounted right on my Automatics

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

I'm working on getting ready for the season here in Lofoten, and I'm having some trouble figuring out if my bindings are where they should be. I have a beautiful pair of 2013 atomic automatics,186cm, with dynafit tlt radical ft 110 bindings (skin to ski, no lifts around here).

 

How can I tell if they are on the center or team line, or too far back or too far forward compared to atomics recommendations? I've spent some time rummaging through the internet, but I can't find any good documentation on this. They feel a bit catchy in uneven conditions, and I'm wondering if moving my mounting point can improve the performance. I can see there's a small line in the window of the binding, but I have no idea what the line indicates. Any tips on how I can figure out exactly where I'm mounted?

 

 

If someone with experience with this ski and binding could give me some advice I'd be a very happy man.

 

 

Markus

Lofoten islands, Norway

post #2 of 18

im the last person to comment on a touring set up, but wouldnt the center mark on the boot line up with the mounting line on the ski? Be it Team/Center whatever?

post #3 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC68 View Post
 

im the last person to comment on a touring set up, but wouldnt the center mark on the boot line up with the mounting line on the ski? Be it Team/Center whatever?

it should, put the boots on the bindings and check what WC68 is saying, if you can't see the mark on the skis because of the bindings plate then I think you need to get the correct measurements from the tip and check.

 

any reason you think they are not in the right place?

post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC68 View Post
 

im the last person to comment on a touring set up, but wouldnt the center mark on the boot line up with the mounting line on the ski? Be it Team/Center whatever?

 

The second picture in the original post show a line on the ski, visible through a hole in the binding. I've measured the length of the ski, and calculated that this line is about 10,5 cm behind the true center of the ski. I guess the line marks the team line or factory recommendation. The center of my boot, marked with a line under the boot, is 3,4 cm in front of this line. I'm looking for more stability for charging and better float in the powder, so wouldn't moving the binding 3,5-5,5 cm backwards on the ski be more suited for me? I also feel that my center of gravity is too far ahead of the center - probably because of my skiiing style and the boot that is pretty angled, so moving the binding backwards makes sense to me. Is my logic faulty?

post #5 of 18

Mounting Line from tail of the ski on Automatic 186cm  is 82.5 cm. I assume this would be boot center, (the point they use to set the center of the jig).   Normal mount would put your bootsole center mark lined up with this line (82.50 CM from tail) Then you can tell if you are ahead or behind this point!

 

Most Atomics are mounted quite far back compared  other skis. Although your experience may differ with the shop rat that mounted them. 

post #6 of 18

My Automatics are also 186, 1 year newer. If the markings haven't changed that's not the factory line. The factory line is longer and says Factory along the front of the line and Line along the back of the line. There are also shorter lines for + and - 1, 2, and 3. The numbers are off to the side of the line and would be covered by the binding plate in your picture. The line you see is one of the + or - lines--no way to tell which without taking off the binding, so you can't go by that line. The factory line on my skis is 32 1/8" from the tail of the ski--that is, I hooked the dumb end of a measuring tape over tail of the ski and measured the mark with the tape pulled straight, not following the tail rocker. 

post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

My Automatics are also 186, 1 year newer. If the markings haven't changed that's not the factory line. The factory line is longer and says Factory along the front of the line and Line along the back of the line. There are also shorter lines for + and - 1, 2, and 3. The numbers are off to the side of the line and would be covered by the binding plate in your picture. The line you see is one of the + or - lines--no way to tell which without taking off the binding, so you can't go by that line. The factory line on my skis is 32 1/8" from the tail of the ski--that is, I hooked the dumb end of a measuring tape over tail of the ski and measured the mark with the tape pulled straight, not following the tail rocker. 

82.50cm = 32.480315 inches so closer to 32.5 than 32 1/8

post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

My Automatics are also 186, 1 year newer. If the markings haven't changed that's not the factory line. The factory line is longer and says Factory along the front of the line and Line along the back of the line. There are also shorter lines for + and - 1, 2, and 3. The numbers are off to the side of the line and would be covered by the binding plate in your picture. The line you see is one of the + or - lines--no way to tell which without taking off the binding, so you can't go by that line. The factory line on my skis is 32 1/8" from the tail of the ski--that is, I hooked the dumb end of a measuring tape over tail of the ski and measured the mark with the tape pulled straight, not following the tail rocker. 

82.50cm = 32.480315 inches so closer to 32.5 than 32 1/8

I'm going by measuring my skis. What are you going by and is your measurement straight pull?  And could it change year by year?

post #9 of 18

This shot gives you the best view of what's under your binding.  Zoom in on the image and you'll see what Atomicman is talking about - a central line with smaller lines (in front and behind) for -1, 2 and 3 etc.

 

http://www.rasc.ru/gear/skis/images/2013/atomic/automatic-0.jpeg

 

Just looking at the topsheet patterns in the above photo, and comparing with your own close-up shot, the line showing in your binding window seems to be the rearmost line (or close to it).  Having said that, your mounting point is by reference to the mid-sole point of your boots, as mentioned above.  You say the mid-sole point of your boot is 34mm in front of the line in the window, so you're going to be mounted closer to the central line on the ski.

 

Really serious accuracy would mean working with factory recommended measurements, as the placement of topsheets can be out by a small amount on any particular pair of skis.

 

As a general rule mounting a little further aft (within reason) will improve stability and float, so you're correct in that regard.  Opinions vary but I can certainly tell the difference in how a ski feels when I move 15mm fore / aft using the in-built adjustment on a Tyrolia Railflex II binding.

 

Best of luck.

post #10 of 18
Although I'm sure Atomic is much more standardized and consistent than Moment, I got completely confused about where to mount on a pair of Bibbys I bought .
The markings on the sides made no sense and added to the confusion.
I got the answer on where to mount from a TGR thread from some helpful people there, but the marks on the particular skis I had were in a different position than previous models it seemed ( special edition tops sheet).
What I did know is where the bindings were recommended to be mounted in relation to Cord Center. I measured and remeasured, and then remeasured again and made damn sure the guy doing the mount knew what I wanted.
Not sure if this helps, but I feel your pain and the comment about variations in markings is legit, albeit the marks on the Bibby were on the side not the topsheet
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyrmster View Post Any tips on how I can figure out exactly where I'm mounted?

For reelz???  http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/232898-PSA-Mount-your-own-fucking-skis?highlight=mount+your+own+skis

 

And if you need some input where to mount  http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/230485-Atomic-Automatic-new-ski-designed-by-Sage-Dana-for-2012-13?highlight=atomic+Automatic

 

I would suggest you go 2cm forward of the Factory or Team line.

post #12 of 18

yeah, trying to figure out where to mount them too. just bought the 2015s.

post #13 of 18

FWIW the Blister review had them at 0.5 back of the line--which basically means on the line--and they liked them there. Different skiers with different bodies and abilities and styles will have different preferences on mount point. For skiers who have experimented with different mount points and know what they prefer it makes sense to mount off the line. For most of us, mounting on the line makes sense. The companies do try to figure out where the best mounting point is for most skiers--if they're capable of designing a good ski, they are capable of figuring out where to mount it. What doesn't make sense is mounting off the line based on the recommendation of someone on a forum who you've never seen ski and who's never seen you ski. 

post #14 of 18

There are a few lines to choose from meaning "on the line" might need a little clarification.  The Blister guys were skiing them 0.5cm behind the Atomic Team line.

post #15 of 18

Line is generally understood to mean the factory recommended line. Some skis have additional lines in front of and in back of the factory (team) line. Most don't. 

Worth adding that someone who does tricks or ride switch will usually mount in front of the line. But this is epicski. We only go in one direction.

post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

I'm going by measuring my skis. What are you going by and is your measurement straight pull?  And could it change year by year?

Out of the Atomic Tech Manual!

post #17 of 18

I mounted my 2015s today at +1

post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

I'm going by measuring my skis. What are you going by and is your measurement straight pull?  And could it change year by year?

Out of the Atomic Tech Manual!

That's what I figured.  So the line on my skis is about a cm back from the spec. And of course after my tech mounted them I never checked to see how accurate the mount is or whether he went by the factory spec or the line. I just skied them and they're fine. BTW--I suspect that most techs, even if they know what the actual measurement is, will mount on the line even if it's off, to avoid customer complaints.

 

Is the manual measurement straight pull? I assume so. 

 

Edit--went back and checked. Mounted on line. Straight pull or along the surface only changes the measurement 1/8 inch so I guess how it's measured is moot. I would have thought a bigger difference. I wonder if Atomic changed the spec in the manual based on feedback after the skis had already been manufactured with the older specs. 


Edited by oldgoat - 12/23/14 at 7:56pm
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